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quote:Originally posted by jonovision

You're mostly right, though I do blame the Impact for fielding a weakened squad. You need only look at the subs bench for today's match where you will find 7 of the starters from Thursday including players in the most important positions (keeper, central D, central mid, and forward).

The other thing that bothers me is when people talk about finishing as if it is a matter of luck that will all come out even in the end. It's not. It's a quality, much like possession or team cohesion. Right now, Thursday's match excepted, Toronto seems not to possess this quality. This doesn't make them unlucky, it just makes them worse than they might otherwise be.

To be fair, outside Barretts goal, the main goal scorers (De-Ro and Guevara) have never been the players that lacked finish. Players who can't finish like Vitti or Barrett continued to not finish on numerous occasions on Thursday.

But I agree, finishing is as much a skill, as creating the opportunity itself. In no way am I saying TFC were simply unlucky. You create your own luck, if you shoot directly into the keeper, that's a mistake rather than simply being unlucky.

All I am saying is that compared to last year, TFC has been dictating the pace of pretty much every game. They did what they have to do to win the tournament, 3-1-0 is not a bad record to finish on. And with such a decisive win (6-1), theirs no question in my mind, TFC would have defeated Montreal's A team with that effort.

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quote:Originally posted by kyam

To be fair, outside Barretts goal, the main goal scorers (De-Ro and Guevara) have never been the players that lacked finish. Players who can't finish like Vitti or Barrett continued to not finish on numerous occasions on Thursday.

But I agree, finishing is as much a skill, as creating the opportunity itself. In no way am I saying TFC were simply unlucky. You create your own luck, if you shoot directly into the keeper, that's a mistake rather than simply being unlucky.

All I am saying is that compared to last year, TFC has been dictating the pace of pretty much every game. They did what they have to do to win the tournament, 3-1-0 is not a bad record to finish on. And with such a decisive win (6-1), theirs no question in my mind, TFC would have defeated Montreal's A team with that effort.

No, what you're saying a lot is we fielded our A Team, when if you look at our starters today for the apology match, they had only four of thursdays starters.

You aren't an impact fan, don't tell us who are best players are, alright? You also dont seem to know much about your own team, judging by the terrible mistakes in talking about them you made so far.

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You people are deluded, particularly those from Vancouver who don't recognize what happened here: the talent differential caught up.

When it mattered, a Mexican league team turned up the talent and destroyed the Impact.

When it mattered (and in part because of a fan protest after the last game) an MLS team showed up and destroyed the Impact.

If you look at the US Open Cup history, you'll find there's a pattern here: USL teams loaded with rejects from MLS, while occasionally coached to perform consistently, still aren't as talented as the teams in the MLS.

You could have put Vancouver's first team out there and maybe it's 4-or 5-1 instead of six, but that's about all. THey got blown off the pitch by a team that outworked them, closed them down constantly, and was vastly more talented in possession.

Seriously. Five goals between Amado Guevara and Dwayne DeRosario are indicative of something: there isn't a player in USL as good as either.

That's why TFC won. Because USL is a league full of c-grade chokers. Anyone who's made the mistake of watching it regularly for a while can see that.

As for Krammerhead's usual sociopathic behaviour, well, there's a reason some of us only post here once every two years or so.

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quote:Originally posted by Jeremy Loome

That's why TFC won. Because USL is a league full of c-grade chokers. Anyone who's made the mistake of watching it regularly for a while can see that.

I admit that there's a difference of talent between the two leagues. But not as much as we've seen Thursday and certainly not as much as you pretend it to be.

Because if it was true, how come TFC only managed to beat us by 1 goal or tie us when we have most of our regulars playing?

How come Vancouver won some games against TFC? (and I think they might even have a winning record against TFC?)

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Yes, no one will deny TFC came motivated.

But there's a few people out there who sound like they're saying you bet the Best XI from montral, when thats not true.

THis doesnt show the USL as C Grade Chokers, it shows that a determined MLS team can beat a USL bench 6-1.

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quote:Originally posted by Jeremy Loome

You people are deluded, particularly those from Vancouver who don't recognize what happened here: the talent differential caught up.

When it mattered, a Mexican league team turned up the talent and destroyed the Impact.

When it mattered (and in part because of a fan protest after the last game) an MLS team showed up and destroyed the Impact.

If you look at the US Open Cup history, you'll find there's a pattern here: USL teams loaded with rejects from MLS, while occasionally coached to perform consistently, still aren't as talented as the teams in the MLS.

You could have put Vancouver's first team out there and maybe it's 4-or 5-1 instead of six, but that's about all. THey got blown off the pitch by a team that outworked them, closed them down constantly, and was vastly more talented in possession.

Seriously. Five goals between Amado Guevara and Dwayne DeRosario are indicative of something: there isn't a player in USL as good as either.

That's why TFC won. Because USL is a league full of c-grade chokers. Anyone who's made the mistake of watching it regularly for a while can see that.

As for Krammerhead's usual sociopathic behaviour, well, there's a reason some of us only post here once every two years or so.

This post is completely delusional. TFC won by this margin because we fielded a very weak team and our coach did not care about this game. There have been 12 Voyageur's Cup games in history and only one had a result that was not close and indicative of evenly matched teams. This match was an anomaly and it is pretty easy to see the reason why.

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quote:Originally posted by Trident

No, what you're saying a lot is we fielded our A Team, when if you look at our starters today for the apology match, they had only four of thursdays starters.

You aren't an impact fan, don't tell us who are best players are, alright? You also dont seem to know much about your own team, judging by the terrible mistakes in talking about them you made so far.

You either haven't seen every Voyageurs Cup match or your just really stupid. TFC has dominated every single game they played. They were finally able to get over the lack of finish on Thursday, thats why they won.

This is not the first game where the Impact were completely dominated by TFC, see the 1-nil win May 13th, when TFC played the Impact "A" Team. Score in that game easily could have been 6-nil with the scoring opportunities they had...

6-1 score line? Even 3rd division teams in the UK have more respectable scores against Premiership teams.

TFC played well, you just have too much pride to admit it. And name the "terrible" mistakes I made. If you don't have a legit claim to make, don't make it.

And what happened to all the Impact fans, who claimed that they had a better depth than TFC? If they had depth, the Bench team should have done better.

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quote:Originally posted by Trident

Yes, no one will deny TFC came motivated.

But there's a few people out there who sound like they're saying you bet the Best XI from montral, when thats not true.

THis doesnt show the USL as C Grade Chokers, it shows that a determined MLS team can beat a USL bench 6-1.

Only ONE GUY said that USL were a buncha "C grade chokers"... stop accusing us all of saying that... you don't even know if hes a TFC fan, hes not from Toronto...

Unless you live in a box, everybody on the Voyageur recognizes the Impact's success in the CCL. Thats still not an excuse for a 6-1 scoreline.

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quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

This post is completely delusional. TFC won by this margin because we fielded a very weak team and our coach did not care about this game. There have been 12 Voyageur's Cup games in history and only one had a result that was not close and indicative of evenly matched teams. This match was an anomaly and it is pretty easy to see the reason why.

Dilusional? Don't you know this guy is a respected football journalist? He's as "dilusional" as our fellow V Duane Rollins, with the exception that he does no research or make any attempt to land any stories related to the game here or abroad.

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quote:Originally posted by Jeremy Loome

You people are deluded, particularly those from Vancouver who don't recognize what happened here: the talent differential caught up.

When it mattered, a Mexican league team turned up the talent and destroyed the Impact.

When it mattered (and in part because of a fan protest after the last game) an MLS team showed up and destroyed the Impact.

If you look at the US Open Cup history, you'll find there's a pattern here: USL teams loaded with rejects from MLS, while occasionally coached to perform consistently, still aren't as talented as the teams in the MLS.

You could have put Vancouver's first team out there and maybe it's 4-or 5-1 instead of six, but that's about all. THey got blown off the pitch by a team that outworked them, closed them down constantly, and was vastly more talented in possession.

Seriously. Five goals between Amado Guevara and Dwayne DeRosario are indicative of something: there isn't a player in USL as good as either.

That's why TFC won. Because USL is a league full of c-grade chokers. Anyone who's made the mistake of watching it regularly for a while can see that.

As for Krammerhead's usual sociopathic behaviour, well, there's a reason some of us only post here once every two years or so.

This is exactly the point I'm making. MLS has far more talented players but tactically is weaker. The talent overcame the tactics in this year's Voyageur Cup. And Cummings isn't your average tactical MLS coach either. He plays creatively, and has a tactical setup much different than say...Bruce Arena.

That being said, we need to stay motivated and come out with stronger play in the Prelim CCL round.

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quote:Originally posted by Jeremy Loome

You people are deluded, particularly those from Vancouver who don't recognize what happened here: the talent differential caught up.

When it mattered, a Mexican league team turned up the talent and destroyed the Impact.

When it mattered (and in part because of a fan protest after the last game) an MLS team showed up and destroyed the Impact.

If you look at the US Open Cup history, you'll find there's a pattern here: USL teams loaded with rejects from MLS, while occasionally coached to perform consistently, still aren't as talented as the teams in the MLS.

You could have put Vancouver's first team out there and maybe it's 4-or 5-1 instead of six, but that's about all. THey got blown off the pitch by a team that outworked them, closed them down constantly, and was vastly more talented in possession.

Seriously. Five goals between Amado Guevara and Dwayne DeRosario are indicative of something: there isn't a player in USL as good as either.

That's why TFC won. Because USL is a league full of c-grade chokers. Anyone who's made the mistake of watching it regularly for a while can see that.

As for Krammerhead's usual sociopathic behaviour, well, there's a reason some of us only post here once every two years or so.

I agree with some of what you said, but TFC LOST 2-nil to the Whitecaps. With De-Ro and Guevara's performance, they probably would have pulled off a win this time around... but not 6-1, not even close.

I was going to also argue that the Whitecaps are a far stronger team than the Impact this year. However, I have mixed feelings about that after the Impact's performance against the Caps yesterday.

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quote:Originally posted by TFCRegina

The problem with Jeremy's post is very simply this...he references the US open Cup as proof when in fact the US Open Cup has shown time and time again that there is very little to chose between a top USl side and an MLS side. Indeed, the only 5 goal win in the last 4 years of the open Cup was Seattle, while in USL, beating an MLS side 5-0. In fact, for Jeremy's post to make sense, it would have to be his contention that no MLS side has ever played in the US Open Cup not even the final, being of the opinion that the game mattered. Which is, I think you will admit, quite a contention.

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The US Open Cup is a sham though. It is not a home-away tournament. The team that hosts the single game that is played in each round is the team that pays the most to USSF, essentially making every game a home one for MLS. If it was a home-away series, you'd see better performance from USL teams because they are tactically superior...their talent is certainly not though.

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quote:Originally posted by kyam

You either haven't seen every Voyageurs Cup match or your just really stupid. TFC has dominated every single game they played. They were finally able to get over the lack of finish on Thursday, thats why they won.

This is not the first game where the Impact were completely dominated by TFC, see the 1-nil win May 13th, when TFC played the Impact "A" Team. Score in that game easily could have been 6-nil with the scoring opportunities they had...

6-1 score line? Even 3rd division teams in the UK have more respectable scores against Premiership teams.

TFC played well, you just have too much pride to admit it. And name the "terrible" mistakes I made. If you don't have a legit claim to make, don't make it.

And what happened to all the Impact fans, who claimed that they had a better depth than TFC? If they had depth, the Bench team should have done better.

1. You won because you were motivated playing a bench, we didn't have our actual back 4, or our super goalie, don't call me stupid.

2. The 1-nil match where an onside goal was discounted, and we hit 3 posts? It could have just as easily been a montreal win. YOu also "dominated" our A team(still with injuries), and only 1-0, thats more indicative than a 6-1 win.

3. Who gives a great about the prem, why are you bringing it up? are you saying Toronto is premiereship class and Montreal is 3rd division(4th tear)? that's absolute bull, and no one else would try to make that point, for fear of being ridiculed.

4. I'm not too proud to admit that TFC played to win, that's why I can find scores of my posts saying they were motivated and came to win, but sure, you know what I said better than me.

5. One mistake was when you said a TFC Player(james?) was 18 last year in the cup, and reda(velez? I mix those two up) wasn't a starter, when james was 23 years 11 months old and reda was a starter. I've also seen plenty of other people correct your statements on your own team.

6. I don't know, I was never one of those posters, ask them, not me.

quote:Originally posted by kyam

Only ONE GUY said that USL were a buncha "C grade chokers"... stop accusing us all of saying that... you don't even know if hes a TFC fan, hes not from Toronto...

Unless you live in a box, everybody on the Voyageur recognizes the Impact's success in the CCL. Thats still not an excuse for a 6-1 scoreline.

1b. I know only one guy said that, I was adressing him at that point. I also never said everyone was saying that about Montreal, I also never said he was a TFC fan, I also never said he was from Toronto.

2b. You're one of the people implying we dressed our best, when you go about saying those were our starters. Because the Mayards, Sakuda, Srdj, etc are all the best we have to offer? No, they aren't starters, and even the ones that are, are only starters due to injuries, like to DiLo and Pesoli.

3b.OK? I didn't bring that up because it doesn't matter to the discussion, so why say I live in a box and it isn't an excuse when I never mentioned it?

Don't make me grizzly out and write another essay on why you're a know nothing, or I'll go find the posts of actual sensible Toronto fans correcting you. Or your posts about how we should ask to play in the US Open Cup, or how we should invite international teams to the V's cup.

;)

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quote:Originally posted by Trident

First, you specifically said "a few people", not ONE.

Second, I did not imply the Impact had their best team. However, to say they played their entire Trois Riveria Attak team is absurd.

The following regulars started or were substituted in: Gjertsen, Testo, Pesoli, DiLorenzo, DeRoux, Brillant, Donatelli, Placentino, Byers.... but I did not deny that some non-regulars started.

On the third comment on the US Open comment, Great job for being a forum warrior, 600+ posts, impressive, I guess the economy is doing poorly so some folks have a lot more time on their hands to research these things.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think I suggested to bring an International Team.

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quote:Originally posted by Trident

First, you specifically said "a few people", not ONE.

Second, I did not imply the Impact had their best team. However, to say they played their entire Trois Riveria Attak team is absurd.

The following regulars started or were substituted in: Gjertsen, Testo, Pesoli, DiLorenzo, DeRoux, Brillant, Donatelli, Placentino, Byers.... but I did not deny that some non-regulars started.

On the third comment on the US Open comment, Great job for being a forum warrior, 600+ posts, impressive, I guess the economy is doing poorly so some folks have a lot more time on their hands to research these things.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think I suggested to bring an International Team.

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quote:Originally posted by MastaK

Trident : I don't think he's worth anyone's time.

Let's admit it, the Impact played SO many regulars and clearly intended to win this game.

t'est vrai... cest vrm ennuyant de rencontré qqun comme lui...il est trop con pour savoir quil est con...

One last thing though.

quote:Originally posted by kyam

1. My comment about a few people, is completely different than my one saying USL are CC grade chokers, that's why they've been separated. Figure it out.

2. You do imply we played our best when we say we played a worse team, you go around everywhere going "Oh, well there was X, XX and Y starting, so that's not true.

3. I'm not an internet warrior for bringing something up that I see in a popular thread and especially when I was the one who had to correct you, the statement was so laughable I can't forget it.I've had 600+ posts in about as many days, it's not like I started posting yesterday. I'm sure you've posted more than I did in my first months on the board. Also, I'm a student, school just finished and I have no job since I'm relocating soon, so why assume I'm only posting because I lost my job?

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quote:Originally posted by jimmynow

ya sure.. when Montreal goes to Champions League it's great for soccer (even if they blow it 5-2 to Santos) but the Big Bad TFC wins and suddenly it's bad for the game. That's the vibe I'm getting from this thread.

Let's get over this argument of what is good or bad for the game.

That's a massive exaggeration, just as it was an exaggeration that getting 50000 at the Big Owe was good for the game. People need to cut back on the rhetoric after their team loses.

If anything, it just creates more rivalries. I'm sure Vancouver will be quite interested in that game against Montreal on the weekend ;)

And TFC fans are over the moon right now. Is that good for soccer? ;)

Why is this so difficult for Toronto supporters to understand. The anger felt by Whitecaps supporters is not directed at TFC. It is not directed at TFC supporters. It is not directed at Montréal supporters. It is directed solely at Montréal Impact, especially Dos Santos.

The win by Toronto was tainted by the fact that Vancouver was not afforded the opportunity to pump in 20 goals against Montréal's B team. I'm flummoxed as to why people cannot understand this. This was not at all a "meaningless" game.

Congratulations Toronto.

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quote:Originally posted by nimamalek

TFC deserved to win, they were the best team during the tournament. Even the 2-0 loss to vancouver was against the run of play

No it wasn't. I was at that game and in the first half especially, Vancouver were the better team and deserved the win.

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quote:Originally posted by Tintin

Why is this so difficult for Toronto supporters to understand. The anger felt by Whitecaps supporters is not directed at TFC. It is not directed at TFC supporters. It is not directed at Montréal supporters. It is directed solely at Montréal Impact, especially Dos Santos.

The win by Toronto was tainted by the fact that Vancouver was not afforded the opportunity to pump in 20 goals against Montréal's B team. I'm flummoxed as to why people cannot understand this. This was not at all a "meaningless" game.

Congratulations Toronto.

Why is it difficult to understand that the problem was the format of the tournament? I can guarantee you that any team place in a similar sotuation would've done the same thing. We've seen it in the EPL and La Liga this year, in some FIFA competitions in the past. CSA must avoid a repeat of such situation in the future because it will happen again if they keep the same format.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well as someone now looking from a distance without having an inkling of what happened on the pitches through inability, all I have to say about this thread as a longsufferiing Canadian footie fan is.................

HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Right up to only a few years ago, I never dreamed that there would be such heated discussion about an internal competition, and never dreamed that Canadian clubs would be fighting to go to an international club competition and that people would care about it.

Keep arguing your guts out guys, it warms the cockles of this old heart!

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