Richard Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Well you get a bad call against you that results in a goal for the opposition. To win a game requires a team to score goals. Canada tried but failed on that count. If you are unable to score, chances are good you will lose the game. We didn't score and we lost the game. Too bad, but the lads played the best I have seen them do in a long while. Many of the same lads played under Mitchell in WC qualifying, wonder what made the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 it seems to me that ref made a total whiff of the call. He was standing in front of stalteri and the honduran player. I think he thought stalteri pulled the honduran down from behind, where in fact the honduran leaned backwards and went down as he was attempting a bicyle kick. Just poor refereeing....he should not have been so quick to call it and take a 1/2 second to realise he was not being pulled down or consult with his linesman as to whether there was a foul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guppy Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 People are lauding Honduras and criticizing Canada's play...meanwhile corners were 9-1 Canada. Possession 55-45.. shots on goal 8-2. Shots 12-3. Hopefully USA make short work of them .. I hate them more than any team, thank goodness USA knows how to finish them off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guppy Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Vancouver Fan To go out 2 tournaments in a row because of bad calls by the ref warrants some kind of an investigation. I'm not sure what kind of recourse is available but our association cannot continually put up with this sh*t. It's pointless. Can't reform the Mafia by complaining to it. Canada just has to get better, they have to be good enough that they can overcome the bad-calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Vancouversoccerman The Americans have shown you got to play your way to the top of the CONCACAF table to get the "free" calls. The Americans have shown you have to put corrupt officials at the top of CONCACAF to get free calls and favourable groupings. Warner is just the front man of the corruption, the real dirty player is Chuck Blazer and the USSF. Warner wouldn't be where he is without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Eric There you go, some people here probably think that the honorable think to do by Martinez should have been missing the penalty shot to prove that he is an honorable man. IMO if there's somebody who need to do something honorable is Paul Stalteri, he needs to call it quits and make room for a younger defender with better reflexes to get more playing time in the up coming games. Stalteri screwed up twice today and one of those screw ups cost us the game. Canada is a different team with Hart as the coach and this should be recognize by the CSA directors and offer him the permanent job, but then again that might be too logical for the CSA to do. The comment about Stalteri is completely ignorant and unfair. His "mistake" didn't cost us the game because he didn't make a mistake it was the ref who made a "mistake" or more likely took a payday. If you want to criticize Stalteri when he has a poor game or makes real mistakes fine, but this shows you are completely biased in your assessment of him. Stalteri can not control having phantom calls against him any more than any other player. The only player who made a mistake on this play was Jakovic who is the new wonderboy on this forum (I also think he is a great addition to the team but just pointing out the difference in assessing players people like to those they dislike). If he doesn't make a schoolboy error by completely missing the ball into the box and making the ridiculous decision of trying to head it out when he should have stopped it with his chest and controlled it, the ball doesn't go near Martinez/Stalteri and the ref would have had to find another play to give Honduras a penalty. BTW no Honduran was near Jakovic on this play and even if he had successfully headed it out it would have been dangerous as opposed to contolling the ball and retaining possession. He has to make better decisions than that if he is going to be our starting CB for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddym Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by tmcmurph Ironically that was Sutton's best game that I've seen him play in a long time. The one position that I was very concerned about was a rock today. I thought the Honduran keeper Escober was a rock, whereas Sutton had nothing to do (okay, two shots). What a rock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I too am unsure why people are so critical of stalteri.... he was perfectly positioned, tight on martinez. Jakovic whiffed on the header, and martinez's only play was a desparate overhead bicycle kick. its not his fault the ref blew it. Stalteri seems very solid to me. rarely caught out of position. efficient defending. moves the ball reasonably well. true, he is not a huge danger going forward. however, i believe alot of that is related to the fact johnson or peters could not trouble the right back. as they didn't put the defense under pressure, there was little room for stalteri to get forward to put crosses in. geez. if you compare stalteri to wynne who sometimes plays at right back for the US, what an improvement stalteri is. we didn't win because once we got behind...we couldn't break honduras down, didn't take the chances we had, and were poor on set pieces in spite of having a slew of corners.... i rewatched the match....certainly in my opinion, canada was the better side and is the better side. however, if you don't take your chances, you lose. concacaf has dubious refereeing...we all know that...we should stop whinning and concentrate on beating the opponents and taking the poor calls as they come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 More quotes from that Sportnset article: "I think a lot of them feel a little bit hard done (by)," Hart said of his players. "To lose a game really on something that is not in your control is always heart-breaking. "We lost our concentration because of that call in the first half. But they can keep their heads high because the way they played in the second half, on another day they could have easily got the result." But the pill was harder to swallow in the wake of the 2007 tournament exit. "The same thing happens over and over," said Hutchinson. "I thought it was a horrible call from the ref. I think if he looks it himself, he should be ashamed. That's all I can say." "It seems to be one-sided when it comes to the calls that we're not getting and the calls that they've been getting," said goalie Greg Sutton. "It's frustrating because you work hard and then it's something that's basically out of your hands that costs you the game. That's not the way these games should finish." Said Hart: "That's the general feeling in the dressing room but I'm not going to use the referees as an excuse. We didn't score and we had the opportunities to do that." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Soju JDG's comments summed it up. How can anyone defend that officiating that's absolutely brutal. Martinez was obviously attempting an overhead kick which if it wasn't obvious enough from his own movement was made obvious by the position of the ball. Stalteri had his arm for a second but didn't impede Martinez's strike at the ball in any way, didn't haul Martinez down, and didn't touch the ball. The ref didn't even wait for Martinez to appeal to see if he got it right he IMMEDIATELY blew for a PK. Is it hard for anyone to believe at this point the refs are being instructed to cheat us? Our players think it, our coaches think it, hell even neutral fans see it now. The Guz is making serious trouble for himself. Not a big deal. Not like he can't afford the fine or is going to miss any important match over the next year or two. You know what? Even had that ball hit Diesel's arm (which it didn't) I would find it hard to call a penalty on the play. If some wank brings his boot up towards my face excuse-fu'king-me but I'm going to protect myself. The little holding-tugging between the men was going both ways so don't expect a call from that either which to Martinez's credit he didn't. Even had the ball gone in the net it was a dangerous boot which put it there and should have been called back. Yeah I know, I'm dreaming. Honduras did a great job of holding and tried to break out on a swift counter a couple of times (to some threat I might add) but damn we got close a few times I think as well not to mention a couple of those cracking saves. Hard to break down an organized side with 11 men behind the ball. So congrat Honduras. They were gifted a goal but didn't earn a penalty on a dive so good for them, and they hung on to win. Hope they enjoy their next home match in Chicago. (Once, once I'd like to see our guys walking out of the tunnel for the pre-game not being down 1-nil to a CONCACRAP opponent). P.S. Tip of the hat to all the lads. They played well, with spirit, and not without some style. Good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by teddym I thought the Honduran keeper Escober was a rock, whereas Sutton had nothing to do (okay, two shots). What a rock! Escober was MoTM in my opinion. Excellent match. Sutton's two saves in particular that one on the Honduran break where he was all alone rushing the attacker was top class and recklessly brave. He had 1/10th of a second to make his decision and put himself into harms way to make that save and keep the match alive. Outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Cheeta The Guz is making serious trouble for himself. Not a big deal. Not like he can't afford the fine or is going to miss any important match over the next year or two. I think we need more of this. The CSA probably isn't going to kick up a stink. Sometimes I wish we weren't so all damn Canadian (polite) when we get the shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 The one bright side for me is that Sutton had one of his better games. I don't think he really belongs in the goalkeeping picture in the future, but hopefully someone noticed and gives him a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I don't think I will even read this thread!!! The call was NOT e peno, not close. However, we were beaten both technically and tactically yesterday by a desperate team (ie, strife in Honduras). We created chances and failed to take them. The ones we did create all seemed to be on the wrong foot, or played behind the attacking player. They defended Gerba, the top of the box, and crosses perfectly. Our boys showed lack of creativity and ingenuity. Our build-up was too slow, and our speed of play in the attacking third was almost always 3-5 touches when 2 should have been enough. Learning curve for Jakovic was established. Diesel needs to go. Simpson is far too much like Beckham - no pace, can't dribble past a defender. Gerba needs a partner when being collapsed on as Honduras quite appropriately did. Sad day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by guppy People are lauding Honduras and criticizing Canada's play...meanwhile corners were 9-1 Canada. Possession 55-45.. shots on goal 8-2. Shots 12-3. Hopefully USA make short work of them .. I hate them more than any team, thank goodness USA knows how to finish them off! Exactly. People saying Honduras deserved it are the deluded ones. Before the penalty, we were out playing them and had the better chances. After the penalty, we were out playing them and had the better chances. The penalty call was the only thing Honduras did of any significance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Cheeta Escober was MoTM in my opinion. Excellent match. Klukowski imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoccerfanatiQ Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Beside the honduras goalie Escobar , I have no respect to the rest of Honduras team . Not only they're not so good, they're freaking cry babies. I totaly agree with Lurker. I hope that the canadian team will remember that Honduras has no respect for Canada and did not deserve that win, so next time they will play with more passion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by bettermirror Learning curve for Jakovic was established. Diesel needs to go. Simpson is far too much like Beckham - no pace, can't dribble past a defender. Gerba needs a partner when being collapsed on as Honduras quite appropriately did. I thought Simpson had his best game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly The comment about Stalteri is completely ignorant and unfair. His "mistake" didn't cost us the game because he didn't make a mistake it was the ref who made a "mistake" or more likely took a payday. If you want to criticize Stalteri when he has a poor game or makes real mistakes fine, but this shows you are completely biased in your assessment of him. Stalteri can not control having phantom calls against him any more than any other player. The only player who made a mistake on this play was Jakovic who is the new wonderboy on this forum (I also think he is a great addition to the team but just pointing out the difference in assessing players people like to those they dislike). If he doesn't make a schoolboy error by completely missing the ball into the box and making the ridiculous decision of trying to head it out when he should have stopped it with his chest and controlled it, the ball doesn't go near Martinez/Stalteri and the ref would have had to find another play to give Honduras a penalty. BTW no Honduran was near Jakovic on this play and even if he had successfully headed it out it would have been dangerous as opposed to contolling the ball and retaining possession. He has to make better decisions than that if he is going to be our starting CB for years to come. My comment is not ignorant at all, is based on observing an experience player like Staltieri make the same mistake over and over again. Yes, I agree that he's positioning is very good, he's ball control is good too and so is he's passing but you are forgetting that a CB's main job is to win the one v ones with the CFs. He is an experience player and he should know better than having his hands all over defenders inside the box, the referee was garbage of course but he made up with that call for that call he didn't make in the first 3 minutes of the game when Staltiery committed an other penalty by doing the same thing. I know Jakovic made a huge mistake and I know he had a lousy game but his excuse is that he's young and this game was a learning curve for him. I've seen mature central defenders committing these kind of fouls as they get older because their timing is not there any more, it's only natural that time catches up with you and your body won't respond as quickly as it used to and at that level a fraction of a second counts for a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Leaving aside the possibility that the ref is blind on one eye and consequently lacks depth perception I agree with VPjr that Diesel has got to go. He costs us one PK and the game, and it could have been 2 PK if the ref would have called his takedown in the box in the 3rd minute also. Can De Jong take over that position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I think Stalteri was still our best option at RB for this Gold Cup, if Hart valued winning the tournament over developing new talent. But there is no reason to call him again, unless we want to get him a few more caps to earn the record. De Jong is very much a left-sided player, in the same vein as Simpson or Kluka, so I don't think he is the solution. In fact, unless Peters steps up, RB is our position of least depth for the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miche Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 My opinion on the "honour" issue can be summed up with an anecdote. A Honduran family goes to watch a soccer match. Their team scores a goal and the fans cheer and sing. Suddenly, a player goes down for three minutes. The son says to his father: "is he ok dad?" The father replies: "yes son, he's just doing everything he can to win. He dove and is now pretending to be injured so that the least amount of soccer is played, so we can win." The son absorbs this information and thinks to himself: "wow, I want to be a soccer player. I want to score, and I want to dive and pretend to be injured, cause the way to winning is by bending the rules, and bending the truth." A Canadian family goes to a hockey game. Suddenly, a player dives (funny how the same word can be polar opposites) in front of a slap slap and gets the puck right in the mouth. He loses a few teeth and has a bloody lip. He goes to the locker room, gets stitches and is back on the ice in 5 minutes. The son says to the dad: "he lost his teeth and he's gonna play again?!" The dad replies: "of course son, he needs to battle through injuries for his team, they can never give up." The son absorbs this information and thinks to himself: "wow, I want to be a hockey player. I want to sacrifice my body for my team, cause the way to winning is through hard work and sacrifice." If my kid's soccer coach ever told my kid to take a dive and fake an injury so that he could put an f-ing plastic medal around his neck, I would come out of the stands and punch him in the mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Goon tactics to intimidate an opponent so that they are reluctant to use their skills to full advantage is cheating every bit as much as diving, Miche, and Canadian hockey and the North European soccer style that tends to be emphasized by the CSA have plenty of that going on. Everybody tries to get an edge in pro sports one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 ^ I agree with your premise but not so much the notion that Canada plays a goonish style recently. I can't think of any examples of goonery from Canada's matches in this GC, nor anything in WCQ as remotely thuggish as Radzinski being slammed into the hoardings by Honduras in Montreal. In the last match, Honduras was the team persistently fouling guys like Hutch and de Guzman because they were so often in possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schafer Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by bettermirror Learning curve for Jakovic was established. Diesel needs to go. Simpson is far too much like Beckham - no pace, can't dribble past a defender. Gerba needs a partner when being collapsed on as Honduras quite appropriately did. Dunno about the Beckham comparison. If he was actually like Beckham I think that would be a huge plus, but the crucial difference is that Beckham knew he couldn't beat defenders with pace/dribbling and adjusted his game accordingly. Simpson, as a 26 year old, still doesn't seem aware of his limitations and so we see his predictable kick and run/cross into the first defender routine. That being said he and Klukowski were causing some problems for Honduras. Speaking of which, I was a little disappointed that the team didn't start utilizing Klukowski's crosses earlier in the match. Obviously you don't want to become too dependent on him or one dimensional, but his delivery from wide is pretty dangerous and with the way Hutchinson and Johnson were drifting into the box, I think if Klukowski had been firing those in from the beginning of the match instead of waiting until midway through the 2nd half, perhaps we would have gotten more out of them. Honduras never really looked comfortable with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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