Eric Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I'm just curious about your opinion on this issue. It seams blurry for many soccer fans in Canada. Maybe if we can agree on this issue then we'll be able to understand each other more clearly when we discuss amateur, semi pro and pro. IMO professionalism is an attitude first and foremost which in the end translates into huge revenue for the best professionals out there. Obviously we can argue all day about what describes a professional footballer, in my opinion is about his/her performance ON the field at official matches, then attitude at practice and around teammates and club officials and lastly attitude off the pitch, meaning dealing with fans and the media. The one I will never consider will be his or her personal life, because that's what that is and is nobody's business. OK, shoot! [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 professional: soccer is prime income source, typically train five days a week in the morning during the regular 9 to 5 workday semi-professional: paid to play but main income source is outside the game, typically train on weekday evenings amateur: not paid to play, main income source outside the game, at the elite level rather than rec league stuff will train on weekday evenings as well Where it gets blurry is that with quite a few top amateur teams the players don't pay a registration fee or for their kit or anything like that and will receive payments of some description even though officially amateur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 Then what you saying is those "top amateur teams" are really semi pro teams then. Based on your argument, money makes the professional. Let me give you an example of how money does not make the pro. Even though our background is not hispanic, back in the late 70's and early 80's my older brother was a very good striker who used to play for a few teams in the hispanic league. I remember him always being approached by different clubs from the old NSL offering him a place in their team. They would offer him back then a full contract (10 months) of about $5000 per month. Of course he would have to practice five times per week, plus the games and some friendlies and some promotional work was required, just like what the TFC players do now. It was always mind-boggling to me the fact that he will never accept those offers to play what was obviously professional soccer, instead he always went for those clubs in the hispanic league that paid the same or some times even more money that those from the NSL, obviously for him the amount of money was always the deciding factor. The obvious difference was, those teams in the hispanic league used to practice only twice a week and their practices where unorganized, yes the talent was tremendous but the professionalism was inexistent. Now, how can my brother be consider a pro, even though he was playing and making more money at the hispanic league, he's attitude was obviously amateur towards the game and more money never made him a professional either. This went on for more than a decade and he was not the only one. My obvious point here is, my brother was never a pro and making more money than what the pros from back then were making, NEVER made him a pro. Therefore I argue that money doesn't make the pro, attitude does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 ^ So by extension of your argument, somebody who plays with the 'right' attitude but receives no payment for playing still qualifies as a professional? I don't think so. He may have a professional-like attitude towards the game but he is not a professional athlete. Was that hispanic league sanctioned by the OSA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 mmmm.....let see, this is what I found in the Merriam-Webster dictionary describing PROFESSIONAL: 1 a: of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b: engaged in one of the learned professions c (1): characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2): exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace 2 a: participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b: having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c: engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football> 3: following a line of conduct as though it were a profession <a professional patriot> I see more reference to ethics than money in here but I understand your believe and your reasoning. I used to think the same way, not any more though. Yes, that hispanic league was sanctioned by the OSA and they knew all about it, just as they knew the italian league, the greek league, the Toronto and District league (T&D) and most of all the amateur leagues in Toronto were paying the players to play for them. The OSA never care because they were collecting the all mighty registration fee. Also many of the NSL players where also playing for one or two teams on the side to make extra $$$$$, of course this was all legal because the stupid OSA allows players in Ontario to play for three teams at the same time as long as two of them are amateur and the other competitive what a joke. OSA Rules on the matter. 2.15 With the permission of his/her District Association, an amateur player may register on a maximum of three outdoor teams, only one of which may be a competitive team. 2.17 A professional player may register on a maximum of one professional outdoor team and one professional indoor team. 2.18 However, a player may not play for more than one team in the same division, cup, or competition. It is very difficult to encourage a professional attitude into young players in the province of Ontario when you have a governing body that only cares about the registration fee and allows for this sort of behaviour to happen, even today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Cambridge dictionary defines a professional as a person who does as a job what people usually do as a hobby. Somebody who works all week earning a living as a carpenter and who plays soccer on weekends in an ostensibly amateur league for $100 a game hardly qualifiers as a professional footballer. That same person may however display a professional attitude towards the game but that does not make him a professional athlete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Richard Cambridge dictionary defines a professional as a person who does as a job what people usually do as a hobby. Somebody who works all week earning a living as a carpenter and who plays soccer on weekends in an ostensibly amateur league for $100 a game hardly qualifiers as a professional footballer. That same person may however display a professional attitude towards the game but that does not make him a professional athlete. First of all a carpenter is a skilled trade worker not a professional worker. A trade is a skilled job such as carpenter, plumber, etc, a profession is more white collar .. doctor, dentist, business manager.... wait!! ...soccer players are professionals? oh yeah, because of the money they make, right. So what is the MLS minimum salary? is it $30,000? ....$2,500 per month before taxes, I know many players in the CSL that make a lot more than that, but they're not "professionals" because???? I know of players in Honduras, Argentina, Hungary, South Africa and Brazil that make less than that amount of money, but they are so called professionals, because they have a signed contract that doesn't allow them to do another job even though they only earn minimum wages playing football and they enjoy the privilege of being called professionals...... something is wrong here Richard, somebody is not telling or admitting to the truth here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 ^ I have a sense you and I will never agree on the language and concepts here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschamp86 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Eric First of all a carpenter is a skilled trade worker not a professional worker. A trade is a skilled job such as carpenter, plumber, etc, a profession is more white collar .. doctor, dentist, business manager.... wait!! ...soccer players are professionals? oh yeah, because of the money they make, right. So what is the MLS minimum salary? is it $30,000? ....$2,500 per month before taxes, I know many players in the CSL that make a lot more than that, but they're not "professionals" because???? I know of players in Honduras, Argentina, Hungary, South Africa and Brazil that make less than that amount of money, but they are so called professionals, because they have a signed contract that doesn't allow them to do another job even though they only earn minimum wages playing football and they enjoy the privilege of being called professionals...... something is wrong here Richard, somebody is not telling or admitting to the truth here. Cost of living is lower in South American countries. So if they can live off a lower salary of 10-15k per year, then that would still be considered professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Richard ^ I have a sense you and I will never agree on the language and concepts here. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 GOT IT!!! after talking and asking the question to many different people in different circles and no body being able to give me simple answer (not even here) I ask my girlfriend the question and she responded like it was obvious... THE CONTRACT, she went on saying it has nothing to do with the money you make or the attitude you have, it's all about signing a contract with a so called professional soccer club register in a professional soccer league... that's all she said. I finally found the answer I was looking for. Next time I'll ask her first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 The little woman is always right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 ^ Damn!!! [^] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 ^ Believe me, I've been married 40 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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