Dallas vs. TFC - Sun. April 19th

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Even Dino Zoff would have struggled to claim that ball. Most you could reasonably expect is punching it clear and even then staying on his line might have been the better move in percentage terms i.e. more likely if you replayed that situation 100 times to result in no goal.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Even Dino Zoff would have struggled to claim that ball. Most you could reasonably expect is punching it clear and even then staying on his line might have been the better move in percentage terms i.e. more likely if you replayed that situation 100 times to result in no goal.

[loyola]

Really tough to come out for that ball G-L. In-swinger coming like that with no space for the keeper to work with (the FK was taken near the CK so the TFC players had to be deep in their box which make the job tougher for the keeper with very little space between him and his back line). The ball wasn't hit hard but it was still pretty direct, if it had been floated I would've agree with you. I also feel like Frei has been pretty good in claiming crosses so far, he looked better than Sutton in that area even if he's smaller.

Frei catching is also excellent as well as his distribution. He's a good step ahead of Sutton IMO.

[Calgary Boomer]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Any player in the world is going to stop playing when the ball hits a defender's hand in the box. That is not looking for a penalty it is indicating to the ref that a penalty infraction has occurred. Nor is it any argument to say that the play wasn't dangerous. The player indented to play the ball back to a teammate rushing forward. Since the ball never got to that player we do not know if it would have been a dangerous scoring opportunity or not.

You really don't have a clue do you. You probably missed Saturday's Aston Villa West Ham game...exact same circumstances. In fact, the hand ball was even more obvious...but did John Carew stop playing? No he didn't because that's what professionals do. (just like we've been told to do since we were kids...play the whistle.

Cheats put their hands in the air wave them about and yell for a penalty.

I've got a new set piece idea...just run into the box, and flick the ball up at the defenders arm.

Honestly, the stupidity on this site sometimes is staggering.

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

It would need a major overhaul of the rest of the team (left and right full back being top of the agenda) and a full switch to a possession oriented style to be able to use them both effectively like that.

o basically you're saying that the british 4-4-2 is with a diamond midfield not a flat midfield? I always read the brazilians were the first ones to implement the diamond midfield, but that's ok I get you're point about the 4-4-2.

Now going back to TFC, you suggest tactical changes and I agree with you. What I don't agree with you is that I don't think is necessary to get new players to make this team play better.

I think that at least 50% of the players are being played in the wrong positions on the field and the system is wrong too IMO.

I would play a 4-2-3-1, I would make sure to build a solid defense and then go forward from there. I think our weakest point is when we need to regain possession, simply because we have too many lazy players who don't think chasing back and regaining possession is their job. Obviously that's a disciplinary issue. But I would fix the situation by placing two centre halves in front of the back 4, one with more attacking tendencies the other with more defensive tendencies (I don't want to put names in these positions yet), with these set-up at the back we can afford some distractions by our front players when comes down to pressuring at front and regaining possession. The build up would be easier because we can send the full backs forward with out worrying about leaving holes on the flanks because we have two centre halves to cover spaces in the middle and the flanks. I would use Vitti as the target men, with Guevara (centre) De Rosario (left) and Ibrahim (right) all three behind the target man. By using this system, when one of our full backs goes forward, we would still defend with five and won't have to worry about not being prepare for a counter attack.

I like Stefan Frei a lot but in the first goal, he should had come out to punch that ball instead of almost falling in the net.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

Even Dino Zoff would have struggled to claim that ball.

Nowadays maybe, but not when he was 24. The cross was loopy and slow enough that I think he could have caught it and even if not punching the ball is more acceptable than having it headed into the back of your net. Had it been a whipped in cross at a flat trajectory I'd be more inclined to agree. There was no-one in the 6 yard box (the area a keeper should own) obstructing his run to get the ball, he came out to get it and then changed his mind and went back to his goal line and ended up watching the ball go past him.

I'm not saying he should be crucified (perhaps the guy who let Moore go un-marked should be though - despite De Vos blaming Robinson it looked to me like it was Barrett)), just that I feel it it is something that Frei will probably learn with time and experience, when to come out & when not.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Really tough to come out for that ball G-L. In-swinger coming like that with no space for the keeper to work with (the FK was taken near the CK so the TFC players had to be deep in their box which make the job tougher for the keeper with very little space between him and his back line).

I suggest re-watching the goal again, because its pretty clear that there is nobody in the 6 yard box, giving him plenty of space to work with to get to that ball in time.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

I suggest re-watching the goal again, because its pretty clear that there is nobody in the 6 yard box, giving him plenty of space to work with to get to that ball in time.

When I said "deep in their box" I was referring to the 18 yards box.

Usually, as a keeper, for any FK taken with a real chance of a good cross but not in a shooting position you like to have your players at some point between the 18 yards box line and the PK point if it isn't possible to have your guys higher.

In the case of the 1st goal, it wasn't possible to have the TFC players higher (from what I recall they were clearly near the 6 yards box which doesn't give much chance to the keeper to come out if the ball is hit directly). Maybe he could've come out to punch it but I doubt of the success of the operation, pretty risky IMO.

I'll take another look at the goal later tonight but I didn't really see a problem when I saw it live and DeVos did say "no chance for Frei" (not that I always agree with DeVos but as a defender I think he would've had criticize "the Swiss keeper" if he felt he did soemthing wrong).

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Calgary Boomer

You really don't have a clue do you. You probably missed Saturday's Aston Villa West Ham game...exact same circumstances. In fact, the hand ball was even more obvious...but did John Carew stop playing? No he didn't because that's what professionals do. (just like we've been told to do since we were kids...play the whistle.

Cheats put their hands in the air wave them about and yell for a penalty.

I've got a new set piece idea...just run into the box, and flick the ball up at the defenders arm.

Honestly, the stupidity on this site sometimes is staggering.

Go read the RPB forum match thread, those guys are usually pretty quick at whinning about the refs to explain a TFC loss of points. There's a real debate about whether that was the correct call and most of them agree it was correct. The reaction of the TFC players said it all IMO, no real complains from them.

Ask yourself, if the same play had been made near the goal line impeaching the ball to do into the net, would you call it a PK?

Of course the Dallas players was looking for a PK once the ball touched Wynne arm, it was a PK....He's not the first player to stop playing in such a case....

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

No reason for Wynne to have his arm out like that, the guy just doesn't use his head sometimes.

-------

Stopping and changing direction perhaps? ever do that with your arms to your side?

He didn't do anything wrong, it was just unfortunate.

Perhaps, but was it really necessary to have his arm at a full 90 degrees to his body?

Just sayin' Marvell Wynne seems to make alot of naive decisions. He strikes me as an athlete, not a player. I wonder if he was even aware he was in the box?

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

Perhaps, but was it really necessary to have his arm at a full 90 degrees to his body?

Just sayin' Marvell Wynne seems to make alot of naive decisions. He strikes me as an athlete, not a player. I wonder if he was even aware he was in the box?

Some defenders will usually put their arms out of the way (either behing their back or alongside their body) in such situation. I don't know if it was possible for Wynne to do it in that instance because of the potential loss of balance.

[Guest Ed]

If all the whiners are finished trying to justify that textbook hand ball in the box call, any comments on the absolutely mind-boggling substitution Carver made with 5 minutes left and his team behind by a goal?

[Vancouversoccerman]

quote:

Some defenders will usually put their arms out of the way (either behing their back or alongside their body) in such situation. I don't know if it was possible for Wynne to do it in that instance because of the potential loss of balance.

In my (very) limited amateur career as a right back, I'd often try to slow down faster players one-on-one by spreading my arms. Occassionally, I'd get called for the foul if the attacking player ran into it. But I found it was pretty effective in putting the player off stride, as he would try to go around me most of the time, making it pretty easy to disposess him.

But I learned quickly not to do it anywhere near the penalty area, because I knew the consequences.

[Eric]

I think many of us are used to watching top level football on tv and we keep forgetting north american players and the MLS is no where near the high level football played around the world, therefore players make amateurish mistakes just like the one Marvell Wynne made.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

I think many of us are used to watching top level football on tv and we keep forgetting north american players and the MLS is no where near the high level football played around the world, therefore players make amateurish mistakes just like the one Marvell Wynne made.

You're missing the point Eric....would a Serie D defender make such a mistake???

[john tv]

Well was looking forward to the rowdy crowd at Jack Astor but it was down over the last time from around 100 to 45. In fact 50% were women.

The match well again a downer and again no real good build ups although better than the last game.

That hand ball was a joke and that instant decosion by the referee is just what it is. No time to reconsider.

We lost the game again and this is becoming a big problem. I would like to see Dwayne more up front however that grass got to him and maybe our players are still to stiff to really excell. Just get rid of that stuff ASAP and than we can start to really judge and admire our guys.

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

You're missing the point Eric....would a Serie D defender make such a mistake???

That is exactly the point loyola, these players don't get to watch enough Serie D games!

[VPjr]

So, in conclusion, this team is bad. 2 points from 4 games bad.

[jpg75]

^ Yes. And instead of looking in the mirror to figure out what's wrong, it's got to be someone else's fault:

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20090420&content_id=241766&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

"When your job is threatened, and on the line, because of decisions like that, then I've got to say something,"

We can only hope...

[VPjr]

^ why take responsibility when there are plenty of people to blame. TFC is bad. 5 points from 5 games bad. And without DeRo in the lineup these next 2 matches, it might just get worse.

at least Vitti will get a fair shot to prove that he can contribute, althoug alongside Chad "One Foot" Barrett, I'm not sure what he's going to be able to accomplish.

JP, I've already started my letter writing campaign...this time I'm sending them straight to Anselmi. I hear that he thinks Mo is a football genius so its time to try to educate the guy who is ultimately reponsible for inflicting Mo and JC on us.

[Eric]

Carver is out of his league and has to go, you can't blame the ref when the hand ball was as big as BMO stadium. I'm trying to remember a similar hand ball in a world cup, I'm not sure if it was Roberto Baggio against Chile or who it was, but that play stayed in my mind because the player in possession look to hit the hand with the ball and got the call.

I found a link for that game, the play shows even in slow motion, you have to fast forward to minute 6:15sec.

PS. MO has to go too.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

at least Vitti will get a fair shot to prove that he can contribute, although alongside Chad "One Foot" Barrett, I'm not sure what he's going to be able to accomplish.

Barrett seems to be the MLS version of Dirk Kuyt with his energy, effort, and lack of final product. Maybe TFC needs to do what Liverpool has done with Kuyt and turn him into a right midfielder.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Calgary Boomer

You really don't have a clue do you. You probably missed Saturday's Aston Villa West Ham game...exact same circumstances. In fact, the hand ball was even more obvious...but did John Carew stop playing? No he didn't because that's what professionals do. (just like we've been told to do since we were kids...play the whistle.

Cheats put their hands in the air wave them about and yell for a penalty.

I've got a new set piece idea...just run into the box, and flick the ball up at the defenders arm.

Honestly, the stupidity on this site sometimes is staggering.

As far as the personal insults go I think you should look in the mirror before insulting anyone. I am also not sure what me viewing the Aston Villa game has to do with this issue. I watched the TFC game which is the game in question. As Loyola has correctly pointed out many players in any league including EPL stop playing and call for a penalty when they think one has occured, I would even say the majority do so. You can like or dislike this and if Carew is the exception good on him, but whether or not a foul or penalty occurred is dependent on whether or not a foul or penalty occurred not on the player's subsequent reaction to it.

If you are suggesting that the FCD player purposely struck the ball to Wynne's arms I don't think the video supports this (he was crossing the ball to teammates running into the box) but even if it did that is also immaterial. The only person on the pitch entitled to wave their arms around like that is the keeper especially in the box. As Vancouversoccerman pointed out even amateur players train to keep their arms down. I have rewatched the video and Wynne puts his arms out because he is changing directions in reaction to Ferreira changing directions. That is one of the most common drills in soccer practice, the quick change of direction and it is practiced keeping the arms down. Wynne not only has his left arm which the ball hit flailing about but also his right arm. That is simply poor technique. Wynne did not purposely try to stop the ball but his poor technique did cause him to stop what may or may not have been a good scoring opportunity in the box and that is a penalty. If you have your arms out like that you are just asking for the ball to hit them and Wynne has noone to blame but himself for the fact that it did. If you look at his reaction to the call, I think he understood this as well.

The article posted jpg75 states, "It wasn't just the penalty call Carver was upset about -- which certainly was a penalty that could have been given in any league in the world on a given day." I do disagree with the author of that article where he states TFC was outplayed in the 1st half. I think the only time TFC was outplayed was the 1st 15 minutes of the 2nd half when they came out flat but ironically managed to tie the game against the run of play. However, for the whole 1st half and the rest of the 2nd I thought the play was at times even and at times TFC dominated possession. The problem was lack of finish and lack of being dangerous when attacking. FCD's seemed better able to string effective passes together in the offensive end while TFC seemed to just lob the ball into the box at random and hope to get lucky.

As far as the Carver and Mo show goes, I think the blame can be evenly spread. By this point Mo has had 3 years to build up a decent lineup and the talent should be better than it currently is. Yet alternatively I do think with a better coach that the current lineup could play better than it is playing. Ultimately the blame lies with Mo, though. He has made the odd good deal (though is that through skill or law of averages) but has mostly made poor player and budget decisions and also a poor decision in hiring a manager. As an Impact fan I just hope he keeps his job until after the Voyageurs Cup! At the moment I am a bit of a Mo/Carver fan!

I have also rewatched the first goal and I have to aggree with GL that Frei could have done better. There was noone between him and the scorer and even if he couldn't have caught or parried the ball before the header he would have had a better chance of getting a hand on it up close in front of the attacker than from deep in the net. On the other hand I wouldn't blame the goal on him either as a defender obviously failed in his coverage of Moor but Frei still could have done better.

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by Calgary Boomer

I've got a new set piece idea...just run into the box, and flick the ball up at the defenders arm.

Is this the play you're asking for? Fast forward to min 6:15

[ag futbol]

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

^ Yes. And instead of looking in the mirror to figure out what's wrong, it's got to be someone else's fault:

That's troubling to see a quote like that from a coach this early. If the media wasn't so mediocre he's be roundly rosted by the press. You can see this kind of thing filter down to with players like Brennan and Barrett. News flash boys: if we held you to the same standards you're holding the officials you wouldn't make the practice squad. It's MLS, accept that not everything is going to be perfect.

There are a lot of problems with this team, but to me it starts with:

1) Mo Johnston making a fantasy team as opposed to a professional team. Too many mis-mashed parts. We have two converted Central Mids playing central defense. A Left mid playing left back. A striker playing left wing. A guy who on paper is a right back but can't hold it down positionally playing on the other side. Our draft pick who is a holding mid-plays right mid. It's a complete mess.

2) Carver just not having it tactically. The man is coaching like this is the english championship. It is not. People tried it before in MLS, failed. Most teams moved towards something in the range of a ground orientated counter attack or possession game (a long time ago!). Quit fighting the tide Leo.