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GC - July 18th - Canada vs. Honduras


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You guys have a decent side that lacks a bit of personality. You had a tough call go against you but you didn't manage to score. Stay honest, stay tough and things will go your way. But it's down to the players on the field. Bad calls happen against everyone, not only you.

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Goin out on a limb boys...

Just got back from the pub, read the thread and need to say that Stalteri was at fault for the penalty. From the one angle, he is holding on to the Honduran's arm as he goes up for the bycicle. Seemingly pulling him. The ball then hits his chest and goes up.

IF the ref wanted to great us, he would have called Stalteri on the 2nd minute incident. Thought the Ref did good today. It was our lack of finishing that did us in, not the ref or CONCACAF.

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My opinion is that Stalteri did have a hand on Martinez. Martinez had a hand on Stalteri as well, and neither was enough to really influence the play. It was the sort of utterly inconsequential hand play that happens on every high cross into the area. Run the replays of Canada's crosses and corners and see that the Hondurans had just many hands on Canadian strikers. And there's nothing wrong with that.

As an old defender, if I ever got that call against me, I would probably black out and come to thirty minutes later with my hands covered in blood and surrounded by shocked teammates. It was an atrocious and indefensible call.

(As was the referee's call to randomly stop play when Canada had possession and a Honduran had been rolling around after a dive for the last minute and a half. He essentially made that up - he had no right to stop play there and no right to strip Canada of possession and impose a drop ball.)

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quote:Originally posted by puskas

Guppy, he made one questionable call, Canada did the rest. It wasnt bad call after bad call like say Chile vs Argentina when the u-20 world cup was in Canada.

Plus usually it is kinda hard to win a game when you cant find the back of the net. Dont you think?

As painful as it is to admit, you're totally right. We had tons of possession, tons of opportunity, great positioning, and no finishing. There was one stupid call by that ref (a man that everyone already saw is F*****D up from that Mex-Pan game). But that wasn't the only thing that lost us that game. Take away that call, and we would have still probably ended up going to penalties.

We couldn't put the little round thing into the big net thing. That's it, that's all. But, as opposed to our old defensive days, we show great potential for the future. Ali G. Bernier. JDG. These guys will score in World Cup Qualifying. We will go to Brazil 2014.

I Still Believe.

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quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

As for honour, Honduras didn't really do anything much here that was dishonourable. yes, Chavez was pathetic, but we drew as many fouls as they did. What sucked was that the official made a terrible, incorrect call. That had nothing to do with Honduras' honor.

We don't stay down for ages when we're not injured. IMO that's pretty unsportsmanlike and dishonourable.
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Guest speedmonk42
quote:Originally posted by sporty

You guys have a decent side that lacks a bit of personality. You had a tough call go against you but you didn't manage to score. Stay honest, stay tough and things will go your way. But it's down to the players on the field. Bad calls happen against everyone, not only you.

Not too many forums on the internet basically talk in advance about when the ****ty PK will be called, and be right about it.

Not too many teams have the announcers blatantly talk about how this is a pattern.

It is pretty hard for any team to have a crap call like that psychologically (again and again) and then play against 10 men standing on the 18.

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the score 1 bad call v 0 finish.

Someone said it here. A good team plays beyond bad officiating.

How many times did we get the ball in the box and did not finish?

What is the conversion rate for corners for a world class team? (I seriously don't know)

Would Man U, Italy, . . . . . score 1 out of every 8????

Simpson worked hard to make a cross and it went to no one. Was the Forward not there? or was it to the wrong place? I could not tell from the TV Angle in the pub.

How many cross should be converted? (i don't know)

We played much better under Hart than Mitchel. I think we all can agree. Could we have played better, Yes. Are we making improvements as a Nation? I would say most years yes.

Goal opportunities were there, YES. But at the end of the day only one stat counts. the number of times the keeper pulls the ball out of the mesh.

Are we a team to be reckoned with in CONCACAF. On a good day yes. Today was not a good day.

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tough result today. We didn't deserve to lose but to say we deserved to win is a bit of a stretch.

The positives:

- this group definitely is comfortable possessing the ball and is fairly well organized. They keep their shape pretty consistently.

- JDG is a very good box to box holding midfielder. WE DESPERATELY NEED A PLAYER OF HIS EQUIVALENT TALENT (and with equivalent soccer smarts) PLAYING IN AN ATTACKING MID ROLE.

- Simpson impressed me. He doesn't have a lot of flare but he's a solid wing player that allows us to mix up our look. Simpson's crossing ability means we don't always have to play through the middle of the park. it would be nice to have someone on the right side of midfield who could provide the same type of wide play with some consistency.

- I believe we have found our head coach for the next 5 years. the stability that will create for this program is a huge positive.

The Negatives:

- Diesel had another poor game when we could least afford it. Canada is going to need to find a Right Back of the future SOON!

- While we are able to dominate possession, we don't have the quality of player we need in the attacking mid role to be able to make high quality penetrating through passes to put our forwards in on goal. Hutch isn't the guy (I'd like to see him on the right side in a wider role rather than as an attacking central midfielder). Bernier is definitely not that guy. I'm not convinced DeRo is that guy. We don't have a legit #10 but that's what he need urgently or else we will continue to struggle to score with consistency against better teams.

- Are we really better than 4th or 5th best in CONCACAF? This was nowhere near Honduras' best squad and they were not overly troubled by us today. We were the better team and we did get done in by a very iffy call but we were not really that dangerous.

- our set plays were bad throughout the tournament...today that really hurt the team. Traditionally, Canada could always be counted on for good set play execution but that trait has gone out the window.

- Our young forwards and midfielders need to expedite their development. I'm skeptical about Peters, mildly hopeful regarding Johnson and cautiously optimistic about Jackson. We need a few more options (Hoillett? Ornoch? Edwini-Bonsu?)

I'm disappointed but not devastated. This squad redeemed itself somewhat after the WCQ debacle and I think the biggest positive is that we have a decent foundation to build upon. The next 2-3 years are going to be very important. I sincerely believe Hart will be named the full time head coach. I don't know if he can do both that job and the TD job but I do know that, with Stephen at the helm of the MNT, we can actually start planning for the future right now, rather than going through a rebuilding / "getting a lay of the land" phase that would happen if we brought in an outsider with a more impressive CV. The WNT is going through that rebuilding phase right now with Morace.

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quote:Originally posted by Vancouversoccerman

The Americans have shown you got to play your way to the top of the CONCACAF table to get the "free" calls.

You starting on with that bull **** again about how certain teams have earned the right to get favoured by refs? It really isn't a valid argument.

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quote:Originally posted by puskas

Yeah but even at 0-0, we were kept to keep possession outside the danger areas while Hondurus was able to get it to some dangerous spots on the counter attack fairly easily. I think this has been a tail so far of solid defending by the back players of Hondurus and Canada's defense not matching them when needed. Hondurus gets to chances far easier, even at 0-0.

You're joking right? Aside from one or two chances in the first half, Canada was controlling the game. The second half, Honduras just dug in for the most part.

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I've heard and read some comments saying that we didn't score and hence lost the game. I say, let us not forget that honduras didn't score either. The PK was just a gift by the referee hence it does not represent honduras being better. When a referee decides the winner of a game as in this case, he does not decide which team is better.

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quote:Originally posted by puskas

Guppy, he made one questionable call, Canada did the rest. It wasnt bad call after bad call like say Chile vs Argentina when the u-20 world cup was in Canada.

And that call cost us the match. What don't you understand? We were the better team. We had control of this game, had more chances. It was unjustified.

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quote:Originally posted by nolbertos

I'm curious to hear G-L's and other's opinions of the full match, but if we can't even beat a Honduras B-team, with our full strength squad, something is wrong and amiss in the tournament, and most likely provides more argument on why we didn't make it to the HEX and won't make it in the next round of WCQ, if we don't get better with player pool and skills.

This wasn't our full strength squad.

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I'm going to put down a few notes before I go to bed after a long day getting to Philly.

1. The boys should get an A for effort, but a D for execution.

2. A few of the Honduran players should be ashamed of themselves for their shenanigans. I don't know how Klukowski and McKenna didn't lash out on at least one occasion, I would have.

3. I'm going to pull an Arsene Wenger and say that I didn't see the penalty call (but Canuck in Boston said that it was a handball...will have to see the replay).

4. The possession stuff was pretty but every once in a while, I'd just wish they go route 1. I know that sentiment won't be popular.

5. Man Alive. How many Hondurans are there? They were everywhere (we were probably outnumbered 15,000 to 40).

6. if you ever go to Philly, AVOID Geno's. Crappiest cheesesteak and freedom fries ever.

Surprisingly, I'm over the loss already. Good night.

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I seem to have the urge to say this after every big competitive loss, but if we can't figure a way to definitively beat the likes of Honduras, we will never ever be able to get anywhere as a national program. Forget all the friendlies against Cyprus and Estonia, South Africa and Scotland. We are trying to qualify out of CONCACAF; that's where the code has to be cracked. If it requires minor gamesmanship, then so be it. If it requires more brain and less brawn, then so be it. If it requires more tact and less talent, I'm even OK with that too. Just get the job done. Play Costa Rica, Guatemala, Honduras, Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago as often as possible. Beg Mexico and the US to play us too. Stop pretending (but not hoping)that we are the third best team in CONCACAF. It's delusional at best. We are lucky if we are a top ten team at the moment. And, for the love of God, stop blaming so many losses on CONCACAF officiating. I hate it as much as the next Canadian, but I also know, in my heart, that this team should have scored at least one irrefutable goal, if not two, to give them a chance to win this and not put these kinds of games in the hands of "fate" or poor officiating. We can, and should be, winning these things through our own determination, taking control of our own destiny. If we aren't scrambling away in our own box, if they aren't anywhere near the front of goal, then we don't give any opportunity for bad officiating or the opposing players' simulation to be able to take away a result from us. If we could ever score two goals in the run of play and have a cushion in a big game, then we wouldn't need to worry so much about getting screwed on the odd call. Then we might be closer to a top ten team, maybe even good enough for the hex. God help us all.

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Like I said earlier, great teams overcome bad refs and bad breaks. They find a way to win. We are not a great team (yet). We have played very well this tournament. Our young players are getting better. I like Hart's decisions and tactics. Even when his subs leave me scratching my head we get chances out of them.

One thing we really need to work on is our fast break. I love to watch us doing the possession routine all the way down the field and then look for chances but we also need to develop a fast break. We had several but we stopped passed the ball back and set up the attack. We should try to push up all the way when we get a fast break opportunity.

Disappointed but hopeful. We can't rely on 1 person (Ali) to score all the time. We need more than 1 consistent finisher. We will not make the next WC by scoring one goal a game average.

Ironically that was Sutton's best game that I've seen him play in a long time. The one position that I was very concerned about was a rock today.

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To go out 2 tournaments in a row because of bad calls by the ref warrants some kind of an investigation. I'm not sure what kind of recourse is available but our association cannot continually put up with this sh*t.

As for the way Canada played. It was very patient and they didn't force a play that wasn't there. Crosses were put in but handled well by Honduras. It would have been interesting to see what Friend could have provided in there. We've always lacked someone who could take a chance or two from long distance or at least had the confidence to do so.(De Ro perhaps is an exception) This is an area I'd like to see addressed as well as the quality of our set plays. The team play is solid but sometimes you need that stroke of genius or selfish play(De Ro comes to mind again)that often makes the difference.

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quote:Originally posted by I_AM_CANADIAN

We don't stay down for ages when we're not injured. IMO that's pretty unsportsmanlike and dishonourable.

Maybe we should start learning how to exploit the rules flexibilities and be like everybody else around the world when comes down to doing what is needed for winning. We are too naive playing this game in the world stage and until we learn once and for all that fairness or honour has nothing to do with winning, we're doomed to continue to watch international competitions final stages on TV and at home.

Wake up and smell the coffee Canada.

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quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

Not too many forums on the internet basically talk in advance about when the ****ty PK will be called, and be right about it.

Not too many teams have the announcers blatantly talk about how this is a pattern.

It is pretty hard for any team to have a crap call like that psychologically (again and again) and then play against 10 men standing on the 18.

Yeah, it is quite depressing that the one thing we were worried about heading into this match was (other than possible injuries) incompetent officiating.

I didn't think we were as sharpe in the 1st half that we needed to be, and we didn't take our chances (although Honduras bunkering against us after the goal made it quite difficult). But I could so easily do without the phantom penalty call. And to think I thought for a second that the Ref was improved because he didn't fall for the Martinez dive in the box 2 minutes in.

I feel bad for the players, who deserve better than this. Seeing this quote from Julian says it all:

"I was really disappointed with the officiating, with this particular game. If I had a chance to make a tackle on this ref, I wouldn't even think twice," said a disgusted midfielder Julian de Guzman.

"It's pretty obvious that would be bad business for CONCACAF if Canada was to make it to the finals or semifinals. I mean we don't bring in the crowds that CONCACAF would like," he added.

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JDG's comments summed it up. How can anyone defend that officiating that's absolutely brutal. Martinez was obviously attempting an overhead kick which if it wasn't obvious enough from his own movement was made obvious by the position of the ball. Stalteri had his arm for a second but didn't impede Martinez's strike at the ball in any way, didn't haul Martinez down, and didn't touch the ball. The ref didn't even wait for Martinez to appeal to see if he got it right he IMMEDIATELY blew for a PK. Is it hard for anyone to believe at this point the refs are being instructed to cheat us? Our players think it, our coaches think it, hell even neutral fans see it now.

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quote:Originally posted by psychler

For what it is worth, this is what the goal scorer is quoted as saying on the on Gold Cup website:

"All referees make mistakes and are human," Martinez said through a translator. "I didn't think it was a penalty, but I was able to score."

There you go, some people here probably think that the honorable thing to do by Martinez should have been missing the penalty shot to prove that he is an honorable man.

IMO if there's somebody who need to do something honorable is Paul Stalteri, he needs to call it quits and make room for a younger defender with better reflexes to get more playing time in the up coming games. Stalteri screwed up twice today and one of those screw ups cost us the game. Canada is a different team with Hart as the coach and this should be recognize by the CSA directors and offer him the permanent job, but then again that might be too logical for the CSA to do.

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I have to be honest here, I really did not like the way we played today. From the opening whistle Honduras did an awesome job of shutting down our midfield. They were patient, hung back, and hit us on the counter-attack. They played the perfect game to grind out a win against us, and we had no counter to their tight play in the midfield. We created few chances and those that we created we could not finish.

The reffing was absolutely horrible, but Honduras did everything right against one of the toughest midfields in CONCACAF. Credit should go to their coaching staff, because Hart and our team had no answers to put the ball in the net.

Some of the comments VPjr have made are spot on. We could certainly use a Jon deGuzman type player in an attacking midfield role.

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