GC - July 18th - Canada vs. Honduras

[TOcanadafan]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

The positives:

- JDG is a very good box to box holding midfielder. WE DESPERATELY NEED A PLAYER OF HIS EQUIVALENT TALENT (and with equivalent soccer smarts) PLAYING IN AN ATTACKING MID ROLE.

The Negatives:

- While we are able to dominate possession, we don't have the quality of player we need in the attacking mid role to be able to make high quality penetrating through passes to put our forwards in on goal. Hutch isn't the guy (I'd like to see him on the right side in a wider role rather than as an attacking central midfielder). Bernier is definitely not that guy. I'm not convinced DeRo is that guy. We don't have a legit #10 but that's what he need urgently or else we will continue to struggle to score with consistency against better teams.

- Our young forwards and midfielders need to expedite their development. I'm skeptical about Peters, mildly hopeful regarding Johnson and cautiously optimistic about Jackson. We need a few more options (Hoillett? Ornoch? Edwini-Bonsu?)

Excellent post VPjr!

I agree that JDG needs to play in the role of holding midfielder and we shouldn't force him into a more attacking role (although it might be interesting to see if he did wind up with TFC, if they would try to get him to transform his game a touch). I also agree that Bernier should not be used wide or in an attacking role. That was tried and failed in WCQ. At the present I think we have to go with DeRo. Who would you rather see as a second central mid, Hutch or Bernier? In order to gain some chemistry I would keep the present formation with Bernier, and put Hutch on the wide right like you suggest - I think he sometimes plays out there for his club team.

I also hope that Johnson develops in the MLS. He is still very young. Peters looked better years ago when he debuted for the MNT, before his fizzle out with the U20's. And it would be nice to see Hoilett get into the mix.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by orletafc

When was the last(if any) tournament organized for our senior side in Canada by the CSA? Like a 4teams roundrobin format? Are the costs that exhorbitant? Wouldn't the CSA be able to recoupe the expenses with tickets, concession & TV rights? I mean screw that invite the guys we always have a tought time beating.

Honduras

El Salvador

Nicaragua

The Voyageurs would have to handle the supports group & manage ticket sales so that we don't endup with 15 000 supporters for the other team.

I am sure some Telecom, TV & other sponsors could be found.

This is the last one that I can recall, a full ten years back, the 1999 Canada Cup.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Canada_Cup

It was a shambles. The Brazilian Olympic team was supposed to be part of the precedings but they pulled out for some reason and were replaced by Guatemala. Ticket sales then tanked!

I don't recall Canada being represented by our U-23's though. I believe the article has this incorrect.

Anyway, the attendance was abysmal. The numbers are inflated IMO. I was there.

The whole thing was anti-climactic. As a result, the best part of the trip was my trip to Jasper and Mount Robson!

Edit: Yes, Wiki was wrong. Here is a link to our roster for the Ecuador match. Not the U-23's. http://www.canadasoccer.com/tourney/FIFA_WC/game_profile.asp?gameId=626⊂=2&tab=roster

I think I'll go and correct that!

[elricko]

I wish you would all stop your whining,and face up to the simple truth.......Canadian soccer is pretty poor quality....... we do not have any leagues.....we do not have one player as talented as Donovan..how many Canadians play in the EPL or La Liga..the CSA has always been a shambles...the last U-20 WC tournament team was abysmal, they did not even score a goal..and the senior team was even worse, they were dreadful...media coverage is constantly weak, and has barely improved for many years,but is considerably better than it was in 1974 , when I arrived here.... on TV ,Sportsnet even missed the live kick off yesterday, by a few seconds--what a fricking joke, and don't even start me on Gerry Dobson, who is the BEST we've got... ????????.

Now blame all those problems on poor CONCACAF officiating??

Soccer here in EVERY way possible is second -rate, and that is why I still think that Canada is THE WORLD'S SOCCER WASTELAND.

[grigorio]

quote:Originally posted by orletafc

How do you get 8 out of 10 Gold Cups on US soil? And Co-Host the remaining 2? Ask Jack Warner.......

Canada should lobby all small CONCACAF countries to organise the next Gold Cup. Have a Public Draw LIVE on TV(CBC,SRC,SportsNet)

Maybe then we will get thru.

When we play Honduras have a El Salvadorian ref & viceversa. When we play the US have a ref brought in from IRAN, I will pay for his flight and hotel :-)

Ironically that ref was from El Salvador. Didn't do us much good but I can see Iran working...

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by elricko

I wish you would all stop your whining,and face up to the simple truth.......Canadian soccer is pretty poor quality....... we do not have any leagues.....we do not have one player as talented as Donovan..how many Canadians play in the EPL or La Liga..the CSA has always been a shambles...the last U-20 WC tournament team was abysmal, they did not even score a goal..and the senior team was even worse, they were dreadful...media coverage is constantly weak, and has barely improved for many years,but is considerably better than it was in 1974 , when I arrived here.... on TV ,Sportsnet even missed the live kick off yesterday, by a few seconds--what a fricking joke, and don't even start me on Gerry Dobson, who is the BEST we've got... ????????.

Now blame all those problems on poor CONCACAF officiating??

Soccer here in EVERY way possible is second -rate, and that is why I still think that Canada is THE WORLD'S SOCCER WASTELAND.

Yes, but here is part of the issue: We need to play more games so that we can get better and be more successful. We need to win more games to that we can attract more quality players to our programs. When we lose a game partly because of poor officiating, then that means the end of the tournie--ie no more games together, for awhile--and it means our lads do not get the media coverage that they need to attract more players (and fans).

I agree: We needed to finish our chances and win this ourselves, but crap reffing indeed has a horrible impact on a country that is scraping its way for credibility. it is like third world countries trying to get out of economic morass but keeping getting awful rulings from world financial bodies like the WTO etc.

[canadianfoot]

A tournament should be held in Canada every 2years alternating with the Gold Cup. Forget about inviting other countries from other federations. We need to play all of Central America & get our act togheter that even 1mistake by a ref won't change the outcome of the game.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

Yeah, Martinez can't be held responsible for a ref's mistake. Don't think anyone should expect him to be.

If he's gifted a penalty, he's gifted a penalty. It's not down to him to correct the mistake of another.

Now if he dives to try to draw a penalty? Well, that's another thing altogether. Didn't see that in this instance.

Although he tried the same scissor-kick move in the 2nd half in front of Jakovic and pretended that he got yanked down which drew a yellow card to McKenna for dissent. In fact our only two yellow cards in the game came from the same scissor-kick move from the same player. The Ref was a sucker for it. And he was something else ending in "ucker" but beginning with a different letter than "s".

[Joe MacCarthy]

quote:Originally posted by elricko

Soccer here in EVERY way possible is second -rate, and that is why I still think that Canada is THE WORLD'S SOCCER WASTELAND.

Ok great, now that's settled, go back to the scummy backwater you left and let the rest of us get on with it.

[BigBird]

Not surprised on the penalty I figured one would be given by a this ref. As much as he was wrong awarding it. I would have thought a better judgement on the ref on this one. Really had no merits to be given. Certainally weak of a goal of a scoring opportunty, and even more weak as the attacker back to goal trying an imposible kick to shoot on the net. Poor judgement on the offical.

In my opinion this pk destroyed any confidence of a positive result its tough to recover from it when your back is against a wall we just have to ignore these stupid calls.

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by elricko

I wish you would all stop your whining,and face up to the simple truth.......Canadian soccer is pretty poor quality....... we do not have any leagues.....we do not have one player as talented as Donovan..how many Canadians play in the EPL or La Liga..the CSA has always been a shambles...the last U-20 WC tournament team was abysmal, they did not even score a goal..and the senior team was even worse, they were dreadful...media coverage is constantly weak, and has barely improved for many years,but is considerably better than it was in 1974 , when I arrived here.... on TV ,Sportsnet even missed the live kick off yesterday, by a few seconds--what a fricking joke, and don't even start me on Gerry Dobson, who is the BEST we've got... ????????.

Now blame all those problems on poor CONCACAF officiating??

Soccer here in EVERY way possible is second -rate, and that is why I still think that Canada is THE WORLD'S SOCCER WASTELAND.

You really need to read the forum more.

People are very critical of soccer in Canada and watch a lot of other soccer as well.

That does not mean they are incorrect to make note of a pattern that has become all to obvious.

Different rules for different teams, or worse.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by elricko

I wish you would all stop your whining,and face up to the simple truth.......Canadian soccer is pretty poor quality....... we do not have any leagues.....we do not have one player as talented as Donovan..how many Canadians play in the EPL or La Liga..the CSA has always been a shambles...the last U-20 WC tournament team was abysmal, they did not even score a goal..and the senior team was even worse, they were dreadful...media coverage is constantly weak, and has barely improved for many years,but is considerably better than it was in 1974 , when I arrived here.... on TV ,Sportsnet even missed the live kick off yesterday, by a few seconds--what a fricking joke, and don't even start me on Gerry Dobson, who is the BEST we've got... ????????.

Actually, it's worse than that. They missed the five minute tape delayed kick-off!

Yes, they show the entire game on a tape delay so they can put in a pre-match show.

... and as for Gerry, we like him because he's a nice guy but we all know he's not the BEST although he is Sportsnet's best when it comes to calling soccer.

quote: Now blame all those problems on poor CONCACAF officiating??

So, are you new around here? Have you ever read any of our threads shredding the CSA?

Do some reading!

quote:Soccer here in EVERY way possible is second -rate, and that is why I still think that Canada is THE WORLD'S SOCCER WASTELAND.

Hmmm. Not as much of a wasteland as your post! [)]

db

Edit: Hmmmm, I see Speedmonk is too quick for me. Never did like him!

[BearcatSA]

The discussion about how we lack a bona fide creative playmaking mid tends to distract from the fact that we had no 1 v 1 threat on the right side for most of the game and I think that seriously undermined our attack. Johnson's a tidy player technically who looks for the quick pass and shows a lot of hustle, but I never once felt that he was capable of making something happen 1 v 1. In fact, when he had the opportunity to go with it he would play the ball backwards to one of our mids or Stalteri, instead. A few people were disappointed with Peters' contribution but at least he tried to take on the fullback and make something happen.

In agreement with others, I was also really disappointed with the set play delivery and execution, whether it was Klukowski hitting his inswinging corners too short or Bernier's outswingers sailing over everyone.

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA

The discussion about how we lack a bona fide creative playmaking mid tends to distract from the fact that we had no 1 v 1 threat on the right side for most of the game and I think that seriously undermined our attack. Johnson's a tidy player technically who looks for the quick pass and shows a lot of hustle, but I never once felt that he was capable of making something happen 1 v 1. In fact, when he had the opportunity to go with it he would play the ball backwards to one of our mids or Stalteri, instead. A few people were disappointed with Peters' contribution but at least he tried to take on the fullback and make something happen.

In agreement with others, I was also really disappointed with the set play delivery and execution, whether it was Klukowski hitting his inswinging corners too short or Bernier's outswingers sailing over everyone.

Considering the decent quality of Simpson's crosses during the run of play, perhaps we should have given him a crack at a few of the corners. We wasted far too many corners.

[Trillium]

Seeing the game live, I would suggest the foul in the box was not needed we did pull the player down, and the referre pounced.

Fair ? perhaps not but the real issue was the Canadian player panicking and tugging when he did not need to.

We need players who remain composed.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

Considering the decent quality of Simpson's crosses during the run of play, perhaps we should have given him a crack at a few of the corners. We wasted far too many corners.

In contrast, in another QF three of the four Mexican goals against Haiti came directly (or indirectly, with a resultant penalty) off corner kicks.

[TFC07]

Any official responds from CSA to complain about the ref to CONCACAF and/or FIFA?

Anyway, Gold cup is a joke and I think Canada should just boycott Gold Cup. But sadly, that wouldn't happen since Canada doesn’t play too many games.

[Macksam]

quote:Originally posted by elricko

I wish you would all stop your whining,and face up to the simple truth.......Canadian soccer is pretty poor quality....... we do not have any leagues.....we do not have one player as talented as Donovan..how many Canadians play in the EPL or La Liga..the CSA has always been a shambles...the last U-20 WC tournament team was abysmal, they did not even score a goal..and the senior team was even worse, they were dreadful...media coverage is constantly weak, and has barely improved for many years,but is considerably better than it was in 1974 , when I arrived here.... on TV ,Sportsnet even missed the live kick off yesterday, by a few seconds--what a fricking joke, and don't even start me on Gerry Dobson, who is the BEST we've got... ????????.

Now blame all those problems on poor CONCACAF officiating??

Soccer here in EVERY way possible is second -rate, and that is why I still think that Canada is THE WORLD'S SOCCER WASTELAND.

It seems like you read wikipedia... and than started talking sh*t. There's so much stuff wrong with that post I'm not even going to begin.

[guppy]

quote:Originally posted by Macksam

It seems like you read wikipedia... and than started talking sh*t. There's so much stuff wrong with that post I'm not even going to begin.

It's the argumentum ad hominem. The officiating cost the game. Canadian soccer fans say it cost the game. Nevermind that officiating stuff!! I can't win that argument, so I'll just attack Gerry Dobson!![:0] (who's harder to defend) .

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Although he tried the same scissor-kick move in the 2nd half in front of Jakovic and pretended that he got yanked down which drew a yellow card to McKenna for dissent. In fact our only two yellow cards in the game came from the same scissor-kick move from the same player. The Ref was a sucker for it. And he was something else ending in "ucker" but beginning with a different letter than "s".

LOL. Yes, well said G-L.

[guppy]

quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA

The discussion about how we lack a bona fide creative playmaking mid tends to distract from the fact that we had no 1 v 1 threat on the right side for most of the game and I think that seriously undermined our attack. Johnson's a tidy player technically who looks for the quick pass and shows a lot of hustle, but I never once felt that he was capable of making something happen 1 v 1. In fact, when he had the opportunity to go with it he would play the ball backwards to one of our mids or Stalteri, instead. A few people were disappointed with Peters' contribution but at least he tried to take on the fullback and make something happen.

In agreement with others, I was also really disappointed with the set play delivery and execution, whether it was Klukowski hitting his inswinging corners too short or Bernier's outswingers sailing over everyone.

I think they switched from attempts to thread it thru the eye of a needle up the middle too late. It needed to be more balanced against Honduras right from the start ... near the end it was working more or less.. but they were running out of time. If they had done it earlier, and spread out the defense, they may have then tried something up the middle and it might have worked.

[nolando]

I've just re-watched the game and can absolutely say without a shred of doubt in my mind that WE BEAT OURSELVES with a little help from the ref, and not the other way around.

It wasn't the ref who kept Hutchinson and Johnson from connecting on even one over their collective 7 or 8 clear-cut chances (Hutch couldn't even generate a rebound after standing alone in front of goal in the first half). It wasn't the ref who kept Canada from successfully connecting on even one of Klukowski's 117 perfectly placed crosses. It wasn't the ref who made us squander another clear chance when two of our lads ran straight into EACH OTHER. It wasn't the ref who blew every corner we had. It wasn't the ref who continued to make sloppily aggressive tackles for Canada followed by incredulous outbursts as if he was playing his first game in CONCACAF (for the record that was our great leader and captain Stalteri).

But it WAS the ref who gave Honduras two phantom yellow cards in the first half, opportunities that created players in card trouble which, of course, we couldn't capitalize on or remember as voyageurs once the whistle had been blown for full time.

Yeah, the reffing was awful. It usually is. Canada's finishing was worse.

Grow up and quit turning this forum into a crybabies round table. It's unbecoming, particularly of Canadians. I sincerely hope Hart and Co. aren't playing the same cards as most are here, because Canada isn't going anywhere until we can face the reality of, and steadfastly try to improve upon, our own shortcomings.

[nolbertos]

After watching the game on GolTV today...I must say, that Canada did generate some good chances, but at the same time, lacked in so many areas. Something's don't change for Canada, cuz I feel like I'm watching the same players but with different names from 1998 WCQ, with no talent, technique, flair and creativity, with the exception of DeGuzman and Ali Gerba. I didn't see Canada dominating, like many claim, not even in the 2nd half. Dominating means holding more than 60-70% possession and scoring goals and getting good corner kicks that actually connect and either miss wide or close. Canada lacks offensive punch. After watching the US vs Panama game and the cracker from Beckerman, I see why we are light years behind the States and will continue to be for decades. I don't believe the MLS Academies once Vancouver and Montreal are on board, won't bring quality players to fruition until at least 2 more World Cups, when Canada will have more talent. Until than, I just pray that we get more friendlies and more kids opt for Europe to get noticed, but even than, the future isn't as bright as many as you claim. The only bright spot, I see is if Canada continually gets more teams into the CONCACAF Champion's League and keep making it further.

Edit: I refrained from posting anti-CSA rhetoric, only cuz it seems it's impossible and hopeless, alas. Too bad the CSA was separate from the Federal Government like most FA's are around the world, only than, can change occur.

[elricko]

Thank goodness for Nolando and Nolbertos for stating some sense re. the game ,and Canada's "attempts" to play soccer.

I have been watching and supporting soccer for over 50 years, and unfortunately ,watching and supporting Canada over 35 of those years, usually with abject disappointment..and have been continually reading this forum for approx. 8 years..so I do know a little about the sport...unlike so many on here.

This country is full of whiners who are so eager to complain about every world sport that it fails at, which is most sports ...the USA was non-existent at soccer when I arrived here 35 years ago..they did not whine, they decided to become a success..and now they are . Canada lacks some inner strength, some resourcefulness , a will to win, a desire to succeed...maybe it's the cosmopolitan cultural mix...but I tell you, I know from experience, something is missing here !!!!

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by elricko

Thank goodness for Nolando and Nolbertos for stating some sense re. the game ,and Canada's "attempts" to play soccer.

I have been watching and supporting soccer for over 50 years, and unfortunately ,watching and supporting Canada over 35 of those years, usually with abject disappointment..and have been continually reading this forum for approx. 8 years..so I do know a little about the sport...unlike so many on here.

This country is full of whiners who are so eager to complain about every world sport that it fails at, which is most sports ...the USA was non-existent at soccer when I arrived here 35 years ago..they did not whine, they decided to become a success..and now they are . Canada lacks some inner strength, some resourcefulness , a will to win, a desire to succeed...maybe it's the cosmopolitan cultural mix...but I tell you, I know from experience, something is missing here !!!!

The point I am trying to make is that few people on here have any delusions about the quality of the team or state of the game in this country. That is what I mean by read the forum.

We can be a crap team and still have bad calls against us.

It is not a case of one or the other. It's seems to be a bit of both when it counts.

I think every other country in CONCACAF knows if we get our act together we will be the 3rd force in this federation. That does not bode well for the other countries that vie for the coveted 3rd spot. If you need a reason, broadly speaking I think that is it.

[guppy]

quote:Originally posted by elricko

Thank goodness for Nolando and Nolbertos for stating some sense re. the game ,and Canada's "attempts" to play soccer.

I have been watching and supporting soccer for over 50 years, and unfortunately ,watching and supporting Canada over 35 of those years, usually with abject disappointment..and have been continually reading this forum for approx. 8 years..so I do know a little about the sport...unlike so many on here.

This country is full of whiners who are so eager to complain about every world sport that it fails at, which is most sports ...the USA was non-existent at soccer when I arrived here 35 years ago..they did not whine, they decided to become a success..and now they are . Canada lacks some inner strength, some resourcefulness , a will to win, a desire to succeed...maybe it's the cosmopolitan cultural mix...but I tell you, I know from experience, something is missing here !!!!

Ya, sure, we need to dive more.. Well our prime minister isn't being being ousted by the military... maybe if we try harder he will be..?