BrennanFan Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I know that the Gold Cup is important, but WC2014 should be the goal here. I wouldn't mind seeing what the next generation can do. ---------Ornoch--Jackson Simpson------Johnson------Nakajima -------------Jakovic deJong--Hainault--Edgar--Ledgerwood -------------Begovic F: Gala M: Peters, Hemming, Rosenlund D: Nana, KOA G: Wagenaar, Stillo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan I know that the Gold Cup is important, but WC2014 should be the goal here. I wouldn't mind seeing what the next generation can do. ---------Ornoch--Jackson Simpson------Johnson------Nakajima -------------Jakovic deJong--Hainault--Edgar--Ledgerwood -------------Begovic F: Gala M: Peters, Hemming, Rosenlund D: Nana, KOA G: Wagenaar, Stillo I agree - good lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. That can mean only one thing: call up the best Canadian player for each position, the second best for each position, and a couple more if necessary to make sure the squad is as strong as possible. And try to win the damn thing. At least it is realistic, we did it once and came close other times. To hell with putting a bunch of kids in there, put up your best roster and choose those most in form, and go for a win every match. Totally agree, Jeffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 My call up as of today. Lars or Sutton, a few others waiting in the wings. Stalteri-McKenna and either Hastings or Hainault or Edgar-Klukowski backed by Ledgerwood Hutchinson-De Guzman-Imhof-De Ro, plus subs Serioux-Grande-Issey Friend-Radzinski with Gerba-Jackson on the bench. Fun team. I wish we had the presence of a player like Humey bless him, and a sharper centre back to go with McKenna. Apart from that feel pretty good about his squad. With the heavyweights thinking about the HEX we may find the competition more accessible. No reason with a fine midfield like that we should not have the ball, create chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. Could we get a few things clear? Building for the future does not exist on the pitch unless the present is a write off. Our next official competition is the Gold Cup and it is not a write off. We are qualified and start on a level ground as the rest. That can mean only one thing: call up the best Canadian player for each position, the second best for each position, and a couple more if necessary to make sure the squad is as strong as possible. And try to win the damn thing. At least it is realistic, we did it once and came close other times. To hell with putting a bunch of kids in there, put up your best roster and choose those most in form, and go for a win every match. If we can get a draw and a tie from the first three, and win the next three, we are winners. And we are not going to do that with future prospects. Agreed, although I am curious as to which guys will actually be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratworst Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. No reason with a fine midfield like that we should not have the ball, create chances. Aside from complete coaching incompetence... It still seems so harsh that we weren't able to keep our form we had under Hart, we dominated the midfield so effectively last Gold Cup, and then we just completely lost it as soon as Hart was gone. I really hope we can get that nice, crisp passing, possession game back that made us so effective... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Some of you need to realize that GC soccer is different from WCQ soccer. In the GC, no teams (except maybe the USA) put pressure on our midfield, during WCQ it was the opposite. IMO, our failure wasn't so much for JDG average performance but because the other midfielders didn't step up when JDG was a marked man. I think Hart has been given too much credit for the GC success. We still loss to Guadeloupe and he made some of the same coaching mistake than Mitchell did at some point (no change of tactic when down against Guadeloupe or playing Hume as a target man). He also has never qualify a team for a U-17 WC in 3 attempts. I'm pretty sure he's not a bad coach, but there's a bit of an overreaction in his favour IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 quote:Originally posted by loyola Some of you need to realize that GC soccer is different from WCQ soccer. In the GC, no teams (except maybe the USA) put pressure on our midfield, during WCQ it was the opposite. IMO, our failure wasn't so much for JDG average performance but because the other midfielders didn't step up when JDG was a marked man. I think Hart has been given too much credit for the GC success. We still loss to Guadeloupe and he made some of the same coaching mistake than Mitchell did at some point (no change of tactic when down against Guadeloupe or playing Hume as a target man). He also has never qualify a team for a U-17 WC in 3 attempts. I'm pretty sure he's not a bad coach, but there's a bit of an overreaction in his favour IMO. I tend to agree with your comments, loyola. But even if it was the GC, at least Hart has a recent blueprint of success with many of these current players and perhaps his presence as the sole man in charge may have helped the team get its mojo back following the Honduras match in Montreal, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA I tend to agree with your comments, loyola. But even if it was the GC, at least Hart has a recent blueprint of success with many of these current players and perhaps his presence as the sole man in charge may have helped the team get its mojo back following the Honduras match in Montreal, I don't know. It's a fair point but my concern more about the general perception of Hart on this board. People are using Mitchell U-20 record to say he's a bad coach but no one is mentionning Hart poor record with the U-17 (to be fair, I don't think the U-20 and U-17 performances means much). One of the big difference between GC and WCQ is in the GC you can get some kind of momentum going for you since you play every 3-4 days. Anyways, I would prefer to see Hart instead of Mitchell at the moment, I just don't think he's the great coach most people think he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 ^No argument from me. I'll be happy to be proven wrong on this one point but I still believe we're going to see a fair number of no-shows (for whatever reasons) for this GC while DM remains in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazzer Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan I know that the Gold Cup is important, but WC2014 should be the goal here. I wouldn't mind seeing what the next generation can do. ---------Ornoch--Jackson Simpson------Johnson------Nakajima -------------Jakovic deJong--Hainault--Edgar--Ledgerwood -------------Begovic F: Gala M: Peters, Hemming, Rosenlund D: Nana, KOA G: Wagenaar, Stillo Why not wait until the 2011 Gold Cup to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan I know that the Gold Cup is important, but WC2014 should be the goal here. I wouldn't mind seeing what the next generation can do. ---------Ornoch--Jackson Simpson------Johnson------Nakajima -------------Jakovic deJong--Hainault--Edgar--Ledgerwood -------------Begovic F: Gala M: Peters, Hemming, Rosenlund D: Nana, KOA G: Wagenaar, Stillo Ornoch starting? He doesn't start for Esbjerg.... And if you are playing a FUTURE lineup.... where are De Guzman, Klukowski, Nsaliwa, Hutchinson, Hume...? All those players will be fine for next cycle aged 31, 31, 30, 29 and 28 for the start of next cycle. Where this past cycle Brennan, Radzinski, Stalteri and Hastings for example were 31, 34, 30 and 31 respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 quote:Originally posted by loyola It's a fair point but my concern more about the general perception of Hart on this board. People are using Mitchell U-20 record to say he's a bad coach but no one is mentionning Hart poor record with the U-17 (to be fair, I don't think the U-20 and U-17 performances means much). One of the big difference between GC and WCQ is in the GC you can get some kind of momentum going for you since you play every 3-4 days. Anyways, I would prefer to see Hart instead of Mitchell at the moment, I just don't think he's the great coach most people think he is. There were a few differences, you are right. In Gold Cup we got behind and came back, or had a capacity to react. Very unusual for Canada. In WCQ we went ahead both first games and could not hold on. We really had everything going for us those two matches and it fell apart, while in the Gold Cup we were wilder, the games were more open, but the play was more exciting. Maybe you are right about us not being pressured so much in the middle. Now, are we allowed to study our opponents too and hit them where it hurts, or are they only allowed to do it to us? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. There were a few differences, you are right. In Gold Cup we got behind and came back, or had a capacity to react. Very unusual for Canada. In WCQ we went ahead both first games and could not hold on. We really had everything going for us those two matches and it fell apart, while in the Gold Cup we were wilder, the games were more open, but the play was more exciting. Maybe you are right about us not being pressured so much in the middle. Now, are we allowed to study our opponents too and hit them where it hurts, or are they only allowed to do it to us? Just curious. The quaterfinal versus Guatemala is the best example of "no pressure in the middle". We got the 3-0 win, which was nice, but that game was very different from what we've seen in our group in WCQ. IMO, one of the thing that cost us is we are a predictable side and we were easy to neutralize. I have the impression that Jamaica and Honduras were more unpredictable, specially Honduras with the change of tempo in their game, tough team to play against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 quote:Originally posted by loyola The quaterfinal versus Guatemala is the best example of "no pressure in the middle". We got the 3-0 win, which was nice, but that game was very different from what we've seen in our group in WCQ. IMO, one of the thing that cost us is we are a predictable side and we were easy to neutralize. I have the impression that Jamaica and Honduras were more unpredictable, specially Honduras with the change of tempo in their game, tough team to play against. Whereas the USA semi and the SA friendly showed the best examples of midfield pressure which we needed to prepare for during the WCQ, especially in away ties. In the former match, not only Nash was badly exposed for pace but also Hutchinson had an ineffective first half in dallying with the ball and not releasing passes soon enough nor closing down opponents quickly (i.e. Dempsey's run and pass to Beasley leading to the penalty). In the SA match, our opponents did a strong job of closing down our midfield service resulting in our defenders having to hit long balls to our lone striker Hume. I think we are on the same wavelength here. I particularly like your point about the predictability of our side, but in the end we were faced with a known tactical challenge and the coaching and playing staff weren't able to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenfield Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 I can see both sides of choosing a young or experienced lineup for this GC, but I think we need to find some middle ground. I'd like to see the more experienced of the young guys get slotted into the lineup, or at least split the time with those who will not be around next cycle. Edgar should play a fair bit, Will Johnson, players who will have a leadership role in the future; they need to learn from the veterans now while they can all contribute. I don't want to see the older players who will be gone or hanging on in the next WCQ cycle starting every match. Obviously we need to win the GC to help our FIFA position, but I don't want to do that at the complete expense of those who will make up the new core of team in 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 The reason I want to see our best side, bar none: the real rivals for the Cup will be resting players, inevitably. They have other things on their mind, like WC qualifying. Meaning it is a good moment to step in and go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. The reason I want to see our best side, bar none: the real rivals for the Cup will be resting players, inevitably. They have other things on their mind, like WC qualifying. Meaning it is a good moment to step in and go for it. Just imagine if we win it all with Mitchell as a coach....can you say "contract extension"? On a personnal level I think te 2009 GC is the perfect time to give some experience to some of our young players but have them play with some more experience guys as well. Don't just bring an U-23 team, it won't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by loyola Just imagine if we win it all with Mitchell as a coach....can you say "contract extension"? On a personnal level I think te 2009 GC is the perfect time to give some experience to some of our young players but have them play with some more experienced guys as well. Don't just bring an U-23 team, it won't help. The problem for me is that, potentially, those "more experienced guys" who will make themselves available for this tournament are the ones I don't rate very highly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA The problem for me is that, potentially, those "more experienced guys" who will make themselves available for this tournament are the ones I don't rate very highly. To me, it's more a question of the positive influence those guys can have on the younger. I may be wrong but I don't see Atiba, DeRo or JDG as positive leaders. But if Stalteri, Radz, Kluka and a few others show up, it could be positive for the younger players. I don't really care about the GC results to be honest. Don't get me wrong, I hope the players take this tournament seriously but in the end getting valuable experience for WCQ is more important than getting instant results in a GC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by loyola To me, it's more a question of the positive influence those guys can have on the younger. I may be wrong but I don't see Atiba, DeRo or JDG as positive leaders. But if Stalteri, Radz, Kluka and a few others show up, it could be positive for the younger players. Here's what I wouldn't mind seeing as possibilities: McKenna being in the team, starting, and playing alongside a younger CB prospect (possibly Edgar, but also Hainault, I don't know), then pushing Serioux into the holding mid/destroyer role with Ledgerwood being his understudy (and Ledgerwood and Edgar being Stalteri's depth at RB). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I did my first Gold Cup preview today looking at which keepers Canada should send http://canadianstretty.blogspot.com/2009/02/canadas-2009-gold-cup-countdown.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 quote:Originally posted by leafdolfan I did my first Gold Cup preview today looking at which keepers Canada should send http://canadianstretty.blogspot.com/2009/02/canadas-2009-gold-cup-countdown.html I think you missed someone, and if Mitchell is still coach I am pretty sure you missed someone with good chances to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. I think you missed someone, and if Mitchell is still coach I am pretty sure you missed someone with good chances to be there. elaborate - I mentioned Lars, Pat and Greg. Plus the u-20, and u-23 guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 quote:Originally posted by leafdolfan I did my first Gold Cup preview today looking at which keepers Canada should send http://canadianstretty.blogspot.com/2009/02/canadas-2009-gold-cup-countdown.html It's a good read, looking forward to read about the other players. Just to correct you, Asmir was the starter at Yeovil because it was in the loan deal that he should start if healthy. Yeovil fans seems divided on the question of which one is better but one thing is certain is that Josh has better stats for what it's worth: Begovic played in 14 League games (3W, 6D, 5L), allowed 22 goals, 3 clean sheets, 1.57 goal against per game. Wagenaar played in 15 League games (6W, 3D, 6L), allowed 16 goals, 5 clean sheets, 1.07 goal against per game. If Asmir doesn't play game suntil the end of the season and Josh remains healthy I would favor Josh over Asmir base on form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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