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Pozniak Back?


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quote:Originally posted by Rudi

As well, his posts have proven that has no love lost for Mo.

It actually hurt me to post what I did about Mo because its semi-apologetic toward him.

To be clear, I detest Mo [}:)]...saying there is no love lost for Mo is far too polite.

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quote:Originally posted by VPjr

It actually hurt me to post what I did about Mo because its semi-apologetic toward him.

To be clear, I detest Mo [}:)]...saying there is no love lost for Mo is far too polite.

Haha I know. You've told me as much in person. I was sugarcoating it a bit. [:P]

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quote:Originally posted by VPjr

At one time, I believed that Mo didn't rate Canadians. As much as I don't like the man, I've come to realize that Mo's not that stupid.

Players are judged on an individual basis. The idea that you can somehow extrapolate from the fact that a few players who failed to make the grade as regular starters in MLS were of a particular citizenship to a belief that the person cutting them from the roster didn't rate them because they held that citizenship rather than because they were not good enough was always bizarre in logic terms. A lot of people on here preferred shooting the messenger to digesting the unpalatable fact that there were significantly fewer Canadians capable of starting regularly in MLS than had generally been believed prior to the 2007 season because logic and rationality often flies out the window when national pride becomes involved. There is still a hardcore who haven't adjusted their view of the quality of fringe CMNT players and still think Marco Reda didn't get enough of a chance, Andrea Lombardo needed more time to develop etc but most appear to have moved on now.

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quote:Originally posted by loyola

How can we be sure Mo "changed his mind"? Maybe it's just that more Canadians, good enough for MLS, are now available via trades or transfers? Could that be just that?

TFC has been linked with a lot of Canadians players before (Bernier, Radz, Gerba last year before he moved to England, Wagenaar, Stama to name a few) but the fact any of them signed didn't mean TFC didn't care or wasn't trying. So, I don't see the fact that we're now seeing more Canadians in TFC roster as a sign that Mo "changed his mind", maybe it's just a change in some players/teams/market situations that made certain players more accessible than before.

BTW, on the "changing his mind" about Gerba, can we really blame him? Gerba had done very little career wise to deserve that much attention from Mo (at the time he did talk to that fan).

Ok, above you say how do we know we changed his mind and then you add at the bottom that he did but that he can't be blamed for it. You can't have it both ways.

I think Mo's changing of opinion on Canadians extends beyond his Gerba opinion to also to trading back for Adrian Serioux and his other public comments going the "Canadians suck" variety to "ideally we want a Canadian DP" variety, not to mention an increased effort to go after Canadian players overall.

Put it this way, it's far easier to believe that one man's opinion may have changed over a period of a year (especially when it has happened more than one) than the entire Canadian talent pool having done so.

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quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

Players are judged on an individual basis. The idea that you can somehow extrapolate from the fact that a few players who failed to make the grade as regular starters in MLS were of a particular citizenship to a belief that the person cutting them from the roster didn't rate them because they held that citizenship rather than because they were not good enough was always bizarre in logic terms. A lot of people on here preferred shooting the messenger to digesting the unpalatable fact that there were significantly fewer Canadians capable of starting regularly in MLS <s>than had generally been believed</s> represented by Barry McLean prior to the 2007 season because logic and rationality often flies out the window when national pride becomes involved. There is still a hardcore who haven't adjusted their view of the quality of fringe CMNT players and still think Marco Reda didn't get enough of a chance, Andrea Lombardo needed more time to develop etc but most appear to have moved on now.

FYP.

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G-L, the first "change his mind" I was talking about was in reference of canadian players as a whole.

In the case of Gerba alone, I'm just saying he's an enigmatic player who's had his problem so I won't blame Mo for having a change of opinion about him. If Gerba had been Iranian or Russian I would've said the same thing.

As much as I think Mo is a poor scout I doubt nationality comes into play when he's looking at a player.

You have to admit that a difference exist between Mo signing Gerba because he changed his mind about Canadian players and Mo signing Gerba because he now sees something that warrants spending the money to sign him. What I'm trying to say is that Mo in 2006 maybe didn't feel Gerba was good enough for the MLS (for various reasons) and that now he could change his mind after seeing some of his recent performance with his club and CMNT. That would've had absolutely nothing to do with him being Canadian.

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quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

I think Mo's changing of opinion on Canadians extends beyond his Gerba opinion to also to trading back for Adrian Serioux and his other public comments going the "Canadians suck" variety to "ideally we want a Canadian DP" variety, not to mention an increased effort to go after Canadian players overall.

But to be fair, I dont think that I ever heard quotes attributable to Mo that used those kind of words in reference to Canadians. I think that what you are thinking of was a quote in the first year in reference to his evaluation Canadian talent ( very likely intended to be meant in reference to TFC) whereby he rated them as " Just average". Evidence suggest that that was in reference to the group as a whole on the team. Not Canadina talent in general. And given the team record in the first year and the overall talent on that team, there is many ways to interpret at that quote.

As far as Serioux, wasn't he used to acquire another starter, Possibly Obrien? If it was O'brien, well he had pretty decent first year and was likely one the best players on the team. So the trading of Serioux in retrospect would not suggest that there is evidence of a bias against him. At some level, he has to consider his needs and his assessment of the talent rather than just the players nationality.

In short. the recent move put things in a different light for me. I had some reservations about many of his transactions in past and ultimately what it will all mean for the game in canada ( in the bigger picture) but I think that its time to turn the page on this one based on what we are seeing this year. Assumming the JDG acquition comes about, I am not at all disappointed with the current influence of canadian talent on the team. In fact, its exactly what i had hoped for ( maybe even better) TFC when they were first awarded the club. 80-100% canadian content would not be ideal because the foriegn influence can have a beneficial effect on the players and the deveopment of players. It says that you cant sit on your laurels and the fact that your passport says Canada on it. It also says that even though you are Canadian, this is an oportunity but you must earn your way onto the team. Ultimately, its that culture that benefits the programs as whole. Attakora, to me is the best example of what the benifits of TFC/MLS are to Soccer in Canada.

Also, lets not forget that we cannot look at Canadian players in a collective fashion in regards their opportunities with TFC. They are not all equal in talent, their strenghts attributes may not address a certain need for the club and then there are financial consideration which for MLS are restrictive. MLS is at certain level and you can be sure that there are some Canadians that are at the level and others that are not. Many of the departed are playing in places such as USL, Finland and maybe that is the level where they belong. So until I see an example of similar player whom they released who went on an become a mainstay at a comparable level of play, then i will have to reserve judgement on that one as well.

Finally, as I have alluded to in other discussions in this topic, we often forget that Mo cannot possible be the sole decision maker when it comes to player personel decision and acquisitions. You can be sure that coaches have input into the matter and there have been two others who have coached the team. So when one alluded to a bias, you would have to extend that beyond one individual like Mo. Which would infer that a bias against canadians was/is a cultural thing within the orhgnaization and hence a lot less probable.

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quote:Originally posted by loyola

G-L, the first "change his mind" I was talking about was in reference of canadian players as a whole.

In the case of Gerba alone, I'm just saying he's an enigmatic player who's had his problem so I won't blame Mo for having a change of opinion about him. If Gerba had been Iranian or Russian I would've said the same thing.

As much as I think Mo is a poor scout I doubt nationality comes into play when he's looking at a player.

You have to admit that a difference exist between Mo signing Gerba because he changed his mind about Canadian players and Mo signing Gerba because he now sees something that warrants spending the money to sign him. What I'm trying to say is that Mo in 2006 maybe didn't feel Gerba was good enough for the MLS (for various reasons) and that now he could change his mind after seeing some of his recent performance with his club and CMNT. That would've had absolutely nothing to do with him being Canadian.

The Gerba signing is a very good example. Does anyone doubt that, for that salary, Mo's couldn't have had a player with a more proven track record at the club level had he ignored nationality in his decision making. Surely in a planet of four Billion people, I am sure that there are some pretty good fwds out there that can be had for that money. Hell, Colin Samuel proably had a more impressive resume. So the the only thing that Mo could go by is Gerba's play for Canada. Until recently, I wasn't so sure myself. Most of Gerba's goal came against minnows and he wasn't even MItchell's first choice up front at the start of teh last WCQ cycle.

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quote:Originally posted by Free kick

But to be fair, I dont think that I ever heard quotes attributable to Mo that used those kind of words in reference to Canadians. I think that what you are thinking of was a quote in the first year in reference to his evaluation Canadian talent ( very likely intended to be meant in reference to TFC) whereby he rated them as " Just average". Evidence suggest that that was in reference to the group as a whole on the team. Not Canadina talent in general.

The words were "very average" (or might even have been "very, very average") which is a polite of saying they suck. I mean its as much as anyone can say to denigrate talent without actually saying "they are crap". And the Canadian players on the team all took it personally. And given that most of the salary on the team was tied up with underachieving non-Canadians its seemed a bit churlish to say the least to have a go at the cheap end of the roster. Add these type of comments to his pushing for less Canadians, his draft choices, turning down players for trials and opportunities and it begins to paint a picture which is easy for people to see.

quote:

As far as Serioux, wasn't he used to acquire another starter, Possibly Obrien? If it was O'brien, well he had pretty decent first year and was likely one the best players on the team. So the trading of Serioux in retrospect would not suggest that there is evidence of a bias against him.

It suggests that he changed his mind about Serioux though - and he had some "very average" comments about Serioux the first time he traded him, when they were both at New York.

quote:

In short. the recent move put things in a different light for me. I had some reservations about many of his transactions in past and ultimately what it will all mean for the game in canada ( in the bigger picture) but I think that its time to turn the page on this one based on what we are seeing this year.

But we have turned the page - its not Mo's critics who keep bringing up the subject, but rather his defenders. We are saying he has changed. His actions, comments, transactions and some inside info I've been given all indicate so. Again, its not the first time. He was quite positive about Canadians at first, then soured and now is positive again. Well good for him but I'm not sure what the issue is and why people can't leave it at that?

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quote:Originally posted by loyola

G-L, the first "change his mind" I was talking about was in reference of canadian players as a whole.

In the case of Gerba alone, I'm just saying he's an enigmatic player who's had his problem so I won't blame Mo for having a change of opinion about him. If Gerba had been Iranian or Russian I would've said the same thing.

As much as I think Mo is a poor scout I doubt nationality comes into play when he's looking at a player.

You have to admit that a difference exist between Mo signing Gerba because he changed his mind about Canadian players and Mo signing Gerba because he now sees something that warrants spending the money to sign him. What I'm trying to say is that Mo in 2006 maybe didn't feel Gerba was good enough for the MLS (for various reasons) and that now he could change his mind after seeing some of his recent performance with his club and CMNT. That would've had absolutely nothing to do with him being Canadian.

Nobody was suggesting it was. Either Mo has changed his mind on various Canadian players or he hasn't. Whether he was justified in doing so isn't the point - although I don't believe he was. But then I was championing Gerba in 2005 when many people on this board were calling him a dud and wanted him off the Canadian team roster, so what do I know.......

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quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Finally, as I have alluded to in other discussions in this topic, we often forget that Mo cannot possible be the sole decision maker when it comes to player personel decision and acquisitions.

I agree, but then I already alluded to the fact that the change of heart that I was told about late last season was not just restricted to Mo....

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quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

But we have turned the page - its not Mo's critics who keep bringing up the subject, but rather his defenders.

I am by no means a defender of Mo (or anyone). To be honest, I found Mo to be a terrible coach (who didn't?) and a bit of a snake oil salesman as a manager at times.

That said, the "Mo hates Canadians" schtick to me was incredibly simplistic, naive, and even a bit arrogant. So I spoke out against it. It is possible to have an opposing view on that and not be an "apologist".

But yeah, I do bring it up now and again (in jest, like my first post in this thread), but only after months (maybe even years) of filtering through "Mo hates Canadians" posts here.

Yet when I read absurd things like "TFC has changed their minds about Canadian players" it suggests that people have accepted as fact that TFC once "hated" Canadians, it demonstrates to me that I'm not the only one bringing up the subject.

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quote:Originally posted by Rudi

That said, the "Mo hates Canadians" schtick to me was incredibly simplistic, naive, and even a bit arrogant.

Its also a fiction as far as I can tell, as I'm still trying to figure out which posters in particular actually believed it. Let's name names here if we're going to keep posting about it and aim the posts making fun of those people directly at those people, rather just in the general direction of Mo's critics on this board.

quote:

Yet when I read absurd things like "TFC has changed their minds about Canadian players" it suggests that people have accepted as fact that TFC once "hated" Canadians

I think people accepted the fact that certain people in TFC management didn't rate the Canadian talent pool as either being very good or important to have on the roster, and if I can pull out a VPjr phrase (;)), my sources have suggested to me that they have changed their minds on both (and no I have no public statements to confirm this - its not something they are ever likely to admit publicly). This is the part of the problem though, the concept of "didn't rate" keeps getting switched to the concept of some kind of outright hatred, and I still don't know who actually ever believed that was the case.

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quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

This is the part of the problem though, the concept of "didn't rate" keeps getting switched to the concept of some kind of outright hatred, and I still don't know who actually ever believed that was the case.

Yeah, that is the problem. Some equated Mo/TFC "not rating" certain Canadians as proof that they "hated" them.

Anyway, there's nothing more that I can really add to this topic so I'll stop making the sarcastic remarks (which were more in jest than anything), unless of course I am provoked into doing so ;).

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Getting back to the original topic Chris Pozniak is training with the team again according to Ryan Johnston the Sportsnet website:-

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2009/07/09/toronto_fc_san_jose_preview/

Former TFC player Chris Pozniak trained with the team on Thursday, but no word was given on his contract status

Maybe the wheeling and dealing that would accompany the JDG signing if/when it happens needs to be resolved first before they can squeeze him in under the salary cap.

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That has been well documented. The interest right now should probably be primarily over why the Press and Journal snippet about signing with TFC after agreeing a compensation package for the final year on his contract with Dundee hasn't happened yet. Might be a lesson on assuming nothing until the announcement if all the arguments on here prompted by that one sentence in a Scottish newspaper turn out to have been initiated by a journalist with no interest in TFC adding two and two and getting five. I suspect it's still going to happen, however.

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^ it is curious why TFC has not confirmed or denied anything in regards to Poz.

Maybe it hinges on what happens with JDG or if they need to / want to move out a contract first. Not likely but a possibility.

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