Who has Hart in their heart?

[superbrad]

We've talked about it in other threads without dedicating one to the subject.

The players love him, he gets results....

For, against or is it still too early?

I for one am sold...

[Footscray]

The performance has been pretty consistent in the last two gold cups with him, he knows Concacaf and it seems like the players respect him. It's going to be hard to choose someone else unless they get bombed by Honduras. I would be happy to see him get a shot, just a little worried about the workload on him as TD and head coach, he will need some decent help to suceed.

[Cheeta]

The CSA are over the barrel on this one and it may just be one of those happy accidents which (at some point) become a defining point for every person and organization. A defining point for the better. As it stands now there is only one way you could not hire the man without making it look like he was passed over for political reasons and that would be to bring in a proven international coach. And since that just isn't going to happen unless the CSA budget suddenly doubles and doubles again, (no sense hiring a top-gun without giving him a supporting budget) it really is just a matter of timing the coronation ceremony.

Interesting question about it maybe being too early to bring him on. Coaches have a way of wearing out their welcome/effectiveness with the players but we're kinda into it now aren't we? There is no going back at this stage so we may as well do the odvious and get on this horse and ride it as far as it'll take us.

Hart is the right man for the job at the right time. Will he be the man to take us through WCQ and onto Brazil? Don't know. But I'm sure, if he isn't that man, that he'll hand off the MNT program to his successor if far, far better shape than any manager who has before him. At least in my memory.

So, yeah. Make it official. Give him a big fat raise and enough rope (freedom) to hang himself and see if he doesn't make a smashing go of things.

P.S. But whether he wants to or no, get him mentoring! Let him choose an apprentice, make it worth his while to hang out with Hart and hope the investment pays off for the federation in the long term.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

P.S. But whether he wants to or no, get him mentoring! Let him choose an apprentice, make it worth his while to hang out with Hart and hope the investment pays off for the federation in the long term.

Well, I'm sure this will promote an interesting discussion, but I see that he was conversing with Fonseca during the matches.

[loyola]

Honestly, I would really like to have manager with a proven track record in WCQ situation. Maybe Hart is a gem and a perfect fit for our team but I just don't feel comfortable with someone who has no pro coaching experience and very little international coaching experience.

If we hire Hart full time tomorrow, his coaching credentials won't be much different than Dale Mitchell credentials when he started coaching the MNT.

Of course, the more we advance in this tournament the more it will be tough to ignore Hart. And I'm not sure this tournament is a good indication of a coach capabilities.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Of course, the more we advance in this tournament the more it will be tough to ignore Hart. And I'm not sure this tournament is a good indication of a coach capabilities.

And you have outlined these points in another thread awhile back and I think they need to be considered. But as Cheeta states, unless the CSA are bringing in a proven international coach, I agree that Hart's going to get the gig. The wheels would really have to come off the wagon for him to not get the job.

And if he gets the job, it will give him the important task of building squad depth and competition for places as we prepare for the next WCQ cycle.

[Lomonty]

quote:So, yeah. Make it official. Give him a big fat raise

and send him to a tailor too the guys suit is horrible.

Unless a proven International coach is hired this is Hart's job. The Belief and confidence he gives the players is something we haven't had over the last 2 WCQ.

[strobe_z]

Ok... can't think of a better thread to unveil this...

We've had Holger's Heroes... The Frank Yallop Experience... and Mitchell's Misfits... now it's time for...

The HART ATTACK!

[)]

[canucklefan]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

And I'm not sure this tournament is a good indication of a coach capabilities.

Dead on. This tournament had too many odd results (like El Salvador win over Costa Rica). I'm not sure how motivated the top teams are and add to the fact countries like USA and Mexico are playing with a B team.

But at the end, I think Hart deserves the chance to coach a WCQ, unless the CSA is able to find a talented coach with experience (something I doubt).

[Grizzly]

I share some of Loyola's concerns and as well as the team is playing in the tournament the level is well below that of WCQ and Hart is making mistakes as well as good decisions. On the other hand Limniatis made some beginners mistakes with the Impact but also produced an overall good effect and learned along the way and Hart has 3 years to gain experience. Sometimes there are talented people without a proven track record who just nee to be given an opportunity to show what they can do. The CSA has largely picked unqualified coaches blindly but even by this method eventually one will get lucky and maybe Hart is the lucky choice.

I would keep Hart because even if you hire a proven, international coach that is no guarantee that results will be good. As long as Hart keeps getting results he should keep the job. Friendlies and competitions like the Gold Cup are not perfect indicators that things are working properly but they are as good an indicator as we have. Remember our last two coaches who failed in WCQ did not have very convincing records with the national team outside of WCQ either. Hart will also have another Gold Cup after this one to prove himself before WCQ and that Gold Cup will be much more competitive than this one. If he continues getting consistent good results we should keep him and give him the next WCQ team. If not we will be closer to WCQ and better able to afford a more experienced coach with a shorter contract.

[Guest speedmonk42]

How did we do with an experienced international coach after WINNING the Gold Cup?

I don't even know what it means if we win this thing.

Ride the high. As long as he is doing well... keep him.

[CanadasBest]

I'm very ambivalent about hiring Stephen Hart full-time for Men's coach. On one hand the players seem to have a lot of respect for him, on the other success for us at the Gold Cup has NEVER translated into success in World Cup Qualifying.

Cheeta mentioned that this could be a happy accident and could become a defining moment. Again I feel just as strongly about that as I do that this could be a defining moment for all the wrong reasons. Four years from now we do not want to be in a position where we're all saying that we should have gone with a different coach. I guess I feel almost the same as when we hired Yallop. Excited about his MLS results, but wary that he was not the best person for the job.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by gwallace76

I'm very ambivalent about hiring Stephen Hart full-time for Men's coach. On one hand the players seem to have a lot of respect for him, on the other success for us at the Gold Cup has NEVER translated into success in World Cup Qualifying.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that SH has basically 100% support from the players and the importance of that can't be underestimated.

It is my understanding that there are some people within the CSA that were hell bent on doing a thorough hunt for the best possible candidate for the job but Stephen's performance thus far in this GC, especially considering that many saw the squad as a bit of a makeshift unit before the tourney started, combined with his strong work at the last GC, leads me to wonder if the BoD is starting to reconsider the value of wasting time on a job hunt when it is clear that the players respond to Stephen.

It is easy to assume that an experienced gaffer will be an obvious choice and I have drank that kool aid at times. I just wonder if, in this case, the coach you know is better than the bigger name, bigger money coach who might not be able to mesh with the players we've got.

[The Ref]

Right now I am sold on Hart. The only thing that could be against him is that he doesn't have WC experience. But hell, we never got anywhere with any of the other jokers, except for Waiters. There is no assurance that a big name will have the support of the players or will do any better. If it ain't broken... Right now he has done better than all the other coaches in this tourney. Besides he hasn't kicked any opponents ala Aguirre!

[strobe_z]

At this point, how can we NOT give the job to Stephen Hart? True, the Gold Cup is not WCQ, but it is the second most important set of matches Canada has. I'll admit I was in the "Stephen Who?" crowd when he was first named interim coach, but I don't think there can be much argument that he's earned a shot.

As far as the argument that success at the Gold Cup hasn't turned into WCQ success... well, I'd consider exactly what "success" we've really had.

Let's review:

Gold Cup 1991 - 4-2 loss to Honduras, 3-1 loss to Mexico, 3-2 victory over Jamaica. Thanks for coming out.

Gold Cup 1993 - 1-1 draw with Costa Rica, 2-2 draw with Martinique, 8-0 loss to Mexico (8-0!!). Thanks for coming out.

Gold Cup 1996 - 3-1 victory over Honduras, Radz scoring against Brazil in a 4-1 loss (still love to see a video of that one!)

Gold Cup 1998 - We withdrew and gave our spot to Jamaica so they could get ready for France '98.... (huh?!)

Gold Cup 2000 - Won based on Holger's "defence first, last and only" stragegy. Lead by Craig Forrest standing on his head. Corrazin had a bunch of goals, but how many of them were penalties? (*edit: 2/4 penalties) We started WCQ in 2001 with an injured Craig Forrest, Pat Onstad lets in 2 suspect goals against Trinidad and we never recover.

Gold Cup 2002 - Beat Haiti 2-0 and lost to Ecuador 2-0. Advance on the patented Canadian Coin Flip strategy. Struggle with Martinique, win on penalties, use the 10-0-0 formation against the USA (and Lars STILL had to stand on his head), lose on penalties. Take 3rd place against a disinterested Korean squad 2-1 (one goal being a Korean own goal).

Gold Cup 2003 - beat Costa Rica 1-0 (yay Diesel!), flame out against Cuba... Holger quits.

Gold Cup 2005 - Yallop takes over, we lose 1-0 to Costa Rica (phantom handball), lose 2-0 to USA, and get our revenge 2-1 against Cuba. Thanks for coming out. WCQ goes about the same.

Gold Cup 2007 - Hart takes over, we play inspired attacking style possession football, win our group and come within a Mexican ref of pushing the USA to brink. Mitchell takes over and we play disjointed and confused in WCQ.

Gold Cup 2009 - Hart's back, we play inspired attacking style possession football, win our group...

In my book, that's actually not a whole lot of "success", and what little we did have came by playing evil long-ball anti-football. True, we don't know what would've happened had Hart had the reigns during WCQ... but if we're drawing diagrams between Gold Cups and WCQ, I think they're actually quite a clear predictor.

[villus]

100% he should be our next coach, he should have been the coach this time around. Obviously the results are good but its not just that, all the players have confidence and trust in him and thats huge. The players are the ones who have to work with him day to day and if he has their confidence they are going to buy into what hes selling and the results will show that.

[ray]

At this time, I think we have to go with Hart. With the CSA's budget and after the fiasco of the last search for a coach, we don't want to waste more time to find someone new. If we go looking abroad again, we will lose a year plus the time the new manager will require to become familiar with the players (and possibly CONCACAF itself). Let's use that money and time to play more regularly, focusing on our local rivals.

[Peter S]

Grizly makes the point that Hart should be retained until the conclusion of the next Gold Cup in 2011. At this point, a decision can be made whether to retain him for the WCQ in 2012-2013.

He is producing very favourable results, and has the support of the players. Hopefully the CSA can give him an appropriate set of friendlies to further gain experience, for himself and his squad during these years, and so we may judge his performance on a broad set of matches.

Of course, we won't know anything until we see if we can get into the Hex, something our last three managers haven't been able to do ...

[superbrad]

quote:Originally posted by villus

100% he should be our next coach, he should have been the coach this time around. Obviously the results are good but its not just that, all the players have confidence and trust in him and thats huge. The players are the ones who have to work with him day to day and if he has their confidence they are going to buy into what hes selling and the results will show that.

Agree. The reason I started this thread was due to the fact that Asmir referenced the fact that his decision was partially based on the decisions of the CSA. I took that to mean the coach. As VPjr suggests, I believe the players are 100% behind Hart. I don't know why - maybe someone can enlighten us - but I imagine its because he lets them play the kind of football that they want to play. We've had 30 years of depressive, defensive football that by its nature says....."Hey you guys suck and the only way you can win is if we get a 0 - 0 draw and win on penalties or a coin toss". It's time to stop thinking this way and the way we win is by attacking the opponent who will inevitably underestimate us. Hart gets it and so do the players.

[loyola]

Based on the 3 GC games, there's no denying Hart is getting the job done in term of results. But aren't some here getting carried away by saying we're playing some kind of attacking/possession football style? In only one game we really looked better than our opponent (El Salvador) but even then we didn't have that many scoring opportunities.

Considering that with Mitchell at the helm we scored in all our qualifiying games I would argue that it's defensively that we've improved under Hart. I would even argue that against the same opponent we've looked better against Jamaica last year at BMO field than this year in California.

I'm not against Hart receiving the job full time or people praising him but I'm a little bit surprise with some of the comments referring to the change of style.

[squizz1402635577]

If Hart's not interested, I hear Rene Simoes is looking for a job...

(in my best Homer Simpson voice) "In case you couldn't tell, I was being sarcastic!"

[Trillium]

Hart has a CSA job now as technical director, he should be retained in that post and coach the National Men's Team along with the Under 20s.

It amazes me at how little load we put on CSA staff, coaching two teams who gather for under 12 weeks a year is not a full time job.

The retained money from U20 and MNT team budgets can be used to establish a real "paid" monitoring system for youth players.

That means hiring some folks to travel and see US college games, to monitor CIS games to look for talent within Senior amateur soccer and competitive youth soccer. This would include watching PDL, CSL et al.

The men's head coach position till WC Brasil qualification is only valid becuase you get a chance to bring in youth test out the mix of players and develop a positive atmosphere.

Those tasks fall naturally to the National Technical Director position, so have Hart do that job, and step in on the side of pitch as requiered.

What is more important right now for the MNT is to have an agressive program of games to play, bringing in as many young players based in USL or MLS during the winter season to play matches against a broad range of teams, home games can of course be held in Montreal in the Big O as was already done for CCL.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by squizz

If Hart's not interested, I hear Rene Simoes is looking for a job...

If he can't do it for Jamaica, Simoes won't do miracles here.

And he'll cost us money ... lots.

Bradley (USA) wasn't the most experienced international coach when

he took over, but when players seemed to play for him, he got

some results. I wouldn't hire him, but it has worked for the Americans so far.

Kenton (CRC) doesn't have the coaching experience either, but look

who's on top of the Hex so far? Carlos de los Cobos (SLV) has been

assistant to Lavolpe for Mexico's WC2004, but his results with

the Salvadoreans have been mixed (failed in GC2007, but SLV was

patient enough to retain him through to the current Hex).

Gary Stempel (PAN) was the Panamanian U23 coach from England who

was appointed after the failed WCQ campaign led by Guimaraes.

How's Panama so far?

With Hart's experience as U17, assistant, and interim coach, his

experience is comparable to his CONCACAF counterparts IMO. Plus,

he gets the attention and respect of his players, including a

certain GK eligible to play for another country.

[redhat]

To be fair, I believe that much of the recent success of this squad

is not only the coach, but the selection of the players that would play

for him.

I don't see any non-team players (or ball hawks, or complainers) on this

or even the initial GC roster.

[superbrad]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Based on the 3 GC games, there's no denying Hart is getting the job done in term of results. But aren't some here getting carried away by saying we're playing some kind of attacking/possession football style? In only one game we really looked better than our opponent (El Salvador) but even then we didn't have that many scoring opportunities.

Considering that with Mitchell at the helm we scored in all our qualifiying games I would argue that it's defensively that we've improved under Hart. I would even argue that against the same opponent we've looked better against Jamaica last year at BMO field than this year in California.

I'm not against Hart receiving the job full time or people praising him but I'm a little bit surprise with some of the comments referring to the change of style.

I don't disagree that even under Mitchell our style of play had changed...I have a long memory however and I can't stand the style of play that characterized Canada for so long. Bringing in a foreign coach might also see a return to that style.

More importantly, the sense I get from the players is that they have more freedom to create under Hart. Hart's biggest selling feature is that the players like him and want to play for him. That may help with retention of players who are eligible to play for other countries other than Canada.