A poll: small majority support MLS team for Ottawa

[Luis_Rancagua]

Like I said in my previous posting, the city of Ottawa will have to bring both parties together and make a serious compromise that will benefit both MLS and CFL. One way to do this is by sharing the stadium in the Ottawa downtown core. On another note, Melnyk is not interested in knocking out the Vancouver bid. As the article states, he wants to join MLS by 2012 or 2013.

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Majority wants city to revitalize Lansdowne

By Doug Fischer, The Ottawa Citizen

February 14, 2009

Ottawa • Ottawans would be divided right down the middle if forced to choose between a professional soccer or football franchise for the city, according to a poll obtained by the Citizen on Friday.

But they are almost united in their opposition to the idea of a stadium in Kanata for either sport, the EKOS Research Associates survey says.

The poll, conducted Dec. 11-16 for the development group that wants to bring the Canadian Football League back to Ottawa, suggests there is broad support for both soccer and football.

Forty-four per cent of the 871 people surveyed said they supported a Major League Soccer team for Ottawa. Forty-three per cent preferred the idea of a CFL team. Thirteen per cent were unsure.

The poll also indicated that if the city is fortunate enough to be awarded franchises in both sports, most Ottawans think the two teams should share the stadium at Lansdowne Park. When asked their preferred location for a multi-purpose sports complex, 79 per cent named Lansdowne Park. Fifteen per cent chose Kanata.

The results are likely to complicate the growing rivalry between the two parties behind the bids to bring soccer and football to Ottawa.

Eugene Melnyk wants to build a $100-million soccer stadium in Kanata to support his efforts to secure a MLS expansion team by 2012 or 2013.

Mr. Melnyk, who owns the Ottawa Senators and Scotiabank Place, has made it clear he’s not interested in using Lansdowne Park for soccer.

On the other hand, the group that has already won a conditional CFL franchise says it would be willing to share Lansdowne Park with an MLS team.

However, Jeff Hunt, Bill Shenkman, Roger Greenberg and John Ruddy say their bid depends on city council approval of a $120-million redevelopment of Lansdowne Park. That centrepiece of their plan, dubbed Lansdowne Live, would include a renovated or rebuilt 25,000-seat Frank Clair Stadium as well as retail outlets, a hotel, townhouses and assorted sports fields.

Both projects require concessions from government. Mr. Melynk’s bid needs a piece of city land on which to build his stadium, as well as provincial and federal funding. The Lansdowne group wants the city to pay for the stadium, which would then be leased back for football.

Not surprisingly, the city’s method for deciding how to proceed promises to be drawn out and complicated.

Yesterday, city manager Kent Kirkpatrick outlined a two-stage process that will begin next Thursday with the release of a “needs analysis” evaluation of 23 possible stadium sites.

That will be followed by a study that will choose between the Lansdowne Live and Melynk proposals. That recommendation will then be debated at a special council meeting on March 25 and by the public on April 7. Council could make a final decision April 22.

The poll, meantime, suggests almost 80 per cent of Ottawans favour the Lansdowne Live plan, although Ekos president Frank Graves cautioned that some of that support is driven by cynicism sharpened by years of indecision over how to deal with Lansdowne’s deteriorating condition.

“A lot of people have trouble believing anything will ever get done to fix what they consider to be an embarrassment,” Mr. Graves said Friday. “They think we’ve packed our bags for a trip that will never happen.”

For instance, he noted, while 43 per cent of respondents believed there might be value in seeing other Lansdowne proposals, many of them nevertheless think it’s time to grab the offer on the table before it’s withdrawn.

Furthermore, he said, while 78 per cent of those polled said they favoured a redevelopment plan for Lansdowne that includes a multi-purpose sports and entertainment stadium, only 39 per cent actually believed it will happen.

Interestingly, it’s not the desire for a CFL franchise that is driving interest in fixing Lansdowne Park.

“What most people really like is the idea of taking this moribund — but important — part of the city and transforming it into something provides a variety of different things,” Mr. Graves said. “The CFL is definitely not the main thing.”

When asked to rate the value of various aspects of a plan to redevelop Lansdowne Park, 66 per cent of respondents said it was very important or essential that it include amateur sports facilities. By comparison, less than half of those polled said a CFL team and the Ottawa 67’s would be very important or essential components.

Overall, Mr. Graves said, the more features added to a Lansdowne redevelopment plan, the more support it attracts. And that could extend to putting a professional soccer franchise there as well, he said.

“The good news for Mr. Melnyk is that people like the idea of professional soccer for Ottawa,” Mr. Graves said. The bad news is they don’t want to traipse out to Kanata to see it.”

Mr. Graves conceded the poll is not perfect. It was conducted two months ago, before some of the recent public jockeying between the Melnyk and Lansdowne Live groups.

He also admitted the poll was released Friday to take advantage of the momentum created Thursday by CFL commissioner Mark Cohon’s public appeal to Ottawans to support the Lansdowne Live proposal. In fact, he said, there were no plans to release the poll until Mr. Cohon’s remarks.

“It was conducted originally to help inform our clients,” he said.

The poll is considered accurate to within 3.3 percentage points, plus or minus, 19 times in 20.

© Copyright © The Ottawa Citizen

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Sports/Majority+wants+city+revitalize+Lansdowne/1288533/story.html

[spiral]

If it's April 22, they won't make it in time for the MLS's deadline of March 19

[Luis_Rancagua]

quote:Originally posted by spiral

If it's April 22, they won't make it in time for the MLS's deadline of March 19

Spiral, Melnyk is not interested in knocking out the Vancouver bid. As the article states, he wants to join MLS by 2012 or 2013. What I think Melnyk is trying to do is earn a conditional bid from Garber that comes with conditions if he's awarded the stadium.

[tmcmurph]

Soccer is neck and neck with a Canadian sporting institution? Okay I guess we are making progress. I still think USL-1 for Ottawa would be the way for them to start. Get things going on the cheap and then think about moving up. In the mean time you could be in the Voyageurs Cup.

The bit about Kanata being a very distant second was no surprise. Downtown stadiums are the way to go.

[Luis_Rancagua]

After reading this article, why do I get this gut feeling that Garber is expected to make the following announcements:

-coming into the league for 2010 are Philadelphia and Miami

-coming into the league for 2011 are Vancouver and Portland

-coming into the league for 2012 are Ottawa, 2nd New York team, and Columbus Crew relocating to Montreal

Would anyone here senses these suspicions???? Dave Bailey, talk to me...Prove me that I'm wrong...Tell me that this only wishful thinking.

[ottawasoccerfan]

The probleam is meynk wants a world class stadium.He does not want to go the cheap route.

[Luis_Rancagua]

quote:Originally posted by ottawasoccerfan

The probleam is meynk wants a world class stadium.He does not want to go the cheap route.

Either Melnyk conceit to the wishes of the downtown core or destroy completely Frank Clair Stadium and build a brand new stadium in Downtown. According to public opinion, majority of Ottawaians soccer lovers want the stadium in downtown and not in the suburbs. Would you prefer to watch a game in downtown or Kanata???

[ottawasoccerfan]

There is not question about it downtown.What i do worry about is cfl fans see this as a victory.

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by Luis_Rancagua

After reading this article, why do I get this gut feeling that Garber is expected to make the following announcements:

-coming into the league for 2010 are Philadelphia and Miami

-coming into the league for 2011 are Vancouver and Portland

-coming into the league for 2012 are Ottawa, 2nd New York team, and Columbus Crew relocating to Montreal

Would anyone here senses these suspicions???? Dave Bailey, talk to me...Prove me that I'm wrong...Tell me that this only wishful thinking.

I don't think any sane person expects that.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by Luis_Rancagua

Either Melnyk conceit to the wishes of the downtown core or destroy completely Frank Clair Stadium and build a brand new stadium in Downtown. According to public opinion, majority of Ottawaians soccer lovers want the stadium in downtown and not in the suburbs. Would you prefer to watch a game in downtown or Kanata???

Doesn't matter what the fans prefer though does it? Melnyk doesn't have to conceit anything. That's the "beauty" of being a ring-leader in a cartel like the NHL and MLS. The whole supply-demand model is thrown out the window. [V]

[brownbear]

The title of this post betrays a lack of numerical literacy; since when is 44% of anything a "majority?"

The word you're looking for is plurality. A plurality of Ottawa residents supports an MLS club over a CFL club for the city, with 13% unsure about whom or what they support.

[Luis_Rancagua]

quote:Originally posted by brownbear

The title of this post betrays a lack of numerical literacy; since when is 44% of anything a "majority?"

The word you're looking for is plurality. A plurality of Ottawa residents supports an MLS club over a CFL club for the city, with 13% unsure about whom or what they support.

Brownbear, let's be honest...This is a small majority that needs at least 50% to be a real majority...Unless the 13% is leaning towards MLS.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

I strongly suspect that the CFL group were stunned when they were given the results of this poll. They were probably hoping for something like a 80:20 split to kill the debate dead in one fell swoop. Have to say I am pleasantly surprised that MLS would top the CFL in response to a question like that in a city like Ottawa. I doubt that soccer would have come out on top 20 years ago if people had been asked, If you were forced to choose between the Ottawa Rough Riders and the National Capital Region Pioneers, which team would you select?

[ChrisB]

Todays Citizen has an article about Councillors wanting facts, faster, on the stadia. Not worth pasting, but there is some interesting info about costs:

Melnyk Proposal (Kanata) - $110 Million, to be split amongst the Fed/Prov/Municipal government, with $10 Million of the Municipal portion to come in the form of land and a possible $10 Million contribution from Melnyk(to the City). The City would own the stadium and adjacent soccer fields.

Hunt proposal (Lansdowne) - $80 million, all to be paid for by the City. Tied in to the team proposal is a development costing $120 million to be paid for by the Hunt group including sports fields, an aquarium, shops, restaurants, housing etc. The City would own all assets except for the housing, but the Hunt group would get a long term lease.

Of course in light of the fact that all polling indicates the residents want a city downtown, it is unlikely that there would be city money for an out of town stadium.

Oh, and according to Council, these projects all count as "shovel-ready" infrastructure and thus are eleiible for grants from the feds. It appears that Melnyk has built that in.

[youllneverwalkalone]

^I don't know much about Ottawa, but the CFL has failed -embarrassingly so- several times. Melnyk, though I wouldn't give him a dime as an investor, has stabilized the Sens -with even a modest amount of success. Currently the break-even point for MLS is a lot lower than CFL, and being that the City wouldn't want to invest in another failure, I can't see how they wouldn't favor Melnyk?

[ottawasoccerfan]

To be fair the last cfl team the managment of the team really did not run it like a cfl team.The bigger probleam is the 67s need a new arena the gees need a new stadium and the ravens are looking at returning to oua football.With ladnsdown live the project aslo includes upgrades o the civic centre.

[ChrisB]

I am quite curious about how the cityis going to be evaluating potential stadium sites. Apparently they are looking at 23 location! Given the grief that the city has received over Lynx Stadium and SBank Place, I really cannot see any mone flowing out to Kanata.

Likely they will be looking at:

Parking

Transit

Local Amenities

Ability of roads to handle increased traffic

I think with Lansdowne, it is important to remember that there was NO parking for the U-20 WC. OCTranspo really stepped up to the plate, creating a shuttle service from Billings and Carleton, and I cannot recall any complaints about traffic. Likewise, the Ex has no parking, but people manage to get there. So the parking issue is (to me) a bit of a red herring - yes SBank Place has tonnes of parking, but it needs it being out in the middle of nowhere. Lebreton Flats and Lansdowne do not require much dedicated parking (and yes families take the bus - or at least my family always did to get to Canucks games).

I think one of the things the citywill do is draw a circle around the Kanata complex and see how many people live with 30 minutes (by any method of transportation - or different circles by foot, bike, bus, car) and then do the same for Lansdowne and Lebreton. That calculus will surely favour the latter two locations.

Finally, in this mammoth post, Gee Gee and Raven football will be played at whatever stadium is established. Lansdowne is halfway between the two, and no more than a 30 minute walk from either. How many students are going to bus out to Kanata.

In conclusion, I have to imagine the city will offer Melnyk the land, but no other financial contribution. However they will actively promote a multi-use stadium at Lansdowne. The CFL boys have said they have applied to the CFL for permission to use grass instead of field turf. The proposed stadium (go to Lansdowne Live) will not be awful for Soccer - theyare planning on leaving the end zones free of seats anyways (to enhance the gorgeous sightlines you get of the canal and off the canal).

[cfof]

If it does happen for them, they HAVE to steal the Ottawa 67s' jerseys:

Seriously, it'd be the best MLS kit by a mile.

[Alex M]

Regarding parking at Landsdowne. Glebites are the ones fighting this thing tooth and nail because of just that reason, parking. It creates chaos in their otherwise quiet streets and are completely against having a stadium and football team in their area. I couldn't really care less about what they want but it's something that the city will have to factor in considering they're one of the highest tax paying communities in the city.

I know Carleton didn't have a football team. Are they getting one back? Your post seems to indicate they have.

[ChrisB]

quote:Originally posted by Alex M

Regarding parking at Landsdowne. Glebites are the ones fighting this thing tooth and nail because of just that reason, parking. It creates chaos in their otherwise quiet streets and are completely against having a stadium and football team in their area. I couldn't really care less about what they want but it's something that the city will have to factor in considering they're one of the highest tax paying communities in the city.

I know Carleton didn't have a football team. Are they getting one back? Your post seems to indicate they have.

I had heard that Carleton was going to get back into football. And, as someone who lives within 200 feet of Lansdowne Park (as the crow flies) I an tell you that the Glebe is not completely opposed to a stadium. What I think people are opposed to is this development for the whole of the pak being rammed down our throats in the name of football.

As I have stated elsewhere, I would rather have no team if our only option is a complete sellout of Lansdowne Park to devlopers in exchange for a stadium.

[Luis_Rancagua]

CHRIS STEVENSON, news reporter for the SUN MEDIA, should get his fact straight before he makes comments that are based on deep emotions...His writing is pathetic....Let's face it, CFL in Ottawa has been dismal failure.

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Soccer group tackled

'The strength of football in Ottawa and Canada has never been stronger'

By CHRIS STEVENSON, SUN MEDIA

February 18, 2009

Apparently you don't want to take a poke at the football community around here.

That's pretty much what Senators owner Eugene Melnyk did last week when, in a meeting with the Sun's editorial board, he said he was betting $50 million (the price of an MLS expansion franchise) on whether soccer or CFL football would be around 25 years from now.

Melnyk didn't make it sound like he was dumping on the CFL, just that he believes soccer is the sport of the future and he was betting $50 million of his own coin (the MLS franchise fee is $40 million US) that there will be lots of Ottawans willing to fill a 20,000-seat soccer specific stadium adjacent to Scotiabank Place over the next few years.

As you might expect, Melnyk's take that soccer will outlive the CFL didn't go over well with the football stakeholders.

On the heels of a passionate rebuttal on the popularity and longevity of his league by CFL commissioner Mark Cohon last week, Football Canada, the guardians of the game in our country, stepped up to the plate to take its own swings yesterday.

CLARIFY MISCONCEPTIONS

"There's been some reference to football being yesterday's sport. We think it's important to clarify the misconceptions and misinformation about the strength of football in Canada. It's today's sport and tomorrow's sport," said Football Canada CEO Richard Munro at a press conference in which Football Canada threw its support (there's a surprise, huh?) behind the bid by the group fronted by Jeff Hunt to bring the CFL back to a revitalized Frank Clair Stadium at Lansdowne Park.

"The strength of football in Ottawa and Canada has never been stronger and the game is just exploding world wide."

The footballers are dismayed that Melnyk's vision for an outdoor stadium does not include the CFL option. Melnyk's proposed stadium will be soccer specific and he's made his feelings about Canadian pro football clear.

"We've been excluded," said Munro. "Football is not even part of the discussion there. (The Hunt proposal) is inclusive, not exclusive."

"Soccer has always been part of our thinking," said Hunt. "(Melnyk) has decided to go with a soccer-only solution. Our door is always open. We don't take a rigid position. We hope soccer will one day be part of Lansdowne Live."

Football Canada is celebrating its 125th anniversary and 2009 also represents the 135th anniversary of the match between McGill University and Harvard University, which is regarded as the genesis of modern-day football in North America (there is no truth that Mark Kosmos played in that game. I think he was red-shirted as a freshman).

PROUD OF HERITAGE

Like Cohon said of the CFL last week, Football Canada is proud of Canadian heritage and "its legacy of significant contribution to the cultural fabric of Canada," as it said in its literature handed out yesterday at the press conference.

There is no denying soccer's grassroots appeal in our country (about 870,000 total registered players in Canada according to the Canadian Soccer Association website), but football has been making its own gains, said Munro.

There are more than 400,000 participants, according to Football Canada, playing one of the sport's three disciplines: Tackle, flag and touch football.

"In 1994, we had 8,000 members in Quebec. Now we have 27,000-28,000," said Munro. "That's part of the reason there was such a great turnout for the Grey Cup in Montreal."

Both the Hunt and Melnyk groups are looking for about $80 million in funding for their stadium plans from the various levels of government. For that type of investment, all of the stakeholders in the future of sports and entertainment in our city deserve to have their voices heard.

We're going to have to live with the result for the next 30 years.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Columnists/Stevenson/2009/02/18/pf-8433121.html

[Guest Ed]

^ 400,000 participants sounds pretty bogus to me. Are they including high school programs? There is no way on earth that youth participation in pointy ball is approx 50% of soccer participation here in (pointy ball crazy) Calgary.

[Luis_Rancagua]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

^ 400,000 participants sounds pretty bogus to me. Are they including high school programs? There is no way on earth that youth participation in pointy ball is approx 50% of soccer participation here in (pointy ball crazy) Calgary.

Ed, this is exactly why I question Stevenson's figures...He claims that he got the numbers from Football Canada (I don't think so).

[RS]

"The strength of football in Ottawa and Canada has never been stronger and the game is just exploding world wide."

Is it really a good strategy to even indirectly (or unintentionally) compare the popularity of gridiron football versus soccer worldwide?

[Guest Ed]

^ I've got the figures now. The 92,000 would of course be the comparison to make with CSA's membership count. Add school, university and other sources to the existing 870,000 for a fair comparison.

Numbers from Football Canada:

a. 92,000 members in Football Canada

b. 400,000+ participants playing football within the three disciplines – encompassing school, university and community levels that embrace competitive and recreational leagues.

Being one of the senior members here (age wise) I would categorize pointy ball as my father's game (i.e., grandfather's game to most on here), soccer as my son's (and your) game.