2018, 2022 Bidding Starts

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Anyone who thinks such dumb criteria are really quantified by anyone is out to lunch. FIFA only is concerned with voting blocks, vote buying, power trading, and having a place that won't let them totally down in terms of sponsors, income. Nothing more.

I also think they will not repeat a host nation, there is no reason to.

Russia is perfect regardless of human rights and race and economic corruption, because it is a big nation, with the money, never had a World Cup, can buy FIFAs good will (as they bought read bribed their way to the World Athletics Championship), enough cities and stadiums, and is a decent footballing nation. No use repeating when there is more influence to be peddled elsewhere.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Because it is a reasonable story and has De Guzman quotes, a piece on the subject of racism. My personal opinion is that it does exist, is bad, and has to improve, and that the authorities do not do enough (given I am personal friends with the Deputy Minister for Sport in Spain, should maybe I should tell him some day).

That said, my experience is that racism is in fact way worse in the day to day in countries like France, Germany or England, where I have seen atrocious displays of xenophobia in everyday situations that I have never encountered in Spain:

Racism troubles Madrid’s Olympic-World Cup bids

By PAUL LOGOTHETIS, AP Sports Writer

Feb 6 2009

(AP)—Spain is a serious contender to host the 2016 Olympics and 2018 World Cup, but a failure to clamp down on fans’ racist and extremist behavior could end up compromising both bids.

Buoyed by Rafael Nadal’s Grand Slam tennis wins, the national soccer team’s European Championship triumph and Alberto Contador’s sweep of cycling’s three premier events, Spain is in a golden age of sports.

It would seem the perfect time to land the two biggest sporting spectacles on earth.

But scenes of offensive fan behavior still tarnish the country’s image, an issue that came to the fore when spectators at the Santiago Bernabeu stadium greeted England’s black soccer players with monkey chants during an international exhibition game in 2004.

And the problem extends to sports such as Formula One, where fans don’t known when to differentiate between competitive spirit and racism.

“In Spain, there is a profound problem and the fight against racism hasn’t been taken seriously. The problem is a lack of education and sensibility when it comes to tackling racism,” Esteban Ibarra, head of the Movement Against Intolerance, told The Associated Press.

“The public would react positively to a campaign, but there is a real lack of political push in this fight.”

Spain’s exhibition game against England on Wednesday—the teams’ first meeting since the events in the Spanish capital in November 2004—comes at a crucial time.

It’s a day before Madrid submits its documents to the International Olympic Committee outlining its bid plans for the 2016 Games, and a little over a week after Spain confirmed its joint bid with Portugal for the 2018 World Cup.

“It’s going to be a great test to see if we’ve overcome that episode or if we’re just continuing on with this problem,” said Ibarra, who has been charting racial incidents for 20 years.

Monkey chants still rain down on players across the country, with Barcelona striker Samuel Eto’o of Cameroon nearly quitting a game at Zaragoza in February 2006 because of the abuse.

“When I first experienced it, I didn’t even hear it. It was reporters that brought it to my attention,” said Julian De Guzman, a Canadian of Filipino-Jamaican heritage who plays for Deportivo La Coruna. “Then I was watching (a replay of) the game and I was like ‘Wow.’ It was pretty surprising and kind of disappointing.

“The fines are never enough. Their just a slap of the hand and they’re back at it again. It doesn’t really do anything.”

Last month, Real Madrid was fined 3,000 euros ($3,900) after some fans displayed fascist banners, made gestures and chanted slogans with reference to the death of their opponents and the gas chamber.

The Spanish soccer federation said fines correspond to current laws, but preferred not to discuss the issue at length.

“In Spain, we take all preventive measures possible to fight racism,” spokesman Jorge Carretero said. “I don’t see any type of problem with racism in Spanish football. The same problems exist in England, in Germany, in France, and elsewhere.”

Spain’s bid with Portugal for the 2018 World Cup is up against competition from England, the United States, Russia, Japan, Australia and Netherlands-Belgium, among others. The host will be selected by FIFA in December 2010.

“There is no place in football for corruption and racism,” FIFA said in a statement sent to the AP. “Football, given its global reach, power and influence has a duty to act in a responsible and progressive manner.”

Spanish Olympic Committee president Alejandro Blanco doesn’t believe recent events will bear any influence on Madrid’s chances of hosting the 2016 Games, with Tokyo, Chicago and Rio de Janeiro also in the race. The IOC will choose the host city on Oct. 2.

“These things can happen in any stadium in any country in the world, from Brazil to Italy to anywhere,” Blanco said. “It’s too easy to just say that Spain is a racist country, when it is not.”

The Spanish government passed a law against racism in sport in July 2007 in a bid to clamp down on the behavior, but experts say that it is not being used. Clubs can be fined up to $842,000 and deducted points, places and even relegated for serious incidents, but it’s up to the league to enforce such punishments.

Yet extremist supporters, usually with far-right leanings and known as “ultras,” are still allowed into the stadiums. They have infiltrated all levels of Spanish soccer—from local leagues to the topflight game—and have “a fundamental influence in promoting xenophobia in society,” Ibarra said.

“I think football fans have a clearer idea that they must turn their backs on the ultras. There is a rejection, but the ultra groups continue to be aided, receiving favorable attention from the clubs. The clubs need to stop supporting these groups.”

Last month, several players from a regional third-division team made up of Barcelona ultras were accused of assaulting members of an opposing team comprised solely of foreigners, mostly from South America, with several sent to the hospital with injuries.

In Europe, Britain and Germany have been leaders in expelling extremist groups from their grounds.

In Spain, only Barcelona has made an effort, while clubs like Madrid—voted FIFA’s top club of the 20th century—have publicly endorsed extremists.

“Concerning the (ultras) I have nothing but good things to say,” former Madrid president Ramon Calderon has said.

A construction and tourism boom in Spain over the past decade has fueled immigration and the sudden wave of foreigners has led to a rise in xenophobia, which has spread out from the cities to villages.

The Internet has allowed radical groups to form better bonds domestically and internationally, and there are now at least 150 Web sites in Spain to lend their voice.

“Before 2000 you would walk down the street and be looking around and see no color,” said Joan Lino, a Cuban long jumper who moved to Spain and won bronze for the country at the 2004 Athens Olympics.

Lino, is one of three Dominicans on the team involved in “Everyone Olympians,” which is sponsored by Madrid’s 2016 bid committee and aims to educate young people about the values of the Olympic spirit.

“Integration has always been complicated, but the Spanish are not racist,” Lino said. “They just haven’t had much immigration until now, so it’s a matter of coping with change. If you don’t have something, it’s usual to initially reject it. Racism is too strong a word for it.”

Spain’s Socialist government promised to pass a more wide-ranging and general law related to racism in society after winning last year’s election, but has yet to act. Spain’s Interior Ministry does not keep any record of racist acts.

The Spanish media’s close links to soccer clubs has also kept it from opening the debate.

Then-Spain coach Luis Aragones’ racist jibe in 2004 against France striker Thierry Henry to motivate one of his players was treated with humor, which set the tone for the abuse of England players in the ensuing match.

In August, Spain’s silver-medal winning Olympic basketball team was photographed in an ad using their fingers to apparently make their eyes look more Asians.

Last year, F1 champion Lewis Hamilton, the sport’s first black champion, was the target of racist abuse by a Spanish Web site nine months after a group of people wore dark face paint and T-shirts with the slogan “Hamilton’s Family” at testing near Barcelona.

Hamilton continues to be a target for many Spaniards who believe the British driver derailed Fernando Alonso’s championship hopes at McLaren.

De Guzman, the Deportivo La Coruna player, said he looks at the abuse as just a way for fans to try to knock a player off his game.

“At the end of the day,” he said, “these guys making the monkey chants, they also have dark-skinned players on their side.”

[CanadianSoccerFan]

Polish football has a huge racism problem as well but UEFA still gave them the Euro.

Polish football's racism problem

Mihir Bose - BBC sports editor 7 Apr 08, 01:16 PM

Racism may never be fully eradicated from football, but what I found during an investigation into the problem in Poland was truly shocking.

And this in the country that will co-host the 2012 European Football Championship.

I found racism that was strident and in your face in a way it never was in Britain, even in the very bad old days of English football in the 1970s and 80s.

Then, as one of the regular football reporters at the Sunday Times, I spent my Saturdays at football matches and had several first-hand experiences of racism.

Much of it was very unpleasant. But in Poland it was on a different, deeper and much nastier level.

In a street in central Warsaw, not far from the hotel where I was staying, there was a lot of graffiti about 'white power' and the Ku Klux Klan, all associated with the city's main team Legia Warsaw.

And this wasn't the only place where the problem was evident.

One evening, as myself, my cameraman and producer were going about central Warsaw filming our piece for Inside Sport, we were approached by a skinhead who said he was a Legia fan and made it clear that he was a racist and keen to broadcast his view.

Watch Mihir Bose's Inside Sport report on Polish football

As I interviewed him he told me to go back to my country, meaning India, the land of my birth. He would not look me in the eye as we spoke and at the end of my interview, refused to shake my hand.

He may have been an exhibitionist and, I must stress, Polish passers by were embarrassed by what he said and tried to distance themselves from him.

But talking to many people, including those running football in Poland, he did not seem untypical of a certain section of Polish fans.

Indeed, the president of Legia Warsaw, Leszek Miklas, an impressive and honest man, readily admitted that 15-20% of his club's fans were neo-Nazis.

Legia are banned from Europe because of the violence of their fans. His explanation for such deep-seated racism was that Poles are not used to seeing people of different colours or cultures in their country.

Perhaps the most chilling example of how embedded racism is in Polish football was when I met Jacek Pulski of Never Again, the Polish equivalent of Kick it Out.

We had agreed to meet in the Stalin-built Palace of Culture and Science in central Warsaw, where I expected his offices to be located.

No he said, he did not have his office there or anywhere else in Warsaw. Partly through lack of funding but, more importantly, if they had an office, Jacek was fearful it would be a firebomb target for racists.

We then spent some time driving round Warsaw to find a cafe where we could talk in peace.

He showed me photographs taken during Polish football matches in the last two years where brazen images of neo-Nazi symbols had been displayed.

This not only included the White Legion banner of the infamous skinheads of Legia Warsaw but, most chillingly, a picture of away fans in a lower division league match forming a human swastika in the stands.

He then told me the story of the black player who had been hospitalised by a third division club's supporters, despite scoring two goals. And all because they did not want an Afro-Caribbean in their side.

He told me that I, because of my brown skin, would not be safe in more than two or three grounds in Poland.

I was made very welcome at Legia Warsaw. But there were areas of the ground I was told I could not go into because of the colour of my skin.

This was confirmed when I met Dixon Choto, the Zimbabwean international who plays for Legia Warsaw.

Before meeting him I had spent some time watching his team-mates train. This could have been a training session anywhere - people of different colours united by football.

But, as we walked round the stadium, he pointed to a stand where his friends and family were not welcome because of the colour of their skin.

He also told me I should not go there as I would not be safe. He also said he had his share of monkey chants and bananas being tossed at him. This happened more at away matches now.

Worse still, he said when he reacted to such racism on the field of play, Polish football authorities called him to a disciplinary hearing, where the opposition manager said he did not hear the chants, despite being heard loud and clear by Dixon's wife, who was at home watching on television.

I went to a Legia Warsaw home match at the Polish Army Stadium, where the team fielded black players without any visible problems, although I was not able to go anywhere near the stand, which takes up a whole side of the ground, where the 'ultras' gather.

Before the match I had been to a bar near the ground where the hardcore supporters meet.

It was made clear by some fans, who feared for my safety and that of my crew, I should leave.

I managed to speak to these moderate fans who did not deny that racism existed but insisted that Poland was not alone in having this scourge.

So what does this mean for 2012?

Dixon told me frankly that Poland was not ready to host Euro 2012. Pulski agreed, although he hoped the tournament would highlight the issue and help the country tackle its racism problem.

Polish competition organisers accept there is a problem at league level, but say national team supporters do not display racist behaviour, despite photographic evidence I was shown that suggested the contrary.

They are confident that 2012 will pass without incident.

Poland needs heavy financial investment to get its infrastructure ready for 2012. The Polish media are already expressing worries about how this will be done.

But tackling such deep-seated racism in time to welcome a Europe of all colours may be much more difficult than building roads and stadia.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/04/polish_footballs_racism_proble.html

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Anyone who thinks such dumb criteria are really quantified by anyone is out to lunch. FIFA only is concerned with voting blocks, vote buying, power trading, and having a place that won't let them totally down in terms of sponsors, income. Nothing more.

I agree with that. But at the same time, nobody like to look stupid or hypocritical. And while everything you say is correct, organizations like Fifa are equally mind full of optics and perceptions. They cant run around plastering signs of "Say no to racism" all over the stadiums and then at the same time ignore completely ignore this when awarding the WC.

Sure they can sweep it all under the rug over time (as I suspect would happen) but if the issue of racism continues to linger then it can affect the power blocks and vote buying. Because at the end of the day, the people who decide (FIFA) are politician. Just as much as people who are lining their pockets.

[jpfgarci]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Anyone who thinks such dumb criteria are really quantified by anyone is out to lunch. FIFA only is concerned with voting blocks, vote buying, power trading, and having a place that won't let them totally down in terms of sponsors, income. Nothing more.

Well of course. Sort of.

FIFA is in it for the money, though they have shown some long-term interest in growing the game. Hence the US got it in '94. Hence South Korea and Japan in 2002. Hence South Africa is hosting 2010.

But I don't think that means anything this time around. If it's money they're after (could it be?), then it goes to England first. Where the money is. And then the US. And then China in 2026, and they could just rotate those three countries until the end of time.

Ultimately though, they look at other issues to: Growing the fanbase, developing infrastructure, and so on. I think Australia has a good shot in 2022 for that reason, but politics will probably get in the way of a strong bid.

On the other hand, as Free Kick just pointed out, they can't all out ignore the serious racism problems in both Russia and Spain. And as the Bose piece and others point out, it's not necessarily a widespread problem, but it is one that seems to happen too frequently in soccer stadiums in those countries. In England, it's virtually unheard of. Those two bids won't be eliminated on that basis alone (certainly both will pledge big anti-racism programs), but rather because England is the favourite, hasn't hosted in half a century, and mostly because it already has all of the stadia and the infrastructure ready to go right now, and in one place.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Where you are wrong is that it is unheard of in England. It has been heard of in EPL in a couple of incidents this year, only they sweep it under the carpet. And the English press emphasizes the issue elsewhere to whitewash, literally. It is a question of taking a bit of the pressure off, since English (plus some Scottish like Rangers) fans continue to be the worst behaved away supporters and the ones who create the biggest problems in security, drunkeness, and, yes, racist attitudes. I have never seen any other nations supporters treat your average Spaniard waiter or shopkeeper with such disdain and air of cultural superiority, they are the absolutely worst, and by far.

Just two years ago the FA came out with a promo video of its entire history and did not include one non-white player in it. And that was not exactly ignored by the press either. You go to many English stadiums and it looks like apartheid is in place, the fan base is overwhelmingly white male, you get the feeling that neither other races or other genders would not always be comfortable. Not in all, but in the few I have been to it was like that, even in places where there was a large non-white population. And not in all, but in a hell of a lot of matches you see on the tube.

Anything else is just an attempt to get a sporting advantage, or, given the case, a commercial advantage.

But if money is what FIFA is interested in, then take the World Cup to Russia, since the money in England is increasingly foreign anyways and will be even more so, more than anywhere else in Europe, by the time these WCs come along.

[jpfgarci]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

But if money is what FIFA is interested in, then take the World Cup to Russia, since the money in England is increasingly foreign anyways and will be even more so, more than anywhere else in Europe, by the time these WCs come along.

Sure, but a whole lot of that money is Russian money making its way to England (where it is politically safer). The main monetary advantage for England (and the US, for that matter) is that the average fan has a lot more money to spend on tickets and beers at the game.

What this is going to come down to is whether FIFA wants to make money on the tournament, or whether the FIFA Directors want to make money on the bidding process. If it's the latter, I can see Russia winning one and South Korea winning the other. But I don't really think that's going to happen.

I mean, sure there's naivety in that argument, but it's way too big a project for even the Russian oligarchs to buy it out from under the English/Spanish noses.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

Blatter also reiterated his preference for single World Cup hosts, suggesting that Spain should abandon its joint bid with Portugal if it wishes to capture the 2018 tournament.

Last month, FIFA received 11 preliminary bids to host the 2018 or 2022 World Cups, including applications from the U.S., England, Russia and joint bids from Spain-Portugal and Belgium-Netherlands.

There is a ''general understanding'' that Europe will play host in 2018 after South Africa in 2010 and Brazil in 2014, Blatter said.

Candidates for 2018 have to file their official bid book by June 2010 and a decision will be made by the 24-member FIFA executive committee in December of next year.

''For political reasons we had to share the 2002 World Cup with South Korea and Japan,'' Blatter said. ''But it was not one World Cup in two countries, it was two World Cups, with two organizing committees, twice the expenses and once the income.

''The executive committee has taken the decision as long as we have individual candidates able to organize the World Cup alone then this should be the principle.''

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=270765&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_soccer