leekoo Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 VERY INTERESTING the OSAs (Canada's largest soccer Association) have gathered in Ottawa this April 15 - April 19 for their 2009 Play Soccer Conference ... http://soccer.on.ca/Publications/AGMBook.nsf/ so why is TFC not an OSA member ... TFC not an OSA associate member ... the club can surely afford it ... the club plays in tournaments (dallas cup) ... the club plays in the CSL ... so why ... Member Organization Votes (OSA Voting Structure) Durham Region SA ... 431 East Central Ontario SA ... 127 Eastern Ontario District SA ... 867 Elgin Middlesex SA ... 259 Essex County SA ... 139 Hamilton & District SA ... 336 Huronia District SA ... 245 Lambton Kent SA ... 109 Niagara SA ... 260 North York SA ... 162 Peel Halton SA ... 1,044 Sault Amateur SA ... 56 Scarborough SA ... 156 Soccer North District Association ... 35 Soccer Northeastern Ontario ... 86 Soccer Northwest Ontario ... 71 Southeast Ontario SA ... 229 South-West Regional SA ... 470 Sudbury Regional SA ... 95 Toronto SA ... 349 York Region SA ... 605 Total Votes of Active Members 6,131 Canadian SL ... 1 Central Girls SL ... 1 Central SL ... 1 East Region SL ... 1 North Region SL ... 1 Ontario Colleges Athletic Association ... 1 Ontario Indoor SL ... 1 Ontario SL ... 1 Ontario Soccer Referees' Association ... 1 Ontario University Athletics ... 1 Ontario Women's SL ... 1 Ontario Youth SL ... 1 South Region SL ... 1 Western Ontario Youth SL ... 1 Total Votes of Associate Members 14 TOTAL VOTES 6,145 glossary OSA = ontario soccer association SA = soccer association SL = soccer league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 That shows you that the OSA has not real power when comes down to dealings with professional soccer. They are a make believe organization that survives thanks to the apathy of soccer parents who don't really care about the pro game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 The OSA's voting structure is just as bad as the CSA's. How 1 region can 12-13 times more votes than another is ridiculous. With Democracy like this, you might as well have dictatorship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr The OSA's voting structure is just as bad as the CSA's. How 1 region can 12-13 times more votes than another is ridiculous. With Democracy like this, you might as well have dictatorship Maybe it's got to do with how many people play soccer in the region? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leekoo Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr The OSA's voting structure is just as bad as the CSA's. How 1 region can 12-13 times more votes than another is ridiculous. With Democracy like this, you might as well have dictatorship the OSAs base their voting structure on dollars and cents ... so it's completely rational ... there are many governance models around ... the USA Senate has that even-steven 2 senators per state business ... i don't believe in giving ontario soccer the same vote to prince edward island soccer ... is TFC exempt from paying dues to the governing bodies the Toronto Lynx is (and forever was) a member of the Toronto Soccer Association ... TFC is not ... yet TFC Academy plays in the Dallas Cup ... yet TFC Academy plays in the CSL ... http://www.torontosoccer.net/memberclubs.html if there is an exemption ... why ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Well if i had to venture a guess... It would have something to do with TFC getting nothing in return for what they would pay the OSA. You know for a fact they would never give enough votes to a professional team to influence any meaningful change. The governance model is rediculous because you're empowering people who have no concept of wtf a cetral organization should be doing. So as a result, rather than producing synergy, the OSA just operates itself like a really big amateur club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I think TFC would be affiliated directly with the CSA being in a national level pro league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razcle Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 It so because we don't have real grass....damn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leekoo Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard I think TFC would be affiliated directly with the CSA being in a national level pro league. what about the Toronto Lynx then ... the Lynx was also a pro team ... and what of the TFC Academy teams ... those teams have be serviced by governing bodies ... or else no dallas cup, no CSL play ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Easy enough to look up the CSA constitution on their website:- http://www.canadasoccer.com/documents/Bylaws_Membership_2008_EN.pdf 6. MEMBERSHIP: a) The Association shall be composed of the following categories of members: i) Association Membership, which shall be open to only one properly constituted association each of the provinces and territories of Canada, and which hereinafter are referred to as $B!H(BProvincial/Territorial Associations$B!I(B or $B!H(BAssociations in Membership$B!I(B. ii) League Membership, which shall be open to all properly onstituted Division I and Division II Professional Leagues. iii) Professional Club Membership which shall be open to Division I Canadian Professional Clubs participating in a Professional League. (iv) Associate Membership, which shall be open to all properly constituted organizations operating on a national basis to promote the game of soccer and must be operating within the boundaries of and be affiliated with at least 6 Associations in Membership v) Life Membership, which shall be open to persons who have rendered valuable service to the Association. The way that reads to me is that TFC and possibly also the Whitecaps and Impact are CSA members. The Lynx currently would not be as PDL does not meet the criteria. Neither do CSL teams because that is a Division III league run by a provincial association. Judging from the OSA constitution TFC might be able to apply for associate membership but the Lynx and CSL teams don't appear to be able to:- http://www.soccer.on.ca/Publications/mam.nsf/f08a3f92aa4740a085256a8f00556acd/917d560244b17d2a8525688c006f946f?OpenDocument Article 3 - MEMBERSHIP a) District Associations shall apply for Active Membership in accordance with published rules. Soccer organizations operating in more than one district may apply for Associate Membership in accordance with published rules. c) Professional soccer clubs operating in an International Professional League may apply for Associate Membership in accordance with published rules. d) An individual may be granted Life Membership in accordance with published rules. e) An organization may be granted Honourary Membership in accordance with published rules. f) The Board of Directors shall approve or deny Membership applications in accordance with published rules. g) Annual Membership fees shall: i) be recommended by the Board of Directors; ii) be those approved by the Membership; iii) consist of a levy on each player or team registered with an Active Member and a levy on each Associate Member; and iv) be paid in accordance with published rules. Maybe not seen as worth the time expended when it would mean having 1 vote out of 6146. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard The way that reads to me is that TFC and possibly also the Whitecaps and Impact are CSA members. The Lynx currently would not be as PDL does not meet the criteria. Neither do CSL teams because that is a Division III league run by a provincial association. Judging from the OSA constitution TFC might be able to apply for associate membership but the Lynx and CSL teams don't appear to be able to:- As far as I know the CSL is not and never was run by the OSA, keep in mind Trois Rivieres belongs in a different provincial association. The simple answer is that everybody sucks up to TFC and they're willing to band over backwards just to have them in their side..... it's pure BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 ^ for a very long time, the OSA was closely involved in the running of the CSL when it was called the CPSL. These days, the league has autonomy in the way it runs the league but it is still hindered by archaic rules (i.e. CSL teams are not allowed to have their own youth club). The Bramton Lions-Dixie SC affiliation is an example of a way to get around that but if a club (lets say North York Astros) wanted to operate as a fully intigrated club, including recreational house leage soccer and an academy system that pulls players from rec into the competitive stream to hopefully one day feed the senior team, that is not permitted. They could try to operate a non sanctioned academy but why should the senior team be sanctioned but the youth set up be forced outside the fold. Silly stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 quote:Originally posted by leekoo the OSAs base their voting structure on dollars and cents ... so it's completely rational ... there are many governance models around ... the USA Senate has that even-steven 2 senators per state business ... i don't believe in giving ontario soccer the same vote to prince edward island soccer ... Leekoo, I don't believe in giving 1 vote to each province, nor do I believe in giving each district one vote. I'd prefer to see no districts, to be frank, but if a district is needed (hard to fathom but lets pretend they are), no single district should have 12-13 times more influence over the direction of the sport in this province. There needs to be a cap on the number of votes one district can have. Everyone is guaranteed 1 and then the larger districts would get extra votes based on competitive registration numbers. I would never permit any district more than 4x more votes than the smallest district. That's how you get some power monger district presidents trying to dictate the agenda at the OSA level (because they can, especially in assocation with one or two other like minded presidents) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Eric As far as I know the CSL is not and never was run by the OSA, keep in mind Trois Rivieres belongs in a different provincial association Then you don't know very much. If you don't believe me check the CSL website:- http://www.canadiansoccerleague.ca/news_archive.php?news_id=81380 CSL agreement means more independence 2008-02-28 The Canadian Soccer League and the governing body Ontario Soccer Association have reached agreement on a Memorandum of Understanding that provides some autonomy to the CSL while operating as a professional league with plans for expansion. You appear to strongly prefer the concept of having a separate Canadian national league for reasons of nationalism but the facts of the matter are that the CSL does not have that status. It is only a provincial level league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard Then you don't know very much. If you don't believe me check the CSL website:- http://www.canadiansoccerleague.ca/news_archive.php?news_id=81380 CSL agreement means more independence 2008-02-28 The Canadian Soccer League and the governing body Ontario Soccer Association have reached agreement on a Memorandum of Understanding that provides some autonomy to the CSL while operating as a professional league with plans for expansion. You appear to strongly prefer the concept of having a separate Canadian national league for reasons of nationalism but the facts of the matter are that the CSL does not have that status. It is only a provincial level league. There is a big difference between being part of a provincial association and being RUN by a provincial association, you need to read my post better You bet your ass I strongly prefer the concept of having a separate Canadian National League for reasons of nationalism. We are Canada not the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 The full implications of the words "some autonomy" appear to have passed you by. Beyond that you may have a preference for a Canadian National League but currently we don't have one. The Nutrilite Canadian Championship is the only competition that even comes close to providing one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leekoo Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 yes TFC is the Big Dog yes TFC is affiliated to CSA ... but what does CSA affiliation mean ... remember this topic is about the OSA Play Soccer Conference ... CSA and OSA are two different jurisdictions ... each with their own powers ... not long ago, the OSA voted down a CSA dues increase ... talking about soccer taxation 5 year old kids are paying OSA dues ... why isn't TFC ... talking about TFC Academy betcha the CSA isn't providing permission to play (for dallas cup)... the CSA can but betcha the CSAs don't ... betcha the CSA isn't providing permission to play (for CLS)... the CSA can't, the CSL ain't a national league ... the CSL is under OSA authority .... betcha the OSAs are providing those services to TFC ... should those services be freebie services ... just because TFC is the BEEEG DOGG ... talking about the Toronto Lynx the Lynx used to operate a pro team ... the Lynx held Toronto Soccer Association membership then ... the Lynx holds TSA membership now ... talking about agreements there may be an OSA-TFC agreement in place ... but this Big Dog business is not necessary ... talking about this discussion to nail this down find out which governing body provides the TFC permission play ... and why ... talking about the OSA Constitution Article 3 - MEMBERSHIP c) Professional soccer clubs operating in an International Professional League may apply for Associate Membership in accordance with published rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leekoo Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 an informed Ontario official has confirmed that: the OSA provides and has provided TFC Academy permission to play ... 5 year old ontario players pay OSA dues ... does TFC pay OSA dues ... if not, why not ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I see no good reason that they should become an associate member of an organization dedicated to amateur soccer. What is in it for them? Sponsorships, partnerships for sure. Membership? Why would they want to add more meetings and bureaucratic wrangling to their schedule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leekoo Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 right you are mister tee it's all about dollars and cents ... it's all about business ... i've just been wondering if the OSAs have been taking care of their business ... TFC's all for one message TFC is eager to keep in touch with all aspects of soccer in the Canada and offer as much back to the community as it receives. We care deeply about the development of the game and its participants... "all for one." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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