Jump to content

CBC piece on BMO Field turf


RS

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 87
  • Created
  • Last Reply

So is the loss being blamed on FieldTurf?

I think the USA was beaten by a better team, irrespective of the playing surface.

Real professionals can and do adapt their game to whatever surface they are required to play on.

Furthermore, the objective of most natural grass groundskeepers is to achieve a playing surface as smooth and consistent as FieldTurf!

And de Rosarios comment about TFC and how deserving they are of natural grass is way off the mark. The TFC reality is $250k to bring in a natural grass surface for one game versus tens of millions of dollars to construct an alternative community facility in downtown Toronto and lay a permanent natural grass surface at BMO Field. No comparison, maybe he needs a lesson in economics and contract law.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After reading this article I almost wonder if it isn't time FIFA come up with a new rule re: grass/field turf/pitch quality.

They have rules re: stadium quality but not re: pitch quality.

Soccer is a game that should be played on a natural grass surface. Field turf should be left for the indoor game, 7 v 7, 6 v 6, winter soccer, futsal, etc. The outdoor game though should be played on natural grass.

I realize this is difficult for certain countries (weather, $), but perhaps it's time this issue was settled once and for all. FIFA ought to make a new rule.

(This would be akin to certain European countries having our men's hockey team play on a wooden "ice" surface with roller blades or something. In hockey you need ice, in soccer grass.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by Richard

So is the loss being blamed on FieldTurf?

I think the USA was beaten by a better team, irrespective of the playing surface.

....

Loss? I would suggest THE WIN was in part because of the FieldTurf.

I just thought it was a nice article to exemplify the differences between what the Ticos achieve while playing on FieldTurf, you know, a killer home record earned through attractive attacking football, and what this years addition of TFC has. Which isn't much. Not much positive anyway.

It really is tiresome at this point, the turf issue. Deal with it.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's ridicules that a) TFC is still playing on plastic and B) MLSE hasn't ponied up (on their own if necessary) for an all-season soccer centre so as to allow them to sod over BMO Field.

Yeah, I know the contract handing over the stadium is complicated. Lots of strings attached to all that public money but come on. Chop, chop. Long term revenues are at risk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Surely the fact that BMO Field has FieldTurf was not a surprise for de Rosario upon arriving at his first practise there, he knew what he was coming to before he signed the contract? What's all this whining and dissatisfaction now?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Still them against us,meaning those that now tolerate soccer but also are in control of the stadium and the players and fans who are again involved with the them and us factor.

I watched several programs on Dutch TV and I can assure you that this is a big fat no no as far as the Dutch players are concerned.I also don't know if any fields in Holland are plastic.I assume not.

I see the difference and know how this can upsett the apple cart.These sudden changes and ball movements are not natural as well as the wear and tear training and playing on that stuff. It is the recovery time that also plays a big factor.It gets in your bones.

I recommended that they train on grass and play till they change it to the good stuff as soon as possible.

This issue won't go away and the players and spectators and me included want to see the grass, even smell it and experience that peculiar bounce of the grass and surface to really get into the game. It is just about a holy experience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by ottawaguy2009

1) They have rules re: stadium quality but not re: pitch quality.

2) Soccer is a game that should be played on a natural grass surface. Field turf should be left for the indoor game, 7 v 7, 6 v 6, winter soccer, futsal,

3) (This would be akin to certain European countries having our men's hockey team play on a wooden "ice" surface with roller blades or something. In hockey you need ice

1) FIFA has pitch quality testing etc and approve field turf. Personally I think Desso Grassmaster (re-enforced natural grass) is best, Limonta fake grass second (no heat island) and crumb rubber/silica very distant third. What FIFA needs to do is raise the standard.

2) Leave Futsal out of the list. It has a surface spec that doesn't require fake grass. Much cheaper and easier to install & maintain!

3) Artificial ice has been around for decades (Phil Esposito used to flog it). So why don't we see it for amateur/kids arenas? Because the groups and players won't budge. Their attitude is "Hockey is played on ice so give us real good ice" and they get it, refrigeration costs and all.

We in the soccer community are too easily pushed into fake grass. What shocked me about the report was that it is now trashed after 2.5 years of use! Supposed to last 7-8 years and you are replacing it after 3? WTF gives with that? Lets see the cost "savings" on a replacement cycle of 3 years. Ballpark is roughly 1/2 the cost of a new field.

If it is that heavily used that it is shot after 3 years then it isn't the solution.

Like I've said in other threads, we in North America approach problems from the wrong angle way too much. A soccer ball bounces too much indoors because there is no grass to absorb some of the energy so we try to bring the grass indoors at a multi-million dollar cost. The rest of the world says "make a ball that bounces less" and plays Futsal for a vastly cheaper setup & maintenance cost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Real professionals can and do adapt their game to whatever surface they are required to play on.

Furthermore, the objective of most natural grass groundskeepers is to achieve a playing surface as smooth and consistent as FieldTurf!

And de Rosarios comment about TFC and how deserving they are of natural grass is way off the mark. The TFC reality is $250k to bring in a natural grass surface for one game versus tens of millions of dollars to construct an alternative community facility in downtown Toronto and lay a permanent natural grass surface at BMO Field. No comparison, maybe he needs a lesson in economics and contract law.

Very true, DeRo is a school yard players who has been very lucky to be born in North America, anywhere else he would have never made it to the pro level.... he really is a smoke salesman and a fake hero, just like the american national team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you can't beat Costa Rica on FieldTurf, you sure are not going to beat them on natural grass either, everything else being equal.

The way TFC has been playing it seems they are casting around for excuses and the FieldTurf is an easy target for players and fans alike. The players need to shut up and get on with doing what they're paid to do, play football and win at least 50% of their games. Some of them would do better spending the time and energy working on improving their very basic skills.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Richard I really believe that the real culprit is the training which is probably a lot more intense than a game.The recovery time is to short and it shows in a game big time.

The guy who made me aware of this problem was Lalas when they were up here and when I asked him about this stuff that was his response and observation.

It makes sense and in order to change that, train on grass.

Tonight I will be seeing Bobby Lenarduzzi at the Hall Of Fame reception and I will ask him for his input.Keep you posted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bob will probably be gentle about FieldTurf since the MLS Whitecaps will have to play on it in BC Place for at least five years. The MLS Whitecaps will have a separate $30 million training facility out in the suburbs however, with a mix of artificial and natural grass pitches (http://vancouvermls2011.com/facilities/training-facilities.aspx).

Their current training facility at Simon Fraser University is all FieldTurf.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by tmcmurph

What shocked me about the report was that it is now trashed after 2.5 years of use! Supposed to last 7-8 years and you are replacing it after 3? WTF gives with that? Lets see the cost "savings" on a replacement cycle of 3 years. Ballpark is roughly 1/2 the cost of a new field.

If it is that heavily used that it is shot after 3 years then it isn't the solution.

The real culprit here is the hours of use it gets. If TFC was the only tenant, then I'm sure it would actually last 7-8 years. Any surface that has that much community use is going to deteriorate quickly.

The fact of the matter is that it needs to be replaced, whether with new or grass. Probably the city should have taken that into account when they prescribed that much usage. I wonder if they should have to foot some of the bill for a new surface.

I'm not too much against the stuff since my opinion is that a good FieldTurf pitch is still better than a torn up natural turf.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by Eric

DeRo is a school yard players who has been very lucky to be born in North America, anywhere else he would have never made it to the pro level.... he really is a smoke salesman and a fake hero, just like the american national team.

Huh? Hate DeRo why?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by Saviola7

The fact of the matter is that it needs to be replaced, whether with new or grass. Probably the city should have taken that into account when they prescribed that much usage. I wonder if they should have to foot some of the bill for a new surface.

Ummm, no. With the sweetheart deal that TFC got with the stadium, and the money they are raking in hand over fist, with nothing really to spend it on (salary cap), MLSE can certainly afford to pay for a new field, synthetic or natural.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ As with any well run business there are priorities when it comes to budget allocations. While MLSE is still selling out BMO Field and maintaining a 15,000+ waiting list for season's tickets I can just imagine the debates in the boardroom about how much capital really needs to be invested in a stadium they don't even own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^Disagree. I'll bet a large part of the talk is about exactly just that.

How do we get those 15K people off the waiting list (that is to say without losing their interest because of an ever unending wait)? How do we continue to keep TFC's public image on the trendy? Knowing what we know now about the marketability of football in Toronto what are we willing to spend to keep this good thing going. Because it's not going to go on forever all by itself. There are issues damaging TFC/MLS' imagine and they need to be addressed.

How much and exactly what is going on behind the scenes I have no idea. But I'd be stunned if a lot of back and forth between the City and MLSE hasn't be going on already, and I'd expect much more is coming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by Soju

Huh? Hate DeRo why?

You might be surprised but there are ALOT of people, including many who make a living in soccer, who share Eric's feelings.

I am not prepared to be quite as critical of DeRo as Eric was in his post. I can certainly appreciate DeRo's very high individual skill level. However, there are major flaws in his game and he often comes across as a selfish player.

I've made the argument for a while that Dwayne is a "Sportscenter" player. He does things from time to time that get on highlite reels and get lots of attention, which boost his profile. He also has knack for coming up huge in big games, which is what makes him valuable. However , in games where he doesn't score or do something spectacular, what I too often see is a player who isn't working within the structure of the team system. He freelances far too much for my liking, a bad habit I thought he would have kicked by now

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

^Disagree. I'll bet a large part of the talk is about exactly just that.

How do we get those 15K people off the waiting list (that is to say without losing their interest because of an ever unending wait)? How do we continue to keep TFC's public image on the trendy? Knowing what we know now about the marketability of football in Toronto what are we willing to spend to keep this good thing going. Because it's not going to go on forever all by itself. There are issues damaging TFC/MLS' imagine and they need to be addressed.

How much and exactly what is going on behind the scenes I have no idea. But I'd be stunned if a lot of back and forth between the City and MLSE hasn't be going on already, and I'd expect much more is coming.

Just what is it in my post you disagree with?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

^Was under the impression you felt MLSE, or factions there in, are reluctant to spend money on a stadium they don't own. That's the part I disagree with. I think MLSE is white-hot eager to spend money on BMO Field and/or subsidiary facilities whether they own them or not.

I suspect that anything delaying advancement of MLSE's expanded vision for BMO Field etc is resulting from having to deal with the complexities of local government.

Or did I read your post wrong?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I spoke to John Limniatis about the grass and he said it to be a bad choice.I forgot to ask Bobby.I said that I was really effen pi..ssed off after his firing and he said he was to very pied off.There was some friendly banter about John's firing at the Hall of Fame banquet but he came accross as a genleman.Even Bob Lenarduzzi in his speech showed great support for John and said that he went through the same experience and knew all about it.

Gerry Dobson kept talking about four goals all night kidding the guys from Vancouver.It was a marvelous day at the TFC game when they were all introduced to the crowd.

I participated in some of the presentations including John's and

it was so marvelous to hear them speak about their soccer experiences over all these years.A wonderfull and great night and day for soccer.TFC were and are a great supporter and nothing but first class.Thanks TFC and Paul!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More from The Star today:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/649668

quote:"We're on the (council) agenda and hopefully we'll get approval," said Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment executive vice-president and chief operating officer Tom Anselmi yesterday, at what was billed as a mid-season media round table at the club's Exhibition Place home stadium. "We're committed to putting (grass) in, and we'll write the $3 million-plus cheque for (conversion)."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...