Gian-Luca Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I should add re: Johnson I don't think he really is an out and out offensive winger - even in the Gold Cup games he often drifted inside where is more comfortable, as a central player. However given that Atiba, Julian and the on-form Bernier were all there its tough to blame Hart for not playing him there as well. Also re: finishing, lets not forget prior to the Honduras game we had scored 8 goals in our previous five games, giving up just two. We also scored in every game in WCQ barring the C team we threw out against Jamaica in Jamaica. Teams get unlucky in finishing a multitude of chances every now and then - it would perhaps be a greater concern if we didn't create any, but that wasn't the case. The bigger problem under Mitchell was the leaking of goals, particularly in WCQ. So it is somewhat gratifying to see that we didn't concede many, and of the three we did give up, none came out of the run of play, unless you count the horrible Sutton gaffe as such. The other two goals - a bogus PK and a free kick that pretty well can't be defended (once the foul is called). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklefan Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Ed No offense but we've just seen what happens when we call up these guys who are lighting up beer leagues in Europe. How many goals did the "can't miss" kid Simeon Jackson get in the Gold Cup? How many? Bring in proven goal scorers like Friend. Lets not forget that we need FIFA points. How many goals Friend scored in the last Gold Cup? I don't even remember if he scored during the WCQ, I think he did not. I admire Friend because he had the chance to play and score in the Bundesliga, but sadly he's not the solution in attack for our MNT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 As you might guess, I disagree entirely. We have to put the appropriate players on the field to take advantage of Friend. Neither Kluka nor Simpson were involved in the last Gold Cup. I am more likely to see pigs fly than to see DeRo deliver a quality cross into the box from the flank, but that's who was on one flank. Friend is a proven goal scorer in a big league. It's a fact. He needs a better supporting cast and we have the bodies for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklefan Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I was thinking about that, but my final conclusion is that is more suitable for a team that one player adjust himself to team rather than the team to one player. Besides, he played in the same position he plays in his club but he just didn't score during the WCQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 ^ You don't get it. Of course he plays the same position at his club. He and Gerba are far better strikers than anybody we have right now. He doesn't have to adjust; it's a matter of our nats playing more games. We'll just have to disagree on Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca I should add re: Johnson I don't think he really is an out and out offensive winger - even in the Gold Cup games he often drifted inside where is more comfortable, as a central player. However given that Atiba, Julian and the on-form Bernier were all there its tough to blame Hart for not playing him there as well. I would like to see how he plays at RSL as a wide guy in the 4-4-2. However, until he puts on some ballast/muscle he's not an option as a centre mid in our current system, though I like some of the playmaking instincts he showed glimpses of. I don't want people here to think I'm p*ssing on him. I like a lot of his technical skills and his other footballing instincts: drifting inside got him that great opportunity he's probably still kicking himself about. He has upside but I don't think it's as a winger in the system we currently play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklefan Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Ed ^ You don't get it. Of course he plays the same position at his club. He and Gerba are far better strikers than anybody we have right now. He doesn't have to adjust; it's a matter of our nats playing more games. We'll just have to disagree on Friend. Our two best strikers during the WCQ were 2. Gerba and 1. Radzinski. Period and Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by canucklefan Our two best strikers during the WCQ were 2. Gerba and 1. Radzinski. Period and Amen. Only one of those guys was on the field as a striker. Your stance of not selecting Friend as he cannot be provided service from his team would lead me to first of all bench Julian as he is one step ahead of everyone else on the field. That would be met with outrage of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcisoul Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Ed i dont mean to be an ass and bring the WCQ but how many goals did your proven goal scorer score in that tournament? Im not saying pick Ricketts over Friend im just saying it to make a point. For some reason they guy just cant score for us. oh crap i just read someone making this point my bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by canucklefan I was thinking about that, but my final conclusion is that is more suitable for a team that one player adjust himself to team rather than the team to one player. Besides, he played in the same position he plays in his club but he just didn't score during the WCQ. That would be correct if the team was working well as it is but it is not. Gerba has shown himself able to score but noone else has and if it continues like this teams will just key on Gerba. Plus what do we do if he is injured or otherwise unavailable. Ed makes a valid point that if Friend were receiving crosses from Simpson and Kluka his goal production might have been better (or if he had been playing under a coach who knew how to use him). Friend is a target striker and being able to supply decent crosses is a basic skill that any international level player should have so I don't really see it as changing tactics to suit Friend. Players should be able to accurately cross the ball and if they can't then they really need to work on this skill to play at an international level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklefan Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly That would be correct if the team was working well as it is but it is not. Gerba has shown himself able to score but noone else has and if it continues like this teams will just key on Gerba. Plus what do we do if he is injured or otherwise unavailable. Ed makes a valid point that if Friend were receiving crosses from Simpson and Kluka his goal production might have been better (or if he had been playing under a coach who knew how to use him). Friend is a target striker and being able to supply decent crosses is a basic skill that any international level player should have so I don't really see it as changing tactics to suit Friend. Players should be able to accurately cross the ball and if they can't then they really need to work on this skill to play at an international level. I have to disagree in some points of your comment, if I remember well, Friend played the 2007 Gold Cup while Hart was the coach of our national team, everybody seems to agree Hart is a good coach (myself included) and while we didn't win the tournament, I think we can assume Canada had a very good run, in other words, a team was working well, but again, Friend didn't score a single goal. Can he still improve his game and get better? I have my doubts, he has now 28 and I don't know, after one Gold Cup and one WCQ, if I were the coach, I don't think I would give him a third chance with the 2014 WCQ. It's just sad he doesn't score because he does well with Borussia Monchengladbach and honestly it's thanks to Friend if I picked a particular interest in the German Bundesliga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Run down: Will Johnson: as many have suggested above, too tenative out on the wing. Too many backpasses. He looks quite good playing out there for RSL, whether the speed in the international game leaves him neutralized or he was just gun shy, i dunno. Peters - have to agree there wasn't much there. Jackson - thought he did a good job in spurts. Showed he had a mind for the game and always continues to improve. Friend - simply never had any service. If he was standing in the box on Saturday i think we stood a way higher chance of scoring a goal. WCQ our wing play was crap. There was zero speed out wide and we never got into any dangerous positions. If Josh Simpson can get more consistant he should be a fixture because too many of the guys we have out wide like to slow play it and they simply aren't dangerous enough with the ball. fin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Ed As you might guess, I disagree entirely. We have to put the appropriate players on the field to take advantage of Friend. Neither Kluka nor Simpson were involved in the last Gold Cup. I am more likely to see pigs fly than to see DeRo deliver a quality cross into the box from the flank, but that's who was on one flank. Friend is a proven goal scorer in a big league. It's a fact. He needs a better supporting cast and we have the bodies for that. Friend has scored 7 goals in 24 apearances in the B1. That's not bad but he isn't a "proven goal scorer in a big league". A proven goal scorer scores more goals and do it over a few more seasons before being considered "proven". Even if you add his Eredivisie goals it doesn't make a case for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca As far as I can tell, nobody was saying that Ricketts is on his way to surpassing Pele, just that he's doing well and is someone who's progress we should note. Nowt wrong with that, as far as I can tell. True, but the exact quote was : "we should keep a close eye on him regarding getting a call to the next cmnt match (who knows when that will be) but if he keeps up this pace, there shouldn't be any doubt that he should get a good look So why would Ricket's accomplishments warrant any more acknowledgment or of mention than say, Reda Agourram? That's the 19 year old who is far and away the goal scoring leader in the CSL with 10 goal in ten games. Hence its very fair to point out and give some perspective to the level of competition that Ricketts plays in. Otherwise, how long will it before the calls of " Fire Stephen Hart for not calling up Ricketts" start up. Its also not fair to the multitudes of Canadians who play in Canada in the in the various pro leagues ( Impact, White caps) and semi pro (CSL, PCSL etc). I'm sure that, a suggestion that , we should keep an on a certain CSL player for CMNT would raise eyebrows. So why shouldn't it raise eyebrows when it is suggested that a player at level where, for all we know, may be comparable or even inferior, to what we might see by hoping on a car and going to Esther Shiner or centennial park. In a subtble way, we have long discriminated against the known (local based players) in favour of those we know little about and little about their leagues. And, I believe that, in some way, the awareness that is raise here is not unnoticed by the CSA and coaches. And that awareness just might be the difference between a call up to a camp and a non call up to a camp. The advantage Ricketts has none of us have ever seen Ricketts since the U20's and single game much could name a team in Finland. And that unfairly tips the scales in favour of the unknown rather than the known and that makes no sence. We have seen players like Charles Gbeke or Rocco Plancentino on TV or live. But I have never seen anyone suggest that an eye should kept on them for NT. No one mentions that Sandro Grande wasn't called up. Of course, we all wish Rickets well in his career, but in a CMNT forum, the news mentioned here regarding Ricketts is not all that significant IMO. of course, that could change in the future. Thats not intended to slight the player in question. Just like it was unfair t someone like Joey Torchia (Remember him)to mention his name in a MNT forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by ag futbol Run down: Friend - simply never had any service. If he was standing in the box on Saturday i think we stood a way higher chance of scoring a goal. WCQ our wing play was crap. There was zero speed out wide and we never got into any dangerous positions. If Josh Simpson can get more consistant he should be a fixture because too many of the guys we have out wide like to slow play it and they simply aren't dangerous enough with the ball. fin But I have seen Mckenna be more productive up front as target man. Remember him from the GC in 2002? It seems that Mckenna and Gerba gets better service than Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Free kick True, but the exact quote was : "we should keep a close eye on him regarding getting a call to the next cmnt match (who knows when that will be) but if he keeps up this pace, there shouldn't be any doubt that he should get a good look So why would Ricket's accomplishments warrant any more acknowledgment or of mention than say, Reda Agourram? That's the 19 year old who is far and away the goal scoring leader in the CSL with 10 goal in ten games. Hence its very fair to point out and give some perspective to the level of competition that Ricketts plays in. Otherwise, how long will it before the calls of " Fire Stephen Hart for not calling up Ricketts" start up. Its also not fair to the multitudes of Canadians who play in Canada in the in the various pro leagues ( Impact, White caps) and semi pro (CSL, PCSL etc). I'm sure that, a suggestion that , we should keep an on a certain CSL player for CMNT would raise eyebrows. So why shouldn't it raise eyebrows when it is suggested that a player at level where, for all we know, may be comparable or even inferior, to what we might see by hoping on a car and going to Esther Shiner or centennial park. In a subtble way, we have long discriminated against the known (local based players) in favour of those we know little about and little about their leagues. And, I believe that, in some way, the awareness that is raise here is not unnoticed by the CSA and coaches. And that awareness just might be the difference between a call up to a camp and a non call up to a camp. The advantage Ricketts has none of us have ever seen Ricketts since the U20's and single game much could name a team in Finland. And that unfairly tips the scales in favour of the unknown rather than the known. We have seen players like Charles Gbeke or Rocco Plancentino on TV or live. But I have never seen anyone suggest that an eye should kept on them for NT. No one mentions that Sandro Grande wasn't called up. Of course, we all wish Rickets well in his career, but in a CMNT forum, the news mentioned here regarding Ricketts is not all that significant IMO. of course, that could change in the future. Thats not intended to slight the player in question. Just like it was unfair t someone like Joey Torchia (Remember him)to mention his name in a MNT forum There is some merit to saying Finland is not the best league in Europe. However, to compare it to the CSL is totally offbase, it is far better quality. It is probably similar in quality to USL1. I would expect that if a young Canadian striker was scoring in the USL at the pace that Ricketts is in Finland he would get some attention here but I can't think of anyone doing so. Gbeke is closest but not young and he was called to the Gold Cup team. Haber has 4 goals in 15 games which is decent but it is not like he is ignored here and I doubt a thread saying watch Haber would cause any controversy. BTW when Grande was in form last season quite a few were calling for him to be called to the national team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodgkiss Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 the reason ricketts should get a look in the next cmnt match is that it will be a friendly. the first game on the way to 2014 (that is not a tournament). if he keeps up this pace, he should get a look. it's only fair. seeing we don't really have any "proven" options up front besides gerba, it should be wide open. ricketts has scored at the u20 level, ncaa, and now in his first year of professional football. there is a pattern. he has speed, he can obviously find the net and he is young. yes he needs to develop more technically (that is not in question here) but he certainly deserves a look. in 2014, he will be 26? in his prime - unlike some others... friend will be 33, gerba 32, de rosario 36, de guzman 33 i wanna see friendlies with a starting XI like this: ----------------------misiewicz------------------------- attakora-----------jakovic-----------edgar---------suprenant johnson------lacoste lebuis---------de jong---------ledgerwood -----------------jackson-------ornoch-------------------- bench: ricketts, hainault, street, stillo, saiko, sidra, owusu-ansah, beaulieu-bourgault, bonifacio, gage, edwini bonsu, haber, gala and gyaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by canucklefan I have to disagree in some points of your comment, if I remember well, Friend played the 2007 Gold Cup while Hart was the coach of our national team, everybody seems to agree Hart is a good coach (myself included) and while we didn't win the tournament, I think we can assume Canada had a very good run, in other words, a team was working well, but again, Friend didn't score a single goal. Can he still improve his game and get better? I have my doubts, he has now 28 and I don't know, after one Gold Cup and one WCQ, if I were the coach, I don't think I would give him a third chance with the 2014 WCQ. It's just sad he doesn't score because he does well with Borussia Monchengladbach and honestly it's thanks to Friend if I picked a particular interest in the German Bundesliga. Friend only played 2 matches in that Gold Cup and while he didn't score he played quite well. Unlike Gerba he is a pretty effective player outside of scoring, holds the ball well, keeps possession and comes back to help out on defence if needed. I do agree that a striker needs to score but I also think we need to work him into the mixx with the right players and right tactics. As far as Hart goes there are positive signs but I am not ready to claim he is a good coach yet. He has had a bit of success in 2 tournaments that were far less competitive than WCQ. He has earned himself some more time to show whether he can consistently get enough good results to keep him for WCQ. The next few years should determine whether he really is a good cooach or just got lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by hodgkiss and now in his first year of professional football He is playing in Finland. That should probably read semi-professional football. Just like in a USL context some of the teams in the Veikkausliiga are not full-time. Out of curiosity are you his agent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard That thought did cross my mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodgkiss Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 hahahahahah no. no agent here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly Friend only played 2 matches in that Gold Cup and while he didn't score he played quite well. Unlike Gerba he is a pretty effective player outside of scoring, holds the ball well, keeps possession and comes back to help out on defence if needed. I do agree that a striker needs to score but I also think we need to work him into the mixx with the right players and right tactics. As far as Hart goes there are positive signs but I am not ready to claim he is a good coach yet. He has had a bit of success in 2 tournaments that were far less competitive than WCQ. He has earned himself some more time to show whether he can consistently get enough good results to keep him for WCQ. The next few years should determine whether he really is a good cooach or just got lucky. My favourite striker is the one that scores but having said that I agree with your assessment of Friend (and Hart) here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by loyola Friend has scored 7 goals in 24 apearances in the B1. That's not bad but he isn't a "proven goal scorer in a big league". A proven goal scorer scores more goals and do it over a few more seasons before being considered "proven". Even if you add his Eredivisie goals it doesn't make a case for him. Well I don't know what criteria you use. He LED his Bundesliga team in goals this past season, despite limited appearances due to injury, repeating that as he also led the team in the previous season in the B2. I would say he is a proven goal scorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Ed Well I don't know what criteria you use. He LED his Bundesliga team in goals this past season, despite limited appearances due to injury, repeating that as he also led the team in the previous season in the B2. I would say he is a proven goal scorer. I don't think he is a proven goalscorer in a big league. B2 isn't a big league, it's a decent place for young Canadians for sure but it's not among the top 10 leagues in Europe. My point is that he needs more seasons in the B1 scoring goals before being consider a proven goalscorer in a big league. BTW, good for him that he led his team with 7 goals but that's not that much when you consider that approx 35 players scored more goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bingham Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Rob Friend Bundesliga Div one 24 games 7 goals Div two 33 games 18 goals MNT 22 games 2 goals He is a target man striker, limited skills...He is a product of the B.C. British mafia long ball/ugly football coaching mind set..the school that spawned Dale Mitchell. Hart has coached at two Gold Cup tournaments,has Canada playing an attractive brand of football that i cannot recall EVER being played by our national team in 25 years of watching them. Conclusion: Hire Hart now and forget about long ball Friend he does not fit into the system and is by no means the prolific scorer some on here seem to think he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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