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De Vos: How do we fix Canadian soccer?


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Hello.

John Molinaro here, senior reporter for CBCSports.ca.

I just wanted to draw your attention to something you might be interested in.

CBC Sports soccer commentator Jason de Vos will be examining the state of Canadian soccer in Offside, a multi-part blog series exclusive to CBCSports.ca that will be be running over the next few weeks.

In part one, de Vos lays the groundwork on how to fix the game in Canada. you can read the first blog in the series here:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/2009/04/offside_where_to_we_start_in_t.html

Be sure to leave your comments at the bottom of the blog page, because Jason is very anxious to here from as many fans as possible.

Cheers,

John Molinaro

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quote:Originally posted by Blue and White Army

Might just be a typo. I'm an English Nazi, and even I use the wrong form of a word from time to time, especially when in a rush.

sorry, I was in a rush.

Anyway, be sure to submit your comments as Jason wants to get a dialogue going with as many concerned soccer fans as possible. He plans to talk to the CSA, too, so if you want your voice to be heard, be sure to leave your comments on his blog.

John

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As someone who does a lot of writing to earn a living I can understand why mistakes like using "here" instead of "hear" can happen when somebody doesn't have time to proof read. If I were being pedantic, I would point out that the word fix usually implies that something has actually worked at some point and I'm not sure Canadian soccer ever really has. Hopefully Jason Devos won't be pulling any of his punches during his multi-part blog series.

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There is a huge potential for Soccer to succeed here in Canada. With the success of TFC (Mostly off the field than on so far) The Whitecaps coming in 2011 and Montreal with the 55000 for there Champions League match now is the time to start capitilise on it. Instead of talking we should (myself included ) start working on trying to achieve things. Once soccer gets into thre rural areas of Canada and believe me it will. I think the sport will explode.

What bothers me the most I see the success the US are achieving and good for them. But I think it will be better appreciated here in Canada.

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This may be construed as a silly question by some. In any event it is directed mainly a VPjr who always seems to be well informed and was the initiator of the CSF. I ask if there is currently any person or organization anywhere in the country who is working, hands on, towards causing change in the CSA? If not, I will just have to settle in praying for a miracle. I wish we as a group would have more power to cause change, rather than just raise dust on the road.

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How to fix Canadian soccer.... I was reading the history of the J League on wikipedia the other day. Before the created the J league there was mostly amateur teams. In 1992 they formed the j league with 10 teams, and the expressed goal of having 100 professional teams in 100 years. Currently they have 36 teams in 2 divisions. Every one of those professional teams has interests of developing players for their own benefit.

The CSA needs to do two things. 1) Hire a team of coaches to coach the national team, ,U23, U20 and U17 teams. 2) Work towards a goal of setting up as many professional soccer teams in the country as they can. Once they set up professional teams these teams will themselves develop talent.

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nazzer you have an interesting point, but I must point out while Japan's goals are really good, they are very achievable because one of the big factors is they will have cheaper travel costs, less distance to travel, no time zone change. Our country is to big to have its own national league (unless someone has deep pockets and is willing to carry the burden...which I would do if my name was Bill Gates or Warren Buffet)

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#1 thing to do to get soccer on the right track is to make sure the national team games get broadcasted live when they happen.....so that means a national broadcast....so make sure cbc never gets the rights.......does anyone watch bold?

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This is nice; X-Team Canada captain, now working for CBC (better than nothing) and willing to use their website as a means for discussing soccer with the nation. What more could you ask for, people are picking at the one word John spelled wrong while quickly posting on a forum, while no one has even recognized what the post was even about. Jason De Vos represents a real avenue for dialogue, not just within this soccer forum, but with all the other soccer fans who visit the CBC site.

Let's see this opportunity for what it is and try and work with a very high profile Canadian soccer figure who's willing to discuss what must be done with Canadian soccer. We complain about needing to take action against complacency in the Canadian soccer structure, well here's our chance...

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I'm still confused as what "grass roots" is all about. I readily admit I know nothing about youth soccer, while there seem to be many people who post on the board who do. However, my understanding is that there are plenty of leagues/clubs where your 6 year-old can play. It seems to me the problem is what do these kids do in the 13-18 range when most kids around the world enter some type of "professional" environment.

Exactly as noted above, we need more "professional" clubs. I use the quotes here so we don't have a ten page debate on whether the CSL is actually professional. Clearly this is a league that gives us at least some type of pro culture. If we had this type of league on a more national basis, we would be farther ahead.

Then again, if the number of professional clubs dictate the quality of your nation in terms of footballing, England would win every World Cup and Euro over Scotland. Clearly these UK nations are missing something too. Is it something in the proverbial grass roots? People might argue that English players are lacking some skills, but I'm not sure this is true. Is Pique really that much better than Micah Richards? I don't think so.

So what is it? Is it coaching? That would be the one obvious conclusion if you look at England as all the top managers other than Fergie and O'Neill are foreign to the UK. But in Canada we get back to the problem of the number of professional clubs. Rafa Carbajal has done all he can in Canada, unless he is hired by one of our three pro clubs. Serbian Eagles is about as big as it will get for him unless he moves to another country. Personally I think our coaches should move to other countries and be more ambitious, but perhaps it speaks more to the quality of life in our country that most Canadians want to spend their post playing careers in Canada. So what does Rafa do? If he wins the CSL title with White Eagles, would any V be comfortable hiring him to coach our U-17s or U-20s? (Personally I would be). Even if so, there only so many jobs at the CSA. Where do the rest of the coaches prove themselves?

My only thought in this regard is to legislate a limit to the term of the U-17 and U-20 coaches. Give them a two year rotation and then demand they prove something "professionally" if they are to return. Can you imagine Stepen Hart taking over Toronto Supra (or whatever they're called now)? I think that would be good. We'd be able to tell if he can actually coach.

Seems to me, more pro clubs is still "the grass roots" solution. But that doesn't sound very grass roots to me.

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de Vos knows nothing...and our calls will go unheard....

dont get me wrong...I'm very thankful for what he has done with Canada while playing on the team...but this is a way for him to continue be in some kind of "spot light"...since an ex soccer player in Canada has really nothing else to do but get involved with some camps in his local community...

If he saw problems with the organization...he should of brought them up while he was captain...I doubt he saw any problem with that...

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quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

Exactly as noted above, we need more "professional" clubs. I use the quotes here so we don't have a ten page debate on whether the CSL is actually professional. Clearly this is a league that gives us at least some type of pro culture. If we had this type of league on a more national basis, we would be farther ahead.

Then again, if the number of professional clubs dictate the quality of your nation in terms of footballing, England would win every World Cup and Euro over Scotland. Clearly these UK nations are missing something too. Is it something in the proverbial grass roots? People might argue that English players are lacking some skills, but I'm not sure this is true. Is Pique really that much better than Micah Richards? I don't think so.

So what is it? Is it coaching? That would be the one obvious conclusion if you look at England as all the top managers other than Fergie and O'Neill are foreign to the UK. But in Canada we get back to the problem of the number of professional clubs. Rafa Carbajal has done all he can in Canada, unless he is hired by one of our three pro clubs. Serbian Eagles is about as big as it will get for him unless he moves to another country. Personally I think our coaches should move to other countries and be more ambitious, but perhaps it speaks more to the quality of life in our country that most Canadians want to spend their post playing careers in Canada. So what does Rafa do? If he wins the CSL title with White Eagles, would any V be comfortable hiring him to coach our U-17s or U-20s? (Personally I would be). Even if so, there only so many jobs at the CSA. Where do the rest of the coaches prove themselves?

My only thought in this regard is to legislate a limit to the term of the U-17 and U-20 coaches. Give them a two year rotation and then demand they prove something "professionally" if they are to return. Can you imagine Stepen Hart taking over Toronto Supra (or whatever they're called now)? I think that would be good. We'd be able to tell if he can actually coach.

Seems to me, more pro clubs is still "the grass roots" solution. But that doesn't sound very grass roots to me.

Once again your posts prove to be some of the best here. This should be sent as an email to the CSA, this is so obvious that if it was a dog it will bite you, it's there in front of everybody's face but everyone turns away from it. Why? is it because people who are already stablish in the "system" are afraid of losing their spot? or they are just simply afraid to learn from people with experience in the sport? I don't get it...

The coach you mention above already left Canada to learn overseas and experience what the real world of football is all about. He spend five years coaching in Italy at a decent professional level. So why aren't coaches like him already in the national system? who's in there with at least a similar experience? I tell you who, no body, not one of the coaches in the national system ever coached pro or have any experience coaching outside of Canada.

That's where the problem is, as you indicated correctly the problem here is coaching and when we get the odd ones with sufficient experience to help the system, they keep them away till they live the country for good, just like 2007 Canadian Lions coach Goran Miscevic did, he's now coaching pro in Qatar and making $200.000 per year. He was here, he wanted to stay but no body at the CSA give him a chance. I think your point about Stepen Hart is right on, but we all know that he will never put him self on the line coaching a real team with limited resources, where he would really need to show how much coaching knowledge and men management he's got to make a club like this work.

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On the coaching theme, I have another idea:

Regarding our 3 pro clubs, 4 out of 6 of our managers and ass mans are foreign. I have no problem with this, but there should be a trade off. What if we legislated that if the club has a foreign manager/number 2, then that club has to pay the salary of a domestic coach in another country. For example, TFC decide they want a foreign manager for the Academy; therefore, they send Jason Bent to Indepediente "on loan" to learn from their coaches.

From the sounds of things in Dallas, Bent did a very good job with TFCA. Who knows, maybe a lot of coaches like him are one break away from club success abroad, they just don't have the same infrastructure as players do to take advantage. Perhaps the CSA/Clubs could help a lot more in this regard. Just a thought.

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quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

On the coaching theme, I have another idea:

Regarding our 3 pro clubs, 4 out of 6 of our managers and ass mans are foreign. I have no problem with this, but there should be a trade off. What if we legislated that if the club has a foreign manager/number 2, then that club has to pay the salary of a domestic coach in another country. For example, TFC decide they want a foreign manager for the Academy; therefore, they send Jason Bent to Indepediente "on loan" to learn from their coaches.

From the sounds of things in Dallas, Bent did a very good job with TFCA. Who knows, maybe a lot of coaches like him are one break away from club success abroad, they just don't have the same infrastructure as players do to take advantage. Perhaps the CSA/Clubs could help a lot more in this regard. Just a thought.

Can't see something like that happening. It's a pretty intrusive rule that touches the administration and decision of the clubs. It could also be perceive as being discriminatory.

I think having people like Dasovic, Bent, Liminiatis and a few others in the staff of our pro clubs is already a good sign. We need to give it time IMO and let them developp as coaches. I don't think the CSA should make rules like you suggested that would surely be contested by the clubs because of the interference in their own business.

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quote:Originally posted by sergiop3

de Vos knows nothing...and our calls will go unheard....

dont get me wrong...I'm very thankful for what he has done with Canada while playing on the team...but this is a way for him to continue be in some kind of "spot light"...since an ex soccer player in Canada has really nothing else to do but get involved with some camps in his local community...

If he saw problems with the organization...he should of brought them up while he was captain...I doubt he saw any problem with that...

So, maybe he's wised up as the years have gone by. Maybe he feels less constrained now that speaking out won't necessarily affect his livelihood. Do you suggest he just sits by quietly and says/does nothing? He has a platform, we should be grateful he is willing and eloquent enough to use it for the good of the game and that his CBC bosses permit it. That's a whole lot more than many of the people who moan and grumble about the CSA and the state of the game in Canada are willing or able to do. Good for Jason, keep up the good work.
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quote:Originally posted by loyola

Can't see something like that happening. It's a pretty intrusive rule that touches the administration and decision of the clubs. It could also be perceive as being discriminatory.

I think having people like Dasovic, Bent, Liminiatis and a few others in the staff of our pro clubs is already a good sign. We need to give it time IMO and let them developp as coaches. I don't think the CSA should make rules like you suggested that would surely be contested by the clubs because of the interference in their own business.

Well if you're going to get all lawyer on me, we need to step back and ask a few questions. :)

Do the pro clubs need some type of certification from the Association? If so, then they would be able -in theory- to create some standards from the clubs. You may be right that this particular suggestion could be challenged as discriminatory or invasive, however I would think the CSA would have the right to suggest it.

More to the point, this type of arrangement would be better "negotiated" than "legislated." I think I mispoke there. Though "legislating" a 2 year maximum for the youth positions at the Association shouldn't be violating anyone's civil rights.

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