ag futbol Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Great to know that if you play for Dale Mitchell he has no problem throwing you under the bus, but his mirror seems to be broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 We should also note there's a difference between a WC and WCQ. With the U-20's we could live with the fact that we didn't have the talent, we were facing countries from Europe, Africa and South America who are historicaly much better than us. In WCQ, we are facing CONCACAF oppositions, and except for Mexico and USA we should be at least able to compete with the like of Jamaica and Honduras. That's where I take issue with his comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA I'm thinking you meant beat them in Edmonton. Yes, the match in Chiapas was going to be a tough one because the Mexicans were "on," but some top notch saves kept the game at only 1-0 at the half. To me, the campaign hinged on that second half in Montreal. Down 2-1, we absolutely needed that point but I felt DM got the tactics wrong. Yes you are right, I meant Edmonton. Thanks for pointing that out, I have changed my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I think we tend to underestimate our opposition at times, simply because they tend not to have as many players playing in Europe as we do...but honestly, I'd give the nod to Palacios, Suazo, Guevara over DeGuzman, Friend, DeRosario. Add to that Figueroa (Starting at Wigan), De Leon (Serie A, not sure about playing time) and a few guys playing in Mexico and I start to wonder if our top 11 is in fact comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Agreed with the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denis Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Gordon I think we tend to underestimate our opposition at times, simply because they tend not to have as many players playing in Europe as we do...but honestly, I'd give the nod to Palacios, Suazo, Guevara over DeGuzman, Friend, DeRosario. Add to that Figueroa (Starting at Wigan), De Leon (Serie A, not sure about playing time) and a few guys playing in Mexico and I start to wonder if our top 11 is in fact comparable. You would honestly rate Guevara above DeGuzman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly Yes you are right, I meant Edmonton. Thanks for pointing that out, I have changed my post. No sweat. Originally, I just wasn't quite clear on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by denis You would honestly rate Guevara above DeGuzman? No, I would rate the Honduran top 3 as a package over the Canadian top 3. And anyone can quibble about who is in the top 3, but dropping Friend and De Rosario for, say, Radzinski and Klukowski doesn't change the point. I'd say DeGuzman individually was better than Guevara. This is not to detract from Julian, who is a great player by CONCACAF standards, definitely one of the top 3 or 4 players in the region Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Gordon I think we tend to underestimate our opposition at times, simply because they tend not to have as many players playing in Europe as we do...but honestly, I'd give the nod to Palacios, Suazo, Guevara over DeGuzman, Friend, DeRosario. Add to that Figueroa (Starting at Wigan), De Leon (Serie A, not sure about playing time) and a few guys playing in Mexico and I start to wonder if our top 11 is in fact comparable. I agree that Honduras has a very talented team, perhaps even stronger than ours but not by too terribly much. What bothers me is that Mitchell is insinuating that the talent level between us and them is insurmountable in any and all situations. By him saying that "we weren't good enough", he is basically saying that our record of 2pts in qualifying is accurate and deserved. On any given day, any team can beat another team through various methods (tactics, skill, motivation, a little bit of luck etc.) no matter the disparity in talent. Yes, the players did not perform to expectations. However, neither did the tactics employed. I'm not saying that we were guaranteed a spot in Hex, but more that we are a helluva lot better than 2 pts in 6 games and everyone has to shoulder the blame for that, especially the guy in charge of the damn team. This is the same thing as the U20s. Yes, we were in a very tough group and coming out of that would've been quite the feat. However, putting on an embarrassing display and not even scoring a single goal? We are definitely better than that. You cannot lay all of the blame at the kids' feet. (note: I have not actually listened to the podcast yet, however I've read enough Mitch interviews to guess how things went.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by El Hombre I agree that Honduras has a very talented team, perhaps even stronger than ours but not by too terribly much. What bothers me is that Mitchell is insinuating that the talent level between us and them is insurmountable in any and all situations. By him saying that "we weren't good enough", he is basically saying that our record of 2pts in qualifying is accurate and deserved. On any given day, any team can beat another team through various methods (tactics, skill, motivation, a little bit of luck etc.) no matter the disparity in talent. Yes, the players did not perform to expectations. However, neither did the tactics employed. I'm not saying that we were guaranteed a spot in Hex, but more that we are a helluva lot better than 2 pts in 6 games and everyone has to shoulder the blame for that, especially the guy in charge of the damn team. This is the same thing as the U20s. Yes, we were in a very tough group and coming out of that would've been quite the feat. However, putting on an embarrassing display and not even scoring a single goal? We are definitely better than that. You cannot lay all of the blame at the kids' feet. (note: I have not actually listened to the podcast yet, however I've read enough Mitch interviews to guess how things went.) I agree with pretty much everything you said except for the part about the U-20's and the absence of a single goal. We had a lot of scoring chances against Congo and the players didn't convert and we had some against Austria. At some point, it's the coaching staff responsability to ensure the team is able to create scoring chances but in the end the players have to convert. If one goalscorer was benched or wasn't selected I would be critical of Mitchell but this doesn't seem to be the case for 2007. Anyways, Mitchell should be ashame of answering the questions the way he did. His explanations for the 2010 WCQ debacle are pretty poor...but what would be a good explanation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by El Hombre I agree that Honduras has a very talented team, perhaps even stronger than ours but not by too terribly much. What bothers me is that Mitchell is insinuating that the talent level between us and them is insurmountable in any and all situations. By him saying that "we weren't good enough", he is basically saying that our record of 2pts in qualifying is accurate and deserved. On any given day, any team can beat another team through various methods (tactics, skill, motivation, a little bit of luck etc.) no matter the disparity in talent. Yes, the players did not perform to expectations. However, neither did the tactics employed. I'm not saying that we were guaranteed a spot in Hex, but more that we are a helluva lot better than 2 pts in 6 games and everyone has to shoulder the blame for that, especially the guy in charge of the damn team. I agree 100%. I was not trying to absolve Mitchell of his blame simply pointing out that Honduras are not slouches who should naturally fall by the wayside if we are on our game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Gordon I agree 100%. I was not trying to absolve Mitchell of his blame simply pointing out that Honduras are not slouches who should naturally fall by the wayside if we are on our game. Yes, but noone is saying that they are slouches. However, Mitchell is either claiming they are some ueber-team that we couldn't beat no matter who the coach is or that we are a team of slouches. I think our teams are very comparable talent wise although one can argue here and there that one player is superior to another. We have to be completely on our game to beat them but they should have to be completely on their game to beat us. Watching both games I can say I think they played up to their full potential while the players we had on the field did not play as well as they are capable of. Yes if we play below our potential we will never beat Honduras unless they also comply and play equally as poorly. However, it was Mitchell's job to get us to play up to our ability and he failed. It is entirely possible that we could play two excellent games against Mexico and still lose both of them. Against Honduras, anything other than a record of two ties or one win and one loss has to be seen as an abject failure and unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly Yes, but noone is saying that they are slouches. However, Mitchell is either claiming they are some ueber-team that we couldn't beat no matter who the coach is or that we are a team of slouches. I think our teams are very comparable talent wise although one can argue here and there that one player is superior to another. We have to be completely on our game to beat them but they should have to be completely on their game to beat us. Watching both games I can say I think they played up to their full potential while the players we had on the field did not play as well as they are capable of. Yes if we play below our potential we will never beat Honduras unless they also comply and play equally as poorly. However, it was Mitchell's job to get us to play up to our ability and he failed. It is entirely possible that we could play two excellent games against Mexico and still lose both of them. Against Honduras, anything other than a record of two ties or one win and one loss has to be seen as an abject failure and unacceptable. As far as I'm concerned this group should have been a dogfight to the finish, regardless of whether or not we moved on to the Hex. Two ties out of six matches translates in managers getting the sack virtually anywhere else in international soccer. Not here, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Keeper Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by dsqpr It's true that Honduras and Mexico were both better teams than us. They were better teams because of better preparation, better tactics and better coaching. Man for man, they were not better. And as for the Guevera vs. De Guz or De Ro debate -- COME ON, GUYS! De Guz plays at the highest level in Spain. Guevara plays in MLS. 'Nuff said about those two. De Ro has been the MVP for all of MLS, while Guevara is an average player for one of the worst teams. 'Nuff said there too. No, man for man we were better but as a team we were not. Disappointing, because man for man this really is the best group of players that I can remember. Get your fact straight "nuff said"! First, there's no debate between JDG and Guevara, the debate is between Honduras top 3 and Canada top 3. Second, DeRo has never been MLS MVP.... Third, Guevara was MLS MVP in 2004 or 2005. Fourth, they will be playing in the same team next year. Fifth, DeRo has historicaly played poorly for the MNT while Guevara usually upgrades is level of play for Honduras. Now, an opinion, I think Honduras had better players on a player to player basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 There is no way DeRo should be considered as one of our top players. He has been a top player in the MLS but has never shown the ability to perform well when playing at a higher level than MLS. There have been the occassional flashes of brilliance but most of his national team career has been a big disappointment. In pretty much every game he played this WCQ he was one of our worst players on the pitch. Most of the time I wasn't even aware he was playing, he was that invisible. If we are going to compare top 3, DeRo is not even near one of our players who should be mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Joe Keeper I have not yet heard the actual interview bearcat. Mabey I filled in the blanks too fast. However I dont think any of us have come to expect any kind of accountability or reasonable answer to come out of Mitchell's mouth. Sadly, I too don't expect him to give any kind of answers that admit his share of responsibility because he knows he's got this gig for awhile. I get the feeling that even if we play absolutely atrociously in GC 09, he'll still be there because he'll have his default excuse that we will be playing a lot of new caps and other inexperienced players, or whatever. On the other side of the coin, if we manage to get some results (or close losses, for that matter), the CSA suits will point towards the "progress" he'll have made. Sorry for my cynicism. I'm not seeing that half full glass at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 David Suazo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 quote:Originally posted by SthMelbRed Dale Mitchell answers questions on why he hasn't quit and about his future in the job. He also talks about his relationship with some national team players and about some young players who may be brought in in the very near future. For those who have had the chance to listen, can you post his answers to these questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 ^I've finally had a chance to listen to the podcast. About not resigning, DM said he's never quit anything before and he's not about to start now. He wants to fulfill the contract that he signed. Beyond that, it's up to the CSA if they want to make a change. He basically brushed aside the issue between himself and the players, something along the lines of 'opinions are like assholes....' He singled out Marcel De Jong and Wil Johnson for increased roles for the upcoming year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leekoo Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 here is the i have a contract interview ... starts at the 13 minute mark ... http://www.team1040.ca/podcast/soccer_show/Full_Time_Vancouvers_Soccer_Show_Jan_18~.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Denis didn't understand Gordon's point about the top 3 players (which Gordon explained a few posts later), so there's no debate between Guevara and JDG. Being Man of the Match twice is a lot different than winning an MVP award for a whole season. But I see you corrected yourself on that one. I wrote about Guevara winning an MVP award because you said that DeRo won it, which you admitted was incorrect. I didn't put words in your mouth, just add some perspective to that Guevara vs DeRo "debate". You make it sound like it's obvious that DeRo is better than Guevara which is far from the reality. DeRo had a poor year with Houston while Guevara was a bit better for TFC while not playing up to his standards. I've watched enough of DeRo over the years to tell you that he plays one good game for Canada and then have 3-4 poor games, he's far from a consistent performer at the International level (something Guevara is from the few times I've seen him play for his country, and Hondurans fans would agree with that). Again, when you finished your sentence with "nuff said", it's tough to have an intelligent discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Give credit to Tyler Green and Mike Martignago for asking the tough questions so seldom asked in Canadian soccer journalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSamurai Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Thanks! Once again posted on the RPB board... maybe we can storm the mansion now. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 ^While I readily admit that I have some bias, being friends with the hosts of the show, but I really do find that their interviewing skills are exceptional. They managed to ask the tough questions and at the same time keeping Dale Mitchell onside and the conversation very warm. If you listen to some of the other interviews on the show, you'll find that they consistently do so. I also think they have and will continue to get some of the best guests you'll find on any football related program in Canada. I hope you all continue to listen, as football definitely needs a stronger media presence in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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