Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 As most would remember, the announcement that Toronto would be joining MLS was not greeted with excitement from coast to coast. Some suggested that bring thing the American league to Canada would ultimately be the worst thing to happen to soccer in Canada. To me, TFC has been the best thing to ever happen to the sport in this country. I'll expand on that later, but for now I'm curious to see what others think. Three years in has your opinion of MLS in Canada changed? Do you think we are better off today than we were in 2005? Or, do you think that the big crowds have blinded us to the problems inherent on relying on a foreign league to develop the club game? What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy As most would remember, the announcement that Toronto would be joining MLS was not greeted with excitement from coast to coast. Some suggested that bring thing the American league to Canada would ultimately be the worst thing to happen to soccer in Canada. To me, TFC has been the best thing to ever happen to the sport in this country. I'll expand on that later, but for now I'm curious to see what others think. Three years in has your opinion of MLS in Canada changed? Do you think we are better off today than we were in 2005? Or, do you think that the big crowds have blinded us to the problems inherent on relying on a foreign league to develop the club game? What do you think? Even as an Impact fan/TFC hater:D, I would have to say a resounding yes. In pretty much every area they have helped the game in Canada with the exception of the development of Canadian talent where they have not done as much as they should have. Much of this is probably due to having in my opinion a poor manager (probably hired because MLS was already on the hook for his contract) who doesn't believe in Canadian talent. Otherwise though TFC has really boosted soccer in Canada in ways both easy to see directly and in other ways whose effect will be realized in years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 The one big thing that TFC has done is boost awareness of the sport. I'm not sure what other aspects of the sport in Canada (not just southern Ontario) have benefited from their presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Same thoughts as Grizz. TFC is great for soccer in Canada, for getting people aware and out to support their local club. In two seasons, it has not proved anything with regards to developing Canadian talent (veteran or youth), one of its stated goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Pretty much what Griz & Dan said with one extra point. The TFC supporters have set the standard not just for Canada but for English speaking North America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulsar Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Outside the field, TFC support groups have created a buzz in the league amongst other fans, thus setting a precedent for other support groups to step it up a notch and really provide an atmosphere at games. There have been a host of players throughout the MLS that have stated they love the atmosphere in T.O. I think houston, colorado and as well as some eastern teams have fans creating (improving) the atmosphere. This is where true rivalries start. It's the fans that will kick the passion up more so than the players. For this reason i hope vancouver and portland are awarded MLS franchises because with fan groups traveling back and forth it can only fuel the passion and awareness for the game....but to answer the question.....TFC has been a blessing for soccer in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squizz1402635577 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 The clearly pro-Canadian turnout at the Jamaica match would not have materialized without the TFC supporters groups. Full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Daniel In two seasons, it has not proved anything with regards to developing Canadian talent (veteran or youth), one of its stated goals. I guess we'll see at the upcoming Concacaf U17 & U20 WC Qualifying and hopefully, the respective Youth WCs. If Nana & Gala are two of the best players on the team, I would say TFC did have a hand in developing Canadian talent. Same goes with the U17s which feature 4 players from the TFC Academy and 2 others who started there and went on to the Whitecaps. No before anyone jumps all over me, I do reaize that each of these players developed elsewhere as well, so TFC doesn't get all the credit, but sure as hell had a hand in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I don't think two years, and only one with the Academy, is enough time to assess the developmental impact on the country. I said two year ago that if the Lynx can produce Stalteri, DeRosario, Serioux, Hutchinson, Pozniak, etc. then TFC will have a huge impact on our National teams one day. MoJo is holding this process back somewhat, though the league as a whole needs to take a look at itself and question whether they really are a developmental league. It looks to me that NCAA does a mediocre job of what proper academies could do very well. I hope that with new leadership TFC can become an advocate for a proper club structure -hopefully making it easier for Vancouver to enter the league in 2011 and begin what will be a dynasty not seen since the days of '86. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Despite some shortcomings by MoJo, I think TFC has helped the Canadian game. And the new rivalry between TFC, the Impact, and the Whitecaps has brought more excitement since the CSL days of the 80s. In a few more years, I'll be curious to see who'll be the stars coming out of TFC, just like the young CSL stars that came out of that league: De Vos, Radzinski, Peschisolido, Catliff, Mobilio, Bunbury, Onstad, etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBeau Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 quote:Originally posted by squizz The clearly pro-Canadian turnout at the Jamaica match would not have materialized without the TFC supporters groups. Full stop. I totally agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Can't say I'm as enthusiastic as some others about the positive effects TFC/MLS has had for Canadian football. In some ways I'm overjoyed. Absolutely overjoyed and will admit that TFC will positively effect football in Canada (not just the GTA) indirectly over the long haul. But in other ways I'm disappointed even if I'm willing to give the club/league the benefit of the doubt. You can only focus your attention on so many areas at once and TFC, as an organization is still very much an infant and very much a work in progress third year in or no. So I'm not willing to condemn TFC's shortcomings just yet. The jury is still out in a few areas. From a media standpoint TFC has been AA+. No one could ask for better to this point but I'm not sure that completely translates into gains for Canadian soccer if you weigh TFC's gains against USL losses. Thought to be honest I feel Vancouver & Montreal have both enjoyed some benefits from TFC's success. The USL/MLS issue is huge for me and is continuing to play out. No, I wouldn't say my opinion of MLS in Canada has changed one way or another in spite of TFC's success. My opinion of MLS overall has gone down to be honest but that has been more a result of my increased education of the league because of TFC's participation than other factors. Directly, I'd say TFC has added a level of spirit and emotion to Canadian soccer on a scale hither to unseen. Hugely important that. It's an focused passion and energy that can grow on itself, but it still didn't get us to South Africa. Indirectly, I'd say TFC has added a level of spirit and emotion to Canadian soccer on a scale hither to unseen with a focused energy and passion that grows on itself and may yet be one of the principle reasons responsible for getting us to Brazil. Long and short I see lots of good from TFC and lots of less than good. The scales haven't yet settled one way or another but I'll admit they're certainly tilting in TFC's favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Ivan Agreed. Especially the U17 team. Normally, I would not have placed much stock in this level of international soccer. But this upcoming round of Concacaf qualifying, is completely different because it will be the first true evaluation of our international performance while having a club development structure in place( ie.: private sector $$$ flowing into development). Previously, the entire burden of player development was laid at the feet of a national association / volunteer system. The effect on the U20 teams will take a little longer to materialize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcisoul Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I live in SASK so even for me TFC is great, i didnt really watch the MLS before Toronto became a team other than watching the MLS Cup. So TFC helped me get into Soccer in Canada. I think TFC helps people realize how much people in Canada love soccer. Eventually i might start helping Canadain players when Montreal and Vancouver get an MLS team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Other important effects: 1) Getting TFC into MLS has spurred interest from wealthy investors to look at soccer. Prior to to TFC one would never have thought of people like (composition of) the group in Vancouver, Eugene Melnyk or George Gillet ever being associated with soccer in Canada. 2) Media exposure and the game's profile, has increase ten fold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Daniel In two seasons, it has not proved anything with regards to developing Canadian talent (veteran or youth), one of its stated goals. Same old same old from certain posters who still don't seem to be able to come to terms with the fact that roster rules had to be adjusted after the affordable and available fringe CMNT players like Braz, Reda, Pozniak and Canizalez turned out not to be good enough for MLS. The fact that elite youth development in the GTA has been taken over by a properly run pro club and is no longer in the hands of the incompetent OSA is a major step forward, in my opinion, and it's not clear to me why that can be so readily ignored by some on here. Beyond that what exactly are some of you expecting in player development terms after just two seasons when TFC have only had the opportunity to start working with players in their late rather than than their early to mid teens? Having Attakora Gyan and Rosenlund looking like they have a legitimate shot at carving out solid pro careers with a move to the senior roster in the next season or two seems to me to be about par for the course right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard Same old same old from certain posters who still don't seem to be able to come to terms with the fact that roster rules had to be adjusted after the affordable and available fringe CMNT players like Braz, Reda, Pozniak and Canizalez turned out not to be good enough for MLS. The fact that elite youth development in the GTA has been taken over by a properly run pro club and is no longer in the hands of the incompetent OSA is a major step forward, in my opinion, and it's not clear to me why that can be so readily ignored by some on here. Beyond that what exactly are some of you expecting in player development terms after just two seasons when TFC have only had the opportunity to start working with players in their late rather than than their early to mid teens? Having Attakora Gyan and Rosenlund looking like they have a legitimate shot at carving out solid pro careers with a move to the senior roster in the next season or two seems to me to be about par for the course right now. There are some valid points here. It will take more than a year or two to pass judgement on TFC / MLS effect on player development in Canada. But if someone like Nana Attakora-Gyan can crack the line up this year as a starter, then it will be proof that TFC / MLS HAS had apositive effect on Cnd player development and the national teams. One of first tests will be the upcomming U17 WCQ in a couple weeks. The academy has been around for less than a year, therefore, the jury is still out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 I used this thread as a jumping off point for a post at The 24th Minute. http://24thminute.blogspot.com/2009/02/tfc-at-three-what-has-it-meant-to-game.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklefan Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Cheeta Directly, I'd say TFC has added a level of spirit and emotion to Canadian soccer on a scale hither to unseen. Hugely important that. It's an focused passion and energy that can grow on itself, but it still didn't get us to South Africa. I agree with you that TFC added a spirit and emotion to canadian football but I can't say that TFC could help or not our CMNT to qualify to South Africa. It's not a question about one professional club but several professional clubs and even if you add Vancouver and Montreal, I don't think it's enough to develop our local talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 quote:Originally posted by canucklefan I agree with you that TFC added a spirit and emotion to canadian football but I can't say that TFC could help or not our CMNT to qualify to South Africa. It's not a question about one professional club but several professional clubs and even if you add Vancouver and Montreal, I don't think it's enough to develop our local talent. South Africa was a lost cause as it relates to TFC. Brazil and 2018 will be the test. Yes, we need 3-4 more TFCs in a perfect world. The question is, are we closer to seeing that today than we were prior to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy I used this thread as a jumping off point for a post at The 24th Minute. http://24thminute.blogspot.com/2009/02/tfc-at-three-what-has-it-meant-to-game.html Funny about that bigsoccer thread you post the link to - about 95% of the posts in that thread came from regular posters here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Free kick There are some valid points here. It will take more than a year or two to pass judgement on TFC / MLS effect on player development in Canada. But if someone like Nana Attakora-Gyan can crack the line up this year as a starter, then it will be proof that TFC / MLS HAS had apositive effect on Cnd player development and the national teams. One of first tests will be the upcomming U17 WCQ in a couple weeks. For me, this is a big IF. If Attakora can crack the lineup this year and</u> is also put in a position whereby he can succeed, then I will be happier than I have been in the past with regards to TFC player development. However, if Attakora is thrown to the wolves (ie. playing a game here and there as injury cover and expected to work miracles) then I will be disappointed. Particularly if these performances are used to pigeon-hole his career. I know BBTB loves to bring out the Braz and Reda examples in order to defend TFC, however I believe that a player has to be put in a situation whereby it's possible for him to succeed in order to see if he is "good enough for the league". Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but Reda started in a back 3 with Brennan and Boyens for 3 games and then benched for pretty much the rest of the season when they went with a back 4. I find it hard for anyone to be successful in a situation like that. Velez got half a season in the same position and he was allowed the chance to improve. I hope Attakora gets a fair shake this season and I also hope he preforms when he gets the chance. Once we get a few more "TFC-developed" players playing more than spot duty, then we'll be able to pass judgement on how well TFC develops players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard Same old same old from certain posters who still don't seem to be able to come to terms with the fact that roster rules had to be adjusted after the affordable and available fringe CMNT players like Braz, Reda, Pozniak and Canizalez turned out not to be good enough for MLS. The fact that elite youth development in the GTA has been taken over by a properly run pro club and is no longer in the hands of the incompetent OSA is a major step forward, in my opinion, and it's not clear to me why that can be so readily ignored by some on here. Beyond that what exactly are some of you expecting in player development terms after just two seasons when TFC have only had the opportunity to start working with players in their late rather than than their early to mid teens? Having Attakora Gyan and Rosenlund looking like they have a legitimate shot at carving out solid pro careers with a move to the senior roster in the next season or two seems to me to be about par for the course right now. Your argument would be a lot stronger if TFC had replaced these in your opinion "not good enough for MLS" Canadian players with foreign players who were good enough for MLS. TFC decided that several Canadian players were not good enough for MLS despite not giving them much time to prove themselves. Then they replaced them with foreign players who had too much time to prove themselves yet still were "not good enough for MLS". Since El Hombre has mentioned Reda I will mention Pozniak. One can debate whether Pozniak is good enough to be a starter on a good MLS team and wouldn't necessarily disagree with those who say he isn't. He is, however, unquestionably good enough to be a starter on the terribly weak team fielded by TFC last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Funny about that bigsoccer thread you post the link to - about 95% of the posts in that thread came from regular posters here. OMG, never read that BS thread before....that was a fun read. Is DG still a mod on BS??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Funny about that bigsoccer thread you post the link to - about 95% of the posts in that thread came from regular posters here. It probably isn't the best "debate" on the issue from that time (a couple better ones are linked in the thread though), but the infamous RIP Canadian Soccer post speaks to the divide that was very real amongst the Vs then. Plus, it's amusing to look back on the day that we forced the BigSoccer supermods to venture into the Canadian boards (likely for the first and last time...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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