2009 Gold Cup

[Soju]

Friend had that wedding/honeymoon planned long in advance surely. We're going to begrudge a player because of something this important? It's the one thing he can't fck up with his wife, not a poker game with his frat mates. Canada wasn't left in the lurch as Gerba filled in perfectly well and I'm sure Friend was well aware of that. I am starting to wonder how he fits in with this team though. I'm a fan of Friend and have defended him a few times here but it's hard to deny the nice linking play and familiarity we've seen from DeRo/JDG/Atiba/Gerba as opposed to the borderline confusion when Friend's been our target man. I don't like his Jamaica and Brazil goals being dismissed as GK errors however, the keepers should've stayed home yes but give him some credit not many players and certainly not many in our team are going to score those and one was a game winner.

[superbrad]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Actually I think I have lost count as to the number of times that his boyfriend has bailed on Canada.

I was mentioning in another thread that I think his attitude sort of sucks. Every interview I've seen him in this year he comes off cocky and arrogant. What I'm not familiar with is whether or not this is unusual or new to this year. Is there something in his home or private life that is affecting the footy - or is he always like that?

[amacpher]

Personally I would never hold it against a player to skip a confederation championship as long as they continue to hold them every two years. If the Gold Cup was every 4 years like it ought to be, then yes, have a rip at any player who rejects the call-up. But every second year? Pfft... if I was a player I wouldn't participate either. I would rather line my pockets than Jack Warner's.

[hodgkiss]

my first draft starting XI... i would lik eto see most of these guys called. it's just a question as to where they will play and who will start. and although it's nice to win the gold cup, i would personally use this as a good start for redefining the next wc team... so starting some of these older guys might not be a good thing.

---------------lars---------------

jakovic---edgar---hainault---klukowski

peters----atiba----deguzman----de ro

--------friend------jackson---------

bench: radz, begovic, hastings, serioux, gerba, mckenna, ornoch, de jong, stalteri, imhof

how many can be selected to the team?

[jonovision]

quote:Originally posted by hodgkiss

my first draft starting XI... i would lik eto see most of these guys called. it's just a question as to where they will play and who will start. and although it's nice to win the gold cup, i would personally use this as a good start for redefining the next wc team... so starting some of these older guys might not be a good thing.

---------------lars---------------

jakovic---edgar---hainault---klukowski

peters----atiba----deguzman----de ro

--------friend------jackson---------

bench: radz, begovic, hastings, serioux, gerba, mckenna, ornoch, de jong, stalteri, imhof

how many can be selected to the team?

McKenna should start if he's involved at all. Radz probably should too.

[jpg75]

I'd go with:

---------------Lars---------------

Stalteri---Edgar---Serioux---Kluks

---------------Imhof--------------

Issey-----Hutch----DeGuzman---DeRo

--------------Friend--------------

Bench: Sutton, Wagenaar; Ledgerwood, Jakovic, McKenna, Hainault, De Jong; Bernier, Simpson, Johnson; Gerba, Hoilett(Jackson).

Five backup defenders and only 3 mids because Ledgerwood, Jakovic and De Jong can play midfield. Also, McKenna can play up front.

I would have invited Begovic and Radz, but they've pretty much said they're declining already.

Hoilett is my first choice, but he's an obvious longshot. I'd replace him with Jackson.

[Sam]

I've written a response to the Rob Friend debate

http://canadianstretty.blogspot.com/2009/06/rob-friend-debate.html

[Obinna]

I find it ironic that you argue the service is better at Borussia Mönchengladbach, and Kulkowski is the only Canadian capable of a decent cross, yet Stalteri is also in the squad and thus contributes to the superior service Friend recieves at Borussia Mönchengladbach

In all seriousness though, Kulkowski provides the best service (Brennen doesn't count because he is a fringe player at this point of his career). It's too bad Stalteri's on the wrong side of 30 because those two are deffinatly developing chemistry week in and week out. As for Friend, I like what he brings to the table, but with the emergance of Simeon Jackson and possibility (albiet small) of capping David Hoillet, I would rather see those two up top in a four four two (in the future). Right now though, Friend is the man followed by Gerba, but in two to three years I hope to see a pecking order of: Jackson, Hoillet, Hume(if he recovers), Friend and Gerba

[ChrisB]

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

Bench: Sutton, Wagenaar; Ledgerwood, Jakovic, McKenna, Hainault, De Jong; Bernier, Simpson, Johnson; Gerba, Hoilett(Jackson).

Hoilett is my first choice, but he's an obvious longshot. I'd replace him with Jackson.

I think that with the season he had (albeit in the 4th div) and scoring a goal in his first full cap, Jackson has passed Gerba on the depth chart. Go with the hot hand, as it were.

[BearcatSA]

For now, I'll limit my comments to two suggestions: based on what I saw from the last (disastrous) WCQ I would like to see the team have a stronger defensive ballwinner in front of the back four to disrupt counterattacks and allow DeGuzman to be a more box to box midfielder. I would also like to see Jakovic be one of the starting CBs. He might partner McKenna or Serioux, unless Hart decides to boldly push the TFC man up into that holding role, though I don't think that's going to happen.

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA

For now, I'll limit my comments to two suggestions: based on what I saw from the last (disastrous) WCQ I would like to see the team have a stronger defensive ballwinner in front of the back four to disrupt counterattacks and allow DeGuzman to be a more box to box midfielder. I would also like to see Jakovic be one of the starting CBs. He might partner McKenna or Serioux, unless Hart decides to boldly push the TFC man up into that holding role, though I don't think that's going to happen.

Actually, now that you mention Jakovic, I think having him as the defensive ballwinner you talk about would be perfect. He's very strong defensively but he's also very comfortable on the ball and would be good at moving it up field after winning it.

That would then leave more veteran players to cover the CB position like McKenna and Serioux.

[CanadianSwede]

I would really like to see the squad composed of players who haven't had prior chances to play with the MNT along with a few experienced players. I think we need to start thinking to 2014 or even the next Gold Cup which will have more pertinence since the winner of that will play in the 2013 confederation cup.

My preferred starting line up :

---------------Lars---------------

jakovic---McKenna---hainault---klukowski

peters----atiba----deguzman----Simpson

--------friend------jackson---------

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Obinna

I find it ironic that you argue the service is better at Borussia Mönchengladbach, and Kulkowski is the only Canadian capable of a decent cross, yet Stalteri is also in the squad and thus contributes to the superior service Friend recieves at Borussia Mönchengladbach

In all seriousness though, Kulkowski provides the best service (Brennen doesn't count because he is a fringe player at this point of his career). It's too bad Stalteri's on the wrong side of 30 because those two are deffinatly developing chemistry week in and week out. As for Friend, I like what he brings to the table, but with the emergance of Simeon Jackson and possibility (albiet small) of capping David Hoillet, I would rather see those two up top in a four four two (in the future). Right now though, Friend is the man followed by Gerba, but in two to three years I hope to see a pecking order of: Jackson, Hoillet, Hume(if he recovers), Friend and Gerba

YOu are both wrong in thinking that service is a cross from an outside back. We are not in the 1960s anymore, and I don't think you will find Friend scoring that kind of goal as his principal virtue. Though he may at times.

Service is getting the ball in a scoring position, and good service is getting into scoring position with a good chance at goal. Your mids or the accompanying forward are just as important.

But hey, that is what it is all about, isn't it? Coaching the team to move forward together and get the ball to where the strikers can do most damage. And right now I want to see how Hart works so that Friend can show his worth, let's at least give it a proper go.

Apart from that, the whole idea that a 4th tier English player is logically going to be ahead of a Bundesliga striker makes me a bit sick, this is the idiocy we Canada fans have to put up from on this board.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by leafdolfan

I've written a response to the Rob Friend debate

http://canadianstretty.blogspot.com/2009/06/rob-friend-debate.html

You're just repeating the same bogus arguments again and again in your 'response'. The fact that you rate the top goalscorer on a Bundesliga team as a one-dimensional wooden figure who is only good in the air shows your shoddy research. He scored only 2 of his 7 goals with his head and, in fact, was set up on his last league goal by a back by the name of Stalteri. I assume, because his name is not Klukowski, that you label as Stalteri as a lost cause with any formation featuring Friend. You can rewrite your bogus blog fifteen times; it won't make it any more compelling. And to those advocating Peters, Jackson et al ahead of Friend, all I can say is that I hope you are not picking lineups here in Canada for any local teams.

[CanadianSwede]

I think its bogus to think that just because a player plays well at club level that he is going to excel at the international level. Its not an absolute truth. I think you have the play the players that work well together and Friend in a 4-5-1 setup with Canada has been ineffective. I think 4-4-2 with Friend would work much better with a quick forward such as Jackson. Its foolish not to consider Friend in the Gold Cup squad but he has to be played with the right players if he is going to have an impact for the MNT.

[Vancouver Fan]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

You're just repeating the same bogus arguments again and again in your 'response'. The fact that you rate the top goalscorer on a Bundesliga team as a one-dimensional wooden figure who is only good in the air shows your shoddy research. He scored only 2 of his 7 goals with his head and, in fact, was set up on his last league goal by a back by the name of Stalteri. I assume, because his name is not Klukowski, that you label as Stalteri as a lost cause with any formation featuring Friend. You can rewrite your bogus blog fifteen times; it won't make it any more compelling. And to those advocating Peters, Jackson et al ahead of Friend, all I can say is that I hope you are not picking lineups here in Canada for any local teams.

That response sounds almost angry. leafdolfan is expressing his view based on what he's seen over that past few CMNT games.It is well thought out and well presented. It could even work. Who's to say. My lineup would include Friend but who cares. There have been way worse lineup decisions made by way more qualified managers. It's a fan forum there are going to be hundreds of views presented. There is no need to jump on anyone for something like this.

[Obinna]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Apart from that, the whole idea that a 4th tier English player is logically going to be ahead of a Bundesliga striker makes me a bit sick, this is the idiocy we Canada fans have to put up from on this board.

Jeffery, for the record I rate Friend highley and never suggested he was behind Jackson in the pecking order. I can only assume leafdolfan is the one displaying "idiocy"? Actually, two or three years down the road he could be behind Jackson in the pecking order. Jackson could be playing in the CCC and Friend could be in Bundesliga 2. It is not like Friend has been a career Bundesliga player. Right now though, Friend is clearly top of the list as far as strikers are concerned. I support a Friend-Jackson partnership at the gold cup.

[Obinna]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

YOu are both wrong in thinking that service is a cross from an outside back. We are not in the 1960s anymore, and I don't think you will find Friend scoring that kind of goal as his principal virtue. Though he may at times.

Sorry I wasn't being technical with my football terminology Jeffery lol. I (like most people) knew that leafdolfan was saying Kulkowski delivers the best CROSSES! Friends only goals for the national team have been headers from crosses, but I am hoping he scores a few with his feet, he is quite capable.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by El Hombre

Actually, now that you mention Jakovic, I think having him as the defensive ballwinner you talk about would be perfect. He's very strong defensively but he's also very comfortable on the ball and would be good at moving it up field after winning it.

That would then leave more veteran players to cover the CB position like McKenna and Serioux.

I'm okay with that idea, whoever works out best.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

For your information, boys, Jackson is not even that highly rated by his own fans at Gillingham. The overwhelming opinion from those who see him every week is that he does not do much, is fairly discreet, but scores. Sure, they like that. But he is not considered a top player by them or even the best player on the squad, despite the goals. And there is a major contingent who do not seem convinced he can do it for them in League One.

But I'll concede, fair enough that where you play does not ensure you are better for the national team. Now, I dare anyone here to show one single national team that plays a 4th tier striker ahead of a 1st tier striker because the fans weren't happy with the latter's 5-6 games with the national team that just happened to fail outright all around and totally embarrassingly with or without him.

It is not complicated: Mitchell screwed up, he did not coach the team right. Friend is where he is for a reason, not by caprice, and that is a week in week out reality. So get a damn coach who knows how to coach the team and lets see him get the most from the most. Let's get juice from the big fat juicy orange first, then go for the little ones. Let's get the big juice from the big oranges first.

[VPjr]

Guys....whether you fancy Friend or not is irrelevant. He will NOT be at GC. He's recovering from injury and surgeries and will not be available.

Gerba has an injury problem as well and is not likely going to be fit to play (plus, he hasn't played in months and is likely not in shape to make a big contribution).

This is going to be a difficult tournament for Hart to build his team for. The month of July is a stupid time for this tournnament, especially in the year before the WC, when every European league will push up its pre-season training by a couple of weeks because the leagues are going to start a bit earlier than normal. This scheduling issue is especially impactful for anyone playing in England or Germany.

Knowing what I've just told you (and you can take that info to the bank), you will now need to rethink your prefered starting XI.

When is Jack Warner going to learn that this confederation only needs a GC every 4 years.

[Lord Bob]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

When is Jack Warner going to learn that this confederation only needs a GC every 4 years.

When he can get as much as much money by running it every four years as he does now by running it every two.

[JamboAl]

I can't see the Gold Cup squad being full of experienced European players. There's very little upside to participating; I hope I'm wrong. I agree with Dino, July is stupid for the Gold Cup.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

It is not complicated: Mitchell screwed up, he did not coach the team right. Friend is where he is for a reason, not by caprice, and that is a week in week out reality. So get a damn coach who knows how to coach the team and lets see him get the most from the most. Let's get juice from the big fat juicy orange first, then go for the little ones. Let's get the big juice from the big oranges first.

Are you shilling for the Spanish citrus industry?

Seriously, I agree with what you are saying about the direction from the top. Though some may say this is more of an apples to "oranges" comparison (you've got me doing it now, damn you!), you can look at how the WCQ campaigns have gone with England and Ireland, relying on the same players who failed badly for the Euro qualification last time around yet getting better managing so far from Capello and Trappatoni, respectively.

[Obinna]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

For your information, boys, Jackson is not even that highly rated by his own fans at Gillingham. The overwhelming opinion from those who see him every week is that he does not do much, is fairly discreet, but scores. Sure, they like that. But he is not considered a top player by them or even the best player on the squad, despite the goals. And there is a major contingent who do not seem convinced he can do it for them in League One.

I don't care how Gillingham fans rate him. Actions speak louder than words and 21 goals are 21 goals. It doesn't matter how you spin it that is impressive. Why should I think he couldn't be successful in League One? Because Gillingham fans think he is discreet and doesn't do much, even though he still scores? Jeffery obviously that is the description of a striker who can finish his opportunities. Now, he will likley get less chances because he is moving up a level, but if he is a good finisher he will still probably score 10 to 15 goals in League One.

Actually, I just done a bit of homework and came accross this, straight from his coaches mouth after Gillingham's playoff win:

"Simeon didn't have his best of games," said Stimson, "but when the opportunity came up he was in the right place at the right time. The kid's a natural goalscorer, a big game player, and he certainly knows where the goal is."

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/News/LeagueTwoNewsDetail/0,,10794~1665792,00.html

So there you have it, Simeon Jackson is more of a finisher than anything. That is probably why Gillingham fans don't rate him as high as they probably should. If he only scored 12 goals but was a ronaldo type player I bet he would be more highly rated by Gillinghgam supporters. Therefore Jeffery, I wouldn't look too much into their opinons. I would rather put more stock into what his coach thinks, or better yet actually watch him for myself and formulate my own opinon.