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Are the Whitecaps better than MLS teams?


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the larger worry is that MLSE doesn't figure out that the Vancouver model is vital to TFC's future success. This is the problem with huges success OFF the field: nobody knows how to solve the problems on the field. Love that TFC signed DeRo, but the future is in development. Got to start thinking like a club. And soon! TFC is going to do diddly for Canadian soccer if it can't figure this out, and it is going to do diddly in the MLS, too.

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The MLS is able to attract ‘star’ players to their teams where the USL cannot. The salary cap in MLS creates a situation where there are players on the pitch on a given night that can run a USL team off the field. With salary tied up in higher end players the MLS salary cap creates a situation where the players at the lower end have no business playing at that level.

A great example of this is the LA Galaxy most of their money is tied up with Beckham and Donovan. Many of their players are so terrible I think they might have a hard time in the USL. Elite players might get burned out playing often or frustrated with the lack of quality of the other team mates.

The USL salary structure and the USL’s inability to sign ‘stars’ creates a situation with many players of the same quality are on the team. It creates a deeper squad but not a ‘better one’. This is one reason why I think Montreal was able to do well in the champion’s league. There wasn’t a big difference between their starters and their subs. In MLS there is a huge difference between the starters and subs.

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Some how people have failed to notice that every year the best 3 or 4 USL players transfer to MLS but there are 20 to 30 decent MLS players who transfer to USL. MLS needs to raise the minimum wage. Until they do they will be a league equal to but not better than USL.

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You people arguing this nonsense back and forth need to remember why the MLS is doing it's best to limit inflation etc.

If you raise the Cap most GM's of teams will spend more money on one or two players and you end up with the NASL all over again. If you gave that moron Mo more money he would find a way to ruin the spend...

Grizz is right that it looks, that at the moment anyways, the USL clubs are filled with 6's. 7's, and 1 or two 8's whereas they are lacking a potential 9 or 10...but the MLS teams may have 1 or 2 9's and 10's but then the bench is littered with 5's and 6's where the Caps and Impact may have overall better players in greater numbers.

One thing is for sure... the Caps and Impact have deeper and better benches...

Once the MLS finalizes it's plans to allow for proper clubs to operate as such things will change, and this is the one piece the NASL never had, Development and Grassroots level impact.

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quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

I am really enjoying the absence of MediaGuy on this thread and the forum in general since the Caps victory! I guess he is ashamed since the Caps proved he was writing complete crap.

Some of us have things to do with our life Grizz. Vancouver won a game. Good for them. I've never suggested that USL teams can't win against MLS competition.

And, although it is unlikely that Vancouver won't win now, the tournament isn't actually over yet.

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quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

BTW, I do want Montreal to go to MLS but it is not because I feel the playing level of the league is much superior but I don't need to repeat myself here since you will be researching my past comments.

quote:MLS needs to raise the minimum wage. Until they do they will be a league equal to but not better than USL.

So is it superior, or equal to? Your posts change by the day, Grizz.

Why the mood swings? Not enough hugs from 17 year old stadium employees lately?

As for Trillium, you really cannot stay out of Grizzly's rectum. Are you that enamoured with him, or do you not have faith that he can handle himself in here?

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quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

the larger worry is that MLSE doesn't figure out that the Vancouver model is vital to TFC's future success. This is the problem with huges success OFF the field: nobody knows how to solve the problems on the field. Love that TFC signed DeRo, but the future is in development. Got to start thinking like a club. And soon! TFC is going to do diddly for Canadian soccer if it can't figure this out, and it is going to do diddly in the MLS, too.

I don't think this is as much of a problem as you state.

Even right now, TFC has more of a development program in place than Montreal. And as of next year TFC's academy will be amped up even further with the new training facilites being built.

At the moment, player development is not much of a requirement to succeed in MLS. That's changing, but I think people are far too impatient on this front.

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quote:Originally posted by Rudi

So is it superior, or equal to? Your posts change by the day, Grizz.

Why the mood swings? Not enough hugs from 17 year old stadium employees lately?

As for Trillium, you really cannot stay out of Grizzly's rectum. Are you that enamoured with him, or do you not have faith that he can handle himself in here?

You might want to read the first part you quote over again.

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quote:Originally posted by Gordon

You might want to read the first part you quote over again.

I know exactly what he wrote. By saying that it's not much superior he's still saying it's superior.

The funny thing is that I don't even see Vancouver fans saying these things, even though their team is the only one that has actually defeated an MLS side.

It's such a shame that Grizzly has turned into such a troll. He used to be a well-balanced and respected poster on this forum.

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What is wonderful to see--honestly--is how we are starting to see very strong, ramped-up regional loyalties develop in around TFC, the Caps and Impact. Club football is starting to take proper root in Canada--maybe. If we could add Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa, that would be awesome. I'd hate all these other teams, but I'd be so happy to see soccer in this country do what it needs to do to be successful at the international level, and that is develop more and more national talent through the club system.

Vive le Caps!

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quote:Originally posted by Rudi

I know exactly what he wrote. By saying that it's not much superior he's still saying it's superior.

The funny thing is that I don't even see Vancouver fans saying these things, even though their team is the only one that has actually defeated an MLS side.

It's such a shame that Grizzly has turned into such a troll. He used to be a well-balanced and respected poster on this forum.

Yes I am such a troll. Maybe you should re-read your post below before judging which of us is a troll.

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

So is it superior, or equal to? Your posts change by the day, Grizz.

Why the mood swings? Not enough hugs from 17 year old stadium employees lately?

As for Trillium, you really cannot stay out of Grizzly's rectum. Are you that enamoured with him, or do you not have faith that he can handle himself in here?

I have been completely consistent on my opinion of MLS. It is slightly better than USL with the USL improving at a faster rate than MLS. Each MLS team has 4 or 5 players who are above USL level but also several who are below USL level. MLS teams spend too much money on the top players and not enough on the depth players. MLS has better individual players but the team as a whole is often not good. If a good MLS team had all its starters available I would expect they would beat a good USL team more often than they would lose. Once injuries and things like international callups start hitting their roster the advantage would disappear. However, as I said above MLS is slightly better than USL with an emphasis on slightly. The difference is far smaller than a 1st division to 2nd division relationship. MLS has no justification for calling itself North America's 1st division.

If the better teams like Seattle, Portland and Vancouver were not leaving USL I suspect it would catch up to the level of MLS within a year or two if it kept improving at the same rate it has been. On the other hand if MLS were to raise its salary cap enough to also raise its minimum salary to around $40 000 or $50 000 it could really improve its own level of play and hurt that of the USL. I hope Montreal joins MLS because many of the best USL teams are doing this, the league is marketed much better and has a better image whether deserved or not, the teams are in more interesting cities and we could make a lot more road trips because there are more cities near Montreal. If the MLS raises the minimum salary as I mentioned, the level of players on the Impact would improve significantly, if it doesn't I don't think the playing level would be that much different. In the Voyageurs Cup we have seen that there has been little difference in playing level between the teams. Up to now the home team has dominated each game not the MLS team.

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Just listened to the "It's Called Football" interview with Pat Onstad. His response to TFC losing to the Caps was, "First of all I don't think there is a huge gap. I think some people thing there is a massive gap between the USL and MLS. There is not. I think it is very close and on a given day a USL team can obviously beat an MLS team." My only regret was that they didn't show MediaGuys face while Onstad was making these comments.

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quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

What is wonderful to see--honestly--is how we are starting to see very strong, ramped-up regional loyalties develop in around TFC, the Caps and Impact. Club football is starting to take proper root in Canada--maybe. If we could add Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa, that would be awesome. I'd hate all these other teams, but I'd be so happy to see soccer in this country do what it needs to do to be successful at the international level, and that is develop more and more national talent through the club system.

Vive le Caps!

I don't know about you guys, but that loyalty has been in place in montreal for quite some time.

;)

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quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Some how people have failed to notice that every year the best 3 or 4 USL players transfer to MLS but there are 20 to 30 decent MLS players who transfer to USL. MLS needs to raise the minimum wage. Until they do they will be a league equal to but not better than USL.

Theirs a big difference between USl-1 teams signing MLS players that were dropped or waived, versus USL-1 players choosing to sign with an MLS team to up their career...

I really have no idea where you came up with 3 or 4 USL players going to MLS, versus 20-30 "decent" MLS players going to USL. Just because you can make up stats, doesn't make it right :P Honestly though, where did you come up with those number?

And whats your definition of "decent?"

Adam Braz certainly didn't do very well in MLS. He excels in USL-1, and really played well against TFC last year, but you can't judge a player based on the 1 day he decides to show up against an MLS opponent.

If Braz were to sign with another MLS team, I'm not sure he'd do that well. He might have 1 or 2 good games, but then falters like he did in his 13 games he played for TFC.

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quote:Originally posted by kyam

I do not agree with your comments, USL has improved a lot over the years and Braz didn't. As a regular to the Impact games, I can assure you, Braz is an average defender in USL.

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quote:Originally posted by JFC

Don't get me wrong, USL-1 is not far from MLS. I'm just challenging the stats that Grizzly provided... dunno where he gets them from, it appears he pulled them out of the air to support his point.

However, for me, teams like the Impact, Whitecaps, Sounders, Portland & Puerto Rico represent the depth of the USL. They are the best in the league and hold some of the best players, and can consistently compete against some of the lower level MLS teams

If the Carolina Challenge Cup is any indication, the Charleston Battery lost in every game against DC United over the past 5 years.

In terms of the all-time table since 2004, TFC has only competed in the Carolina Cup for 3 years... yet, TFC has surpassed every USL team thats ever played in the tournament including Carolina.

Not that Braz represents the MLS-USL divide, but he maybe average in USL... Adam Braz was absolutely horrible in Toronto... if you want an indication of how TFC fans felt about him... here is a bigsoccer discussion comparing Braz to the Leafs Wade Belak (Belak was the worst defenceman in the NHL)

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=610298

Marco Reda went from being waived by TFC, to becoming Capt of a USL side, Charleston before going to Vancouver... he was injured at TFC, so I guess hes an unfair example...

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