Its Called Football Feb. 7 - Guest Bob Lenarduzzi

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

I like the logic of pseudo-journalists, who label themselves as much on this board: the poster on a fan board deserves greater scrutiny than the guy publishing a blog or doing a broadcast for the general public. Basically a subterfuge for being irresponsible in public. If you don't got it, flaunt it. Live and in colour too.

I also like the way the ones who have a public platform are all worried about what the peanut gallery has to say, even trying to make it shut up or control it. Think classic journalistic codes used to say it was just the opposite, but time are changing I guess. Give a guy a microphone and he thinks he's big brother.

At least Duane should have the honesty to admit he slagged BC Place for different reasons than he thinks the MLS might have to question it. Loose lipped and shifty too. Is he making the MLS argument, or his own opinion? And when was the last time he saw soccer there to make an intelligent judgement? BC Place renovated will kill BMO, just my opinion.

But leaving Vancouver aside--I know TFC fans are jealous because when Vancouver gets in TO will no longer have the largest crowds in MLS (and lets not even get into the ridiculously petty effort to downplay Montreal's crowd vs. Santos Laguna next week, publicly flaunting their hard won TFC insecurity)--you have to wonder about their views on Ottawa.

Ottawa, the Canadian hinterland. Sit in a Starbucks on Bay Street and take out your binoculars. You can almost see it, and if you can't, you can make it all up. Not a single opinion was based on research, it was all hearsay, speculation, my friend said, a few years ago I went there and I saw this, my feeling is. Fluff about CFL galore. But consensus--almost--on Taylor Field for chrissakes! You have a whole week to maybe make a phone call or two and gather some data, not just land in your seat and yap off the top of your head, like you are in a bar drunk with friends. Or on a fan board like this where you are allowed to do just that. But no. That is irresponsible journalism and you can't defend it by saying oh, we are just goofing around, or by taking a stab at your critics.

I thoroughly enjoyed the show however and hope to tune in to future broadcasts. Seriously. My criticisms were soft I think, in summary: unnecessary slagging of BC Place without basis; ignorant rambling on about Ottawa; slagging Montreal's amazing crowd for next week's match; immaturity and dishonesty in the face of criticism. The rest was great. I thought what Duane had to say about Man City was spot on, only place outside of Toronto that got a fair shake. Go figure.

Ironic, don`t you think, that you take me to task for not being able to take criticism when you are unable to deal with any critique of the Vancouver bid?

I'm fine with criticism. But, I`m also confident in my information. I spend more time researching, have more sources on, and have a fuller understanding of the MLS expansion situation -- the entire situation in both countries -- than any single person on this board. On this topic I would put my depth of knowledge up there with anyone in the country, period. I literally spend hours every day gathering information on the MLS expansion process. My opinion is informed, very much so, and far more informed than yours. Don`t agreeÉ Then prove it.

You did not address a single point from my second post. Not one. Yet, I'm the uninformed one that is letting my bias get in the way.

My bias, Jeffrey, is for Vancouver to get in. That's what I as a Canadian wants to see. As a trained journalist with more than a decade experience, I put aside that bias when I evaluate the bids.

So let me ask you again. Within the context of all the bids, and taking into consideration what MLS is looking for, why is the BC Place plan good enough to win the bid for Vancouver.

I eagerly await your answer.

[Joe MacCarthy]

^^Seeing as you are the self acknowledged site expert on MLS expansion I'd be interested if you could deign to give us your opinion of this excellent post by Vancouversoccerman

Hmmm...let's see. By your logic, MLS is going to screw over a billionaire with three multi-multi-multi millionaire high-profile partners with connections to the NBA and MLB and High-Traffic Internet, who've secured an agreement to use a refurbished stadium that looks like something out of the 2006 World Cup, and has been modified for their projected attendance, AND they have specific plans AND LAND to build what MLS calls a "Soccer Specific Stadium", WHILE their soccer rivals & business friends in Seattle sell 20,000 SEASON tickets in a similar stadium, WHILE knowing full well that after selling 48,000 FULL PRICE tickets for a Beckham friendly that they wouldn't probably have to sweat to beat TFC's "Stadium Sold Out" Crowds (No disrespect, TFC...I know you could take on more if you had a bigger stadium) in return for just a good USA soccer town that might build them a stadium one day?

Portland will get in if they've got the money and the stadium. I'm more certain that Vancouver will get in either before, or at the same time as Portland.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

I'm fine with criticism. But, I`m also confident in my information. I spend more time researching, have more sources on, and have a fuller understanding of the MLS expansion situation -- the entire situation in both countries -- than any single person on this board. On this topic I would put my depth of knowledge up there with anyone in the country, period. I literally spend hours every day gathering information on the MLS expansion process. My opinion is informed, very much so, and far more informed than yours. Don`t agreeÉ Then prove it.

I wonder why any of us bother to post with a genius like you on the board!

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

I know TFC fans are jealous because when Vancouver gets in TO will no longer have the largest crowds in MLS

For all you claim to "know", you seem to willfully ignore that TFC has never had the largest crowds in MLS. A point all informed TFC fans would already "know".

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

For all you claim to "know", you seem to willfully ignore that TFC has never had the largest crowds in MLS. A point all informed TFC fans would already "know".

Rudi, I know that was hyperbole and we are gearing up for the Voyageurs Cup and all that. Like most here I wish TFC would just win a half dozen more games in regular season to give the great fan atmosphere something more to cheer about.

I just object to a show coming out of Toronto being so systematically disrespectful and ignorant of any reality further away than Oshawa, it is arrogant, unjustified and frankly should be embarrassing for those running it. And it wasn't Ben or Chantelle this time, Duane had a go at everything not Toronto, including Ivor Wynne of all things, Miami, Ottawa, Montreal, Vancouver. That is a first class loser mentality and he was a sad replacement for the other Ben just on that basis.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

Ironic, don`t you think, that you take me to task for not being able to take criticism when you are unable to deal with any critique of the Vancouver bid?

I'm fine with criticism. But, I`m also confident in my information. I spend more time researching, have more sources on, and have a fuller understanding of the MLS expansion situation -- the entire situation in both countries -- than any single person on this board. On this topic I would put my depth of knowledge up there with anyone in the country, period. I literally spend hours every day gathering information on the MLS expansion process. My opinion is informed, very much so, and far more informed than yours. Don`t agreeÉ Then prove it.

You did not address a single point from my second post. Not one. Yet, I'm the uninformed one that is letting my bias get in the way.

My bias, Jeffrey, is for Vancouver to get in. That's what I as a Canadian wants to see. As a trained journalist with more than a decade experience, I put aside that bias when I evaluate the bids.

So let me ask you again. Within the context of all the bids, and taking into consideration what MLS is looking for, why is the BC Place plan good enough to win the bid for Vancouver.

I eagerly await your answer.

If you are a trained journalist then that speaks very badly for whoever trained you, or, maybe, whoever passed you. If you did pass.

As for your comments on MLS, well I think they speak for themselves. Anyone so high on his professional opinion in the face of overwhelming reality to the contrary is simply big-headed and probably mighty insecure. I too, I admit, am big-headed, but I am not a professional sports journalist nor pretend to be.

Here I am screwing around on a fan thread, and sort of dig the wildness of it all, but you are making yourself look professionally foolish on this board by making deluded claims about your MLS knowledge, which do not at all pan out in what you say or write. Maybe it is as simple as you cannot translate your research into ideas. But nice try anyways.

[Guest speedmonk42]

I don't see why people think BC Place is going to be so great.

I don't trust the process at all. I also feel that once the money is spent on it, it might kill the hope of a grass SSS.

History pretty much tells us who the second class citizen in this arrangement is going to be.

I think there is a psychological impact to pareing down the stadium for the Whitecaps games. Second rate, that's all I can think of.

It would still be cheaper to build both teams a stadium, and spend the hundred million plus dollars left over on something like... schools? hospitals?

The whole thing is sick beyond comprehension.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

If you are a trained journalist then that speaks very badly for whoever trained you, or, maybe, whoever passed you. If you did pass.

As for your comments on MLS, well I think they speak for themselves. Anyone so high on his professional opinion in the face of overwhelming reality to the contrary is simply big-headed and probably mighty insecure. I too, I admit, am big-headed, but I am not a professional sports journalist nor pretend to be.

Here I am screwing around on a fan thread, and sort of dig the wildness of it all, but you are making yourself look professionally foolish on this board by making deluded claims about your MLS knowledge, which do not at all pan out in what you say or write. Maybe it is as simple as you cannot translate your research into ideas. But nice try anyways.

You're still not answering the question. Why is BC Place good enough to win the bid?

[SteveBeau]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

I like the logic of pseudo-journalists, who label themselves as much on this board: the poster on a fan board deserves greater scrutiny than the guy publishing a blog or doing a broadcast for the general public. Basically a subterfuge for being irresponsible in public. If you don't got it, flaunt it. Live and in colour too.

I also like the way the ones who have a public platform are all worried about what the peanut gallery has to say, even trying to make it shut up or control it. Think classic journalistic codes used to say it was just the opposite, but time are changing I guess. Give a guy a microphone and he thinks he's big brother.

At least Duane should have the honesty to admit he slagged BC Place for different reasons than he thinks the MLS might have to question it. Loose lipped and shifty too. Is he making the MLS argument, or his own opinion? And when was the last time he saw soccer there to make an intelligent judgement? BC Place renovated will kill BMO, just my opinion.

But leaving Vancouver aside--I know TFC fans are jealous because when Vancouver gets in TO will no longer have the largest crowds in MLS (and lets not even get into the ridiculously petty effort to downplay Montreal's crowd vs. Santos Laguna next week, publicly flaunting their hard won TFC insecurity)--you have to wonder about their views on Ottawa.

Ottawa, the Canadian hinterland. Sit in a Starbucks on Bay Street and take out your binoculars. You can almost see it, and if you can't, you can make it all up. Not a single opinion was based on research, it was all hearsay, speculation, my friend said, a few years ago I went there and I saw this, my feeling is. Fluff about CFL galore. But consensus--almost--on Taylor Field for chrissakes! You have a whole week to maybe make a phone call or two and gather some data, not just land in your seat and yap off the top of your head, like you are in a bar drunk with friends. Or on a fan board like this where you are allowed to do just that. But no. That is irresponsible journalism and you can't defend it by saying oh, we are just goofing around, or by taking a stab at your critics.

I thoroughly enjoyed the show however and hope to tune in to future broadcasts. Seriously. My criticisms were soft I think, in summary: unnecessary slagging of BC Place without basis; ignorant rambling on about Ottawa; slagging Montreal's amazing crowd for next week's match; immaturity and dishonesty in the face of criticism. The rest was great. I thought what Duane had to say about Man City was spot on, only place outside of Toronto that got a fair shake. Go figure.

^

I was starting to think i was the only one that noticed that...

[SteveBeau]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

I like the logic of pseudo-journalists, who label themselves as much on this board: the poster on a fan board deserves greater scrutiny than the guy publishing a blog or doing a broadcast for the general public. Basically a subterfuge for being irresponsible in public. If you don't got it, flaunt it. Live and in colour too.

I also like the way the ones who have a public platform are all worried about what the peanut gallery has to say, even trying to make it shut up or control it. Think classic journalistic codes used to say it was just the opposite, but time are changing I guess. Give a guy a microphone and he thinks he's big brother.

At least Duane should have the honesty to admit he slagged BC Place for different reasons than he thinks the MLS might have to question it. Loose lipped and shifty too. Is he making the MLS argument, or his own opinion? And when was the last time he saw soccer there to make an intelligent judgement? BC Place renovated will kill BMO, just my opinion.

But leaving Vancouver aside--I know TFC fans are jealous because when Vancouver gets in TO will no longer have the largest crowds in MLS (and lets not even get into the ridiculously petty effort to downplay Montreal's crowd vs. Santos Laguna next week, publicly flaunting their hard won TFC insecurity)--you have to wonder about their views on Ottawa.

Ottawa, the Canadian hinterland. Sit in a Starbucks on Bay Street and take out your binoculars. You can almost see it, and if you can't, you can make it all up. Not a single opinion was based on research, it was all hearsay, speculation, my friend said, a few years ago I went there and I saw this, my feeling is. Fluff about CFL galore. But consensus--almost--on Taylor Field for chrissakes! You have a whole week to maybe make a phone call or two and gather some data, not just land in your seat and yap off the top of your head, like you are in a bar drunk with friends. Or on a fan board like this where you are allowed to do just that. But no. That is irresponsible journalism and you can't defend it by saying oh, we are just goofing around, or by taking a stab at your critics.

I thoroughly enjoyed the show however and hope to tune in to future broadcasts. Seriously. My criticisms were soft I think, in summary: unnecessary slagging of BC Place without basis; ignorant rambling on about Ottawa; slagging Montreal's amazing crowd for next week's match; immaturity and dishonesty in the face of criticism. The rest was great. I thought what Duane had to say about Man City was spot on, only place outside of Toronto that got a fair shake. Go figure.

^

I was starting to think i was the only one that noticed that...

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by SteveBeau

^

I was starting to think i was the only one that noticed that...

Here is the thing on the Montreal ticket situation. I've likely become a little too focused on the negatives and not enough of the positives. Listen to what I said at the end of the discussion on the show. I give credit to Montreal.

There is nothing wrong with papering the house, if, in fact, that's what Montreal is doing.

Why this story interests me is because it's so out of the blue. I wanted to know how they were doing it and I didn't accept that it was just a spontaneous groundswell of interest.

I strongly disagree with the assertion that pointing out that much of the ticket sales have been to groups is a negative, however. It's the truth. That doesn't mean the Impact have sold any less tickets, but it does explain why the sales suddenly slowed down. I do look forward to seeing how many show up. I suspect it will be around 30,000, which will still be an incredible accomplishment. If I'm wrong...good for Montreal. I hope you build on it.

Jeffrey shows no understanding of this whatsoever, but being a journalist does not mean that you blow smoke up the ass of things that you are "supposed" to support. It also does not mean that you blindly accept what the team's PR department tells you. I appreciate that by writing this candidly that there will be some on here that will want to discredit me. That's fine, they are entitled to form their own opinion and I know that for every Jeffrey out there are 10 readers/listeners that enjoy what I and others are trying to build.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

If you were 10% as rigorous about being critical of the press and of soccer club management with TFC and MLSE as you claim to be about everything else you know a hell of a lot less about, you might be given some credit.

But let me ask you this: if you are, as you have proclaimed, the most knowledgeable person around about MLS, how come you have not been recognized by your peers as such? Are they really that jealous of you? Is the whole system of the press rotten? Do we no longer live in a meritocracy? Or are you basically full of it?

By the way, MediaGuy, I count myself amongst those you appreciate what you and others are trying to build. As long as the phrase stays "you and others" I am fine with it.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

If you were 10% as rigorous about being critical of the press and of soccer club management with TFC and MLSE as you claim to be about everything else you know a hell of a lot less about, you might be given some credit.

But let me ask you this: if you are, as you have proclaimed, the most knowledgeable person around about MLS, how come you have not been recognized by your peers as such? Are they really that jealous of you? Is the whole system of the press rotten? Do we no longer live in a meritocracy? Or are you basically full of it?

By the way, MediaGuy, I count myself amongst those you appreciate what you and others are trying to build. As long as the phrase stays "you and others" I am fine with it.

I said that I would put my knowledge of MLS expansion up against anyone in the country. I did not say that I was "the most knowledgeable person around about MLS." But that's a nice little trick of rhetoric you just pulled.

I started the blog in November. I was just offered a major sponsorship deal today (literally today). I'm widely linked throughout Canada and the United States on both independent blogs and those connected to the mainstream. Again, this is in three and a half months in the off-season. It takes time to build something and I'm happy with the growth.

FWIW, the blog is accessed about 600 times a day, with that number representing about 400 unique visitors. My biggest day had 1,200 visits and 800 visitors. On average 27 per cent of my visitors are from Toronto proper, 35 per cent are from the GTA (including Hamilton) and 57 per cent are from Southern Ontario (including Ottawa). In total, 76 per cent of my traffic is Canadian and 19 per cent is American. International visits represent less than 1 per cent and typically are referred from this board. The difference in the number represents visits that can't be traced.

There it is Jeffrey. That’s all I claim to be.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

I said that I would put my knowledge of MLS expansion up against anyone in the country. I did not say that I was "the most knowledgeable person around about MLS." But that's a nice little trick of rhetoric you just pulled.

I started the blog in November. I was just offered a major sponsorship deal today (literally today). I'm widely linked throughout Canada and the United States on both independent blogs and those connected to the mainstream. Again, this is in three and a half months in the off-season. It takes time to build something and I'm happy with the growth.

FWIW, the blog is accessed about 600 times a day, with that number representing about 400 unique visitors. My biggest day had 1,200 visits and 800 visitors. On average 27 per cent of my visitors are from Toronto proper, 35 per cent are from the GTA (including Hamilton) and 57 per cent are from Southern Ontario (including Ottawa). In total, 76 per cent of my traffic is Canadian and 19 per cent is American. International visits represent less than 1 per cent and typically are referred from this board. The difference in the number represents visits that can't be traced.

There it is Jeffrey. That’s all I claim to be.

Nice to see the blog is doing well.

[TT5]

BC Place isn't the best venue for soccer, but it was full for the David Beckham game against the Whitecaps, it is also getting a renovation, which will make it look like a cross between Gelsenkirchin and the Frankfurt stadia in Germany. The Whitecaps have signed a 5 year lease, in doing so, they will play there until 2016, while moving forward with their Waterfront stadium plan. But if you look at the rest of the MLS expansion possibilities, remember, Miami has solid ownership, just like Vancouver, but will not play in a SSS. Ottawa can't figure out if they will even build stadium for soccer or football and Garber told the Roughriders/renegades owners that if they can build a stadium like that in T.O. and use it for both football and soccer, they would have an opportunity for an MLS team, that doesn't sound like they HAVE to have a SSS. Portland is on shaky ground now with their stadium as it appears that the City and State government wouldn't look great shelling out money to repair and convert a baseball stadium to a soccer stadium and St. Louis doesn't even have a stadium built and Garber has said numerous times that he isn't sure the money is there for St. Louis.

So what does that all mean?

It means that despite Vancouver not having a great facility... neither do any of the other 5 remaining cities. So don't be surprised if Vancouver gets a team.

By the way, people have mentioned Seattle's Qwest Field not being SSS and they got a team. The reason the MLS likes that stadium inparticular is because the owners of the Sounders, own the field, which makes it a highly attraction revenue stream for the MLS when big European clubs (Chelsea) come in. With the Sounders getting part of the money and the MLS raking in some of that money. That's 67,000 seats, (MLS All-Star game anyone anytime soon?) compared to some place like Toronto that can seat 22,000 for a West Ham All-Star visit.

[spiral]

So Media Guy, Vancouver is OUT; is that the case presently?

With Miami effectively out with their negative comments today, with two spots left, would Portland and Vancouver not nicely fill those 2 spots?

[Vic]

Just followed a link somewhere here and ended up on the 24 blog for the first time:

quote:

"In the meantime, I'm going to point Ottawa readers to the Big Soccer expansion forum. There you will find a single thread talking about Ottawa. I wrote last week that for Ottawa to be successful its equivalent of the U-Sector/Red Patch Boys/ North End Elite will need to find each other. The best way for that to initially happen is online. So if you want to see Ottawa in MLS go, post and network. Make sure to request that the Big Soccer administrators add Ottawa on as a full sub-forum so that even more likeminded fans will find you. Then before long you'll find yourself in the basement of some guy that you only knew as "UpTheCapitalCityFc" hours before making a two-stick tifo display. And you will not understand how you lived your life before that moment."

Good God man. Forums and supporter groups of non-existant franchises are like popsicles in a housing deal. Transactions involving hundreds of millions of dollars have absolutely nothing to do with anything other than cold hard economic facts, and the willingness of investors to part with their money.