Player Ratings: Canada vs El Salvador July 7th

[earlimus]

Just seeing if anyone wants to chip in on post Gold Cup matches. I've grown quite accustomed to reading these after matches on goal.com but they haven't done one for the Canada matches yet.

I uh... didn't actually see either match over here in Spain... so I can't do one. Still, I'd love to be able to read about how the boys played, and this allows you to judge each performance.

[gator]

I think if you read the match thread you can get a consensus of opinion on player performance! I like the idea of rating the individual players from 1 to 10 like they do in the UK and Europe!

[loyola]

Sutton 5

Kluka 7

Jakovic 7

Mckenna 7

Stalteri 6

Simpson 6

Atiba 9

JDG 8

Bernier 8

Johnson 7

Gerba 7

[gator]

^ You have Bernier and Atiba 1 point higher than I would rate them, but I generally agree with your ratings loyola!

[shaku_bert]

^^

We watched a completely different match, mate.

Klukowski played superbly, Sutton didn't put a foot wrong, and what did Patrice do? I do agree with Simpson and Stalteri ratings. Simpson is a bit of a one trick pony and Stalteri made some errors, which he quickly covered up for without causing too much concern.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by shaku_bert

^^

We watched a completely different match, mate.

Klukowski played superbly, Sutton didn't put a foot wrong, and what did Patrice do? I do agree with Simpson and Stalteri ratings. Simpson is a bit of a one trick pony and Stalteri made some errors, which he quickly covered up for without causing too much concern.

I didn't like his decision to race off his line late in the first half when it appeared that McKenna had the ES forward heading in the direction of the corner flag on that over the top pass, but I don't have the benefit of my match recording for that one.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by shaku_bert

^^

We watched a completely different match, mate.

Klukowski played superbly, Sutton didn't put a foot wrong, and what did Patrice do? I do agree with Simpson and Stalteri ratings. Simpson is a bit of a one trick pony and Stalteri made some errors, which he quickly covered up for without causing too much concern.

Sutton??? Caught in no-man's land at the end of the first half and if the ball had hit his hands he would've been gone. Terrible miskick in the second half and add to that an ackward save where he didn't look really comfortable. He didn't have a good game yesterday.

I've wrote about Bernier in the other thread, solid game. Look at that game again and tell me how many times he lost the ball.

I agree with Kluka, I could've given him a 7 but I felt like a 6 was fair.

[Lomonty]

Sutton 5 - Came up when called upon with wasn't often but the distribution come on?

Kluka 7- Calm and cool, always moved the ball quickly and efficiently

Jakovic 7- Nver had a close up on him all game as a CB that's good thing

Mckenna 7 - Really impresses me with his pose on the ball and vision upfield, never expected it much

Stalteri 5 - Defensively adequate at this stage but absolutely no offensive flair, Give Peters a half hour against Costa Rica

Simpson 6 - A threat with his pace but didn't impact the game much else

Atiba 9- Tremendous composure and vision showed on the pitch wish he would shoot more

JDG 9- Bounce back from a uneventful first game like when all knew he would sprayed the ball all over the pitch controlled the midfield with his dribbling he is our conductor

Bernier 7- played a decent game, could have a great game if he scored

Johnson 7- KId's grown leaps and bounds since the U20, again has to finish

Gerba 7- Does what he does best, I have seen a chink in his armour cannot win balls in the air

[El Hombre]

<mod> Guys (Earlimus) please remember to not post results</u> in thread titles. I'd change it but I don't have that power right now </mod>

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA

I didn't like his decision to race off his line late in the first half when it appeared that McKenna had the ES forward heading in the direction of the corner flag on that over the top pass, but I don't have the benefit of my match recording for that one.

Yeah, I have no idea what he was doing on that play and am thankful that the ball didn't hit his hands. The El Salvadoran miss (of his hands and the net) saved the CSA a few quid on Kenny S's flight in from Norway to Miami, since Sutton would have been red-carded and we'd be left with one keeper available for that match.

Other than that he was fine, but that one play scared the hell out of me, especially as McKenna looked like he had it covered anyway.

[shaku_bert]

Alright, putting my hands up. Sutton did make the two errors that people noted. I was out of line saying that he didn't put a foot wrong.

But he kept a clean sheet and made the saves when it counted. When a keeper does that, you don't expect to see him rated the worst player on the pitch by a long way.

That's like when a striker spends the entire match with his thumb up his butt but then nips ins to score a poacher's goal that wins the game and then giving him 0 out of ten cuz he was lazy <I'm not talking about Gerba>. It seems weird to do that. He did what he is supposed to do - score.

Sutton should be expected to keep a clean sheet and make saves. That's what he did.

[loyola]

I'm not gonna give a high mark to a keeper who had virtually nothing to do all game and messed up 2 easy play. I'm sorry but Sutton didn't played well yesterday and we're lucky it didn't cost us (that would've been completly undeserve). He wasn't horrible (2 or a 3) but he was far from what we expect from him.

[Lurker]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

I'm not gonna give a high mark to a keeper who had virtually nothing to do all game and messed up 2 easy play. I'm sorry but Sutton didn't played well yesterday and we're lucky it didn't cost us (that would've been completly undeserve). He wasn't horrible (2 or a 3) but he was far from what we expect from him.

I agree. He looks a little rusty to me right now, in his play and decision making. Despite all these positive results I'm still concerned how our back line and Sutton are going to hold up against a good organized attack. Hopefully the Tico's will provide a good test.

[BearcatSA]

I liked how our midfield three closed guys down really well and so stifled service to the ES forwards. As much as I like the looks of the McKenna/Jakovic partnership, their job was made a whole lot easier by the defensive work in midfield.

That's the best I've seen of Hutchinson in a long while (definitely since the last GC): much more involved offensively and thus playing to his strengths better. De Guzman was strong in a number of areas, notably positionally. Bernier's defensive capabilities are underrated somewhat: even if he's not ideal starting XI material to some, I think he's a good guy coming off the bench to provide defensive support.

Glad to see Gerba's (and Bernier's) opportunism punish a horrible defensive play: if one of our guys did that (especially one of the whipping boys), this forum would have exploded.

[loyola]

You forgot that in both games he cleared two balls (one from his hand against Jamaica, the other on a back pass yesterday) right on an opponent who's 35 yards away from goal.

As for the uncomfortable save part, well Craig Forrest did mention that and I have to agree with him on that assessment. He was caught between two minds (trying to catch it or tipping it over the bar) and mishandled the shot into the goal.

I'm sorry but I find him really shacky at the moment.

BTW, IMO Sutton most difficult play of the tournament wasn't one of those saves against Jmaica, it was that take on the last corner of the game against Jamaica. That was excellent goalkeeping!

[matthew]

I have to agree that Sutton was dire last night. The most danger we were in was often his doing.

He didn't move his feet at all on the that long range shot. It was what 30 yards, not a ton of pace. It was going right in the top corner, but he was caught very flat-footed and nearly palmed it into his own net. And his decision to come for a ball in the air that wasn't even in the box was a near disaster.

He was superb agaisnt Jamaica, but his distribution was poor in both games. I can live with that since he's not match sharp, but looking rusty in the shot-stopping and decision making worries me.

I think Bernier is not getting enough credit. I thought he was our best mid against Jamaica and while Atiba and DeGuzman were fantastic against ES, Bernier was above average again. I think he's done very well. Now if only he could finish.

I also though each of our defenders had some small issues against ES. Nothing major, but little worries that could have been critical against a better side. They were fine and as a new grouping I expect them to get better. But I think they'll need to get better as we move forward.

cheers,

matthew

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by gator

I think if you read the match thread you can get a consensus of opinion on player performance! I like the idea of rating the individual players from 1 to 10 like they do in the UK and Europe!

Some parts of Europe perhaps.

[Grizzly]

I think a keeper needs to be rated on what he shows ability wise and not the scoresheet. A keeper can make mistakes and often not get punished out of luck or lack of a quality opponent. We saw this many times with Onstad that he would make a lot of mistakes and still keep a clean sheet but often in important games we paid dearly for his mistakes. I would like to see Wagenaar for the game against Costa Rica because Sutton (like Onstad) is a good shot stopper who makes the occasional good save but otherwise makes me really nervous. Sutton has never been more than adequate as a keeper and I only see him as an emergency backup in the future. For those that say Begovic would not be a huge loss that is completely inaccurate. We have very little depth at keeper. Hopefully Hirsch will play regularly with Cottbus and come into form but after him we have no one that is currently above adequate if Begovic plays for Bosnia. We are one Lars injury away from not having an international level keeper and even Lars has not shown that he is consistently a top level international keeper (which is hopefully due to lack of playing time). We would be wise to take the Costa Rica game to see what Wagenaar can do and how much he has improved. I think at the very least he has a lot more long term potential than Sutton.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by matthew

I think Bernier is not getting enough credit. I thought he was our best mid against Jamaica and while Atiba and DeGuzman were fantastic against ES, Bernier was above average again. I think he's done very well. Now if only he could finish.

cheers,

matthew

Couldn't agree more. I don't think I had time to comment on that first game but I also thought Bernier played very well in that game (our best mid on that night IMO). He did create our most dangerous chance coming from midfield with that nice 1-2 pass with Ali in the first half just to see Ricketts coming with a good save.

Bernier has played 2 excellent games so far and if Atiba, JDG and him can continue to build on this, I wouldn't have a problem with Bernier being consider a starter in the middle.

[Keegan]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

I think a keeper needs to be rated on what he shows ability wise and not the scoresheet. A keeper can make mistakes and often not get punished out of luck or lack of a quality opponent. We saw this many times with Onstad that he would make a lot of mistakes and still keep a clean sheet but often in important games we paid dearly for his mistakes. I would like to see Wagenaar for the game against Costa Rica because Sutton (like Onstad) is a good shot stopper who makes the occasional good save but otherwise makes me really nervous. Sutton has never been more than adequate as a keeper and I only see him as an emergency backup in the future. For those that say Begovic would not be a huge loss that is completely inaccurate. We have very little depth at keeper. Hopefully Hirsch will play regularly with Cottbus and come into form but after him we have no one that is currently above adequate if Begovic plays for Bosnia. We are one Lars injury away from not having an international level keeper and even Lars has not shown that he is consistently a top level international keeper (which is hopefully due to lack of playing time). We would be wise to take the Costa Rica game to see what Wagenaar can do and how much he has improved. I think at the very least he has a lot more long term potential than Sutton.

Grizzly I think you are looking in the wrong places if you think Wagenaar or Begovic are an upgrade over Onstad or Sutton mistake wise. Both Begovic and Wagenaar have made their share of mistakes, I'd say Wagenaar is the most known out of all Canadian keepers to make mistakes.

[loyola]

Keegan, Grizzly point is valid. We should take this opportunity to see how Josh has progress. Ok, he made mistakes in the U-20 WC and in the U-23 qualifications but he also played very well during some of the games in those tournaments. The talent is there and we need to find out if he can bring something to our NT after spending a year in England.

On the other side, like Ed said, we need those points to help our FIFA ranking so it's a tough decision when you have to decide if you are going to give some playing time to some unexperienced players. I guess I,m split between the 2 possibilities.

[loyola]

You just don't get it.

The problem people are having is that Sutton make them nervous with his shacky moments. They are seeing those little mistakes as a trend that could lead into weaker goals at some point.

Are you telling us that if a keeper drops 10 balls during a game only to be save by his alert defenders you wouldn't worry? You think a clean sheet in this instance would be enough for the coaching staff not to look at a switch?

No one is saying Sutton has been really bad, but in the circumstances he's been suspect and a bit lucky.

Regarding Sutton footwork, it's been a big criticism of him by various keepers coaches. He's often really slow to move lateraly and that often happens with taller keepers. I think Matthew criticism are pretty good about that play on the long distance shot. No one is looking for Fred Astaire but you have to admit that Sutton footwork sometimes let to be desire.

[loyola]

I made an example for you. I'm not saying Sutton dropped 10 balls. I'm asking you if a keeper drops 10 balls in a game only to be saved by his defense and gets the clean sheet, will you worry?

You are saying we should look at stats to evaluate keepers. This isn't hockey. And a lot of us are thinking Sutton is making too many mistakes so far, so we're a bit worried by that trend.

My example shows you why stats can be misleading. The keeper made 10 mistakes in a game but still had a clean sheet.

Sutton is far from making 10 mistakes per game, but he has made at least 3 yesterday in a game where he had very little to do. If Sutton only miskicked one ball or made 1 or 2 mistakes will receiving a lot of actions, I think we could live with it. But when he isn't busy and still makes nervous play, I think people have a right to criticize him for that.

[Cheeta]

Sutton's rusty, but at this point I think we're married to him for the duration. I would not like to introduce a fresh keeper at this point. Hopefully, every practice, every match he finds his rhythm a little more. Barring injury I won't bring Josh into the equation as we'd be back to starting from zero again.

I think there is definitely some anxiety between the defenders and their keep (worst thing in the world that), but I can't see how that will improve with the introduction of a new face.

By the way, on the play where he rushed out of his box and got clattered by Big Kev (who I completely agree in that he had the situation well in hand) a big tip of the hat McKenna's way for holding his tongue while Sutton railed. Not Kevin's way. He's old school and it has to be considered generous on his part to let Sutton have his say (unjustified I might add) in peace.

[Lurker]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

Sutton's rusty, but at this point I think we're married to him for the duration. I would not like to introduce a fresh keeper at this point. Hopefully, every practice, every match he finds his rhythm a little more. Barring injury I won't bring Josh into the equation as we'd be back to starting from zero again.

I think there is definitely some anxiety between the defenders and their keep (worst thing in the world that), but I can't see how that will improve with the introduction of a new face.

By the way, on the play where he rushed out of his box and got clattered by Big Kev (who I completely agree in that he had the situation well in hand) a big tip of the hat McKenna's way for holding his tongue while Sutton railed. Not Kevin's way. He's old school and it has to be considered generous on his part to let Sutton have his say (unjustified I might add) in peace.

I agree 100%. Keep the back line and Sutton together, let them continue to gel.

Sutton didn't play that bad. He made one bad decision on the play outside the box but that's probably a good thing, it's done now and if anything it probably sharpened him mentally. He hasn't let in a goal yet, which at the end of the day is all that matters. He made a nice save on that looping shot that deserves more credit, that was a harder save than it looked. I think we're just as critical of him because everyone else looked so damn good out there.