Swapping blades for cleats in Scarborough

[Vic]

quote:The World Juniors is a big thing in Canada. Canadians like hockey. In Southwest Calgary, I lose kids to hockey each season. And I see lots of minorities playing the game.

Minorities? You mean the French? Hockey is as white as deer hunting and beer pong. It's no coincidence the guy in the middle is white:

These are the first google images I could find:

[piltdownman]

Give them a generation. I played minor hockey with alot of indians. Wait until they grow up and can teach their kids to play.

[tmcmurph]

quote:Originally posted by piltdownman

Give them a generation. I played minor hockey with alot of indians. Wait until they grow up and can teach their kids to play.

Someone must have told them "it's just like cricket!" to get them started

[superbrad]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

^ The World Juniors is a big thing in Canada. Canadians like hockey. In Southwest Calgary, I lose kids to hockey each season. And I see lots of minorities playing the game. To say the World Juniors is not a big deal is just plain stupidity. It obviously is a big deal. Why else would attendance records be set every time it's held in Canada? Why else would it set ratings records? You know it is not a cop out to both support Canadian soccer and NOT deny that Canada's biggest sport -- by a huge margin -- is hockey.

For those of you not old enough to remember (I know you remember Ed [}] )- the Junior World Championships has always been a big deal in Canada. This was followed well before TSN was ever involved.

[Blackdude]

It wasn`t a big deal until the brawl between the Soviets and Canadians in 1987. That is what made canadians care:

It grew because the next year, there were more journalists from Canada to go to the World Juniors and TSN thought that they could make it bigger (and they did)

[masster]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

I believe what they are saying is that no one would have given a crap about the World Juniors if TSN hadn't turned it into their pet project and hyped the hell out of it.

I tend to agree with that point of view, but at the same time I enjoy watching the World Juniors (I attended the Canada vs. Sweden pre-tournament game in Toronto and it was some great hockey).

Thanks Rudi. That is exactly what I was saying. TSN created what has become a holiday tradition in Canada. That is why I aways jump on the media. They have more power than they realize. They claim they react to the public's demands, but there are many instances like this that prove at times it is the other way around.

Don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean I don't like the World Juniors. I just hope some network would commit to soccer like TSN did with that tournament and also the CFL when it was on its death bed. CBC seems to be the only network that might make this happen.

[superbrad]

TSN is in the middle of a 7 year contract to televise all these types of tournaments (Juniors, Spengler etc). If it were TSN that starting televising this tournament (i'm not sure - makes sense though as they began in 1984 and I'm sure they were trying to fill programming) and the ratings were strong than it was worth continuing otherwise they would have axed it....thats how TV works.....and thats why soccer gets limited coverage in a hockey crazed country.

[red card]

as superbrad said, World Juniors were an item before it was on TSN - I still vividly remember watching the brawl on a Sunday afternoon in the late 80s on CBC.

But as with the CFL, TSN took the World Juniors coverage to the next level. The majority of their highest rated programs in history are World Junior games - this year's rating of 4m+ for final game (TSN & RDS) is likely to be the most watched sporting event on Cdn tv. To get these ratings isn't simply due to TSN - people in Canada want to watch.

Part of the allure is that hockey is basically the only team sport Canada is viewed as having a chance of winning - nearly all of our other teams don't make it to the Olympics or choke while there.

In watching the Juniors, it shows what Cdn men's national soccer team is missing. Our team collapsed after drawing the first match, but the Juniors come back from being down 3-0 and score in the last second against the Russians.

Instead our players whine about the CSA, Mitchell and others. These complaints are more than valid, but the players themselves are lacking something inside that Cdn hockey players have.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

^ The World Juniors is a big thing in Canada. Canadians like hockey. In Southwest Calgary, I lose kids to hockey each season. And I see lots of minorities playing the game. To say the World Juniors is not a big deal is just plain stupidity. It obviously is a big deal. Why else would attendance records be set every time it's held in Canada? Why else would it set ratings records? You know it is not a cop out to both support Canadian soccer and NOT deny that Canada's biggest sport -- by a huge margin -- is hockey.

What I mean is that from speaking to a lot of minor hockey players and people heavily involved in the game there's a lot people who actually believe in their own mind that the World Juniors is a huge international event just below the olympics, world cup etc. Obviously to anyone with half a brain this is totally ridiculous but if you're a hockey nut that watches TSN 24/7 it's easy to see how they'd develop these ideas.

[Guest Ed]

You said in an earlier thread that TSN brainwashed Canada into thinking this is a big event. I say that's bull****. It is a big tournament in Canada and has been for many years. And, in Canada, is at least as big as the World Cup. I'd be a little more careful throwing out those 'half a brain' remarks.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by masster

Thanks Rudi. That is exactly what I was saying. TSN created what has become a holiday tradition in Canada. That is why I aways jump on the media. They have more power than they realize. They claim they react to the public's demands, but there are many instances like this that prove at times it is the other way around.

Don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean I don't like the World Juniors. I just hope some network would commit to soccer like TSN did with that tournament and also the CFL when it was on its death bed. CBC seems to be the only network that might make this happen.

I agree with everything you said. You could easily extend your argument to other events such the Canadian Junior Hockey league and most importantly to canadian college sports versus big time NCAA athletics. Outside of the avid follower ( which constitutes a very very tiny minority ) people just watch what on and what get heavily hyped as important. The word "important" is key because when you get down to it, no sports event is realy more important than any other. Therefore, what people will tune in to watch is what they believe is important. And, that belief of what is important is shaped by the media through aggressive hype and giving the event front page treatment. Two examples:

If there are millions upon millions of viewers out there tuning in to watch the world Junior tourny, you would think that the CHL teams should be drawing the same viewership and playing out of NHL size arenas to handle all the crowds. But they dont. Not even the junior teams in the big urban centres. Why? obviously because when the world junior tournament is over, the networks and media have the NHL contract ( which they paid big buck for ) on their plate. So Jr hockey go back to very back pages and the tickers instead of the headline and the lead. So if I'm thinking about what I want do this weekend, the chance to go see a junior hockey game wont come to mind and furthermore, I am not inclined to know if there is a local game on and at what time and what place. Not without looking it up.

Same applies to college sports. Can we honnestly believe that there is a greater emotional attachmnent in canada to US colleges and Universities as opposed to to canadian universities? Most Cnds who attended post secondary school, went to a canadian institutions. And dont tell me that every viewer can distinguish between a 10 yard pass completion from a Florida state QB from a 10 yard pass completion from Bishop's Gaiters QB. And do people really care about about throwing style etc... Yet what are you more likely to see in primetime, A CIAU championship game or an NCAA championship game? who pays for the production costs? But, you will see greater highlight package coverage of NCAA even though there is no eveidence of high viewer demand.

[squizz1402635577]

Y'know, for an event that no one in Canada cares about, the WJHC sure are getting talked about a lot on this Canadian soccer forum.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

You said in an earlier thread that TSN brainwashed Canada into thinking this is a big event. I say that's bull****. It is a big tournament in Canada and has been for many years. And, in Canada, is at least as big as the World Cup. I'd be a little more careful throwing out those 'half a brain' remarks.

I do like the tournament and believe that, overall, the quality of hockey is high and very entertaining. But come on, you going to tell me that TSN hasn't hyped the crap out of this thing to make it look like it more important than the invasion of Normandy? Plus they tug on all the strings ( patriotic, nationalistic, underdog.. etc) to make it a big draw. Truth is, the other national sides dont place a tenth of the importance to this event as canada does. And no national hockey program in world has anywhere near the kind of $$$ that hockey has in Canada. So who is the underdog? Fact is, Canada is the overwhelming favourite at this thing.

Though ( as I said earlier) the hockey is good, and I would follow it under any circumstances. But honnestly, what kind of audience would the thing get if it got the same level of media treatment as the CHL game of the week gets? Moreso given that you will never see as big a mismatch as Canada versus Kazakstan in your typical CHL game.

[jpg75]

To everyone bashing hockey why don't you please give it a rest, this IS a Hockey country and you can like BOTH Hockey and Soccer. There's no need for an either-or mentality from the sporting community, there's plenty of room for both sports (and other sports too) to thrive and be supported by the Cdn public.

As for the WJHC, it was already a big deal before TSN got it's hands on it. But seeing as Canada is now the 5-time defending champion for the second time (first time was champs from 1993-97) and best-on-best international competitions have been far and few between this event fills the patriotic vacuum and TSN are smart to capitalize on that. Most Canadian hockey fans would love to see our best players kick the crap out of the rest of the world on a consistent basis, but these events rarely happen (Canada/World Cup and Olympics). The WJHC is an annual competition and it gives us a chance to cheer on a winning Canadian team at the sport we most love.

I'd also like to point out that the CSA has a lot to learn from Hockey Canada in maximizing merchandise revenue. The Sens stores at ScotiaBank Place were stacked full of Canadian hockey merchandise. We each bought a jersey and foam "#1" fingers. There were also scarves, t-shirts, shorts, jackets, pucks, key chains, sticks, etc. available.

[tmcmurph]

quote:Originally posted by squizz

Y'know, for an event that no one in Canada cares about, the WJHC sure are getting talked about a lot on this Canadian soccer forum.

Good point! I've enjoyed the WJHC even though I think hockey is 24x7x365 total saturation in this country. I still go see the odd Hitmen game but I don't watch NHL much. Nothing against it just saturated to the point of not caring.

The players change every year in the WJHC so you get to see who is coming up. Who will be the next big thing. That is why the U20 World Cup for soccer is popular around the world.

You get to see an excellent level of play in both. But the amount of time in between each soccer event means it gets lost. North American audiences seem to be focussed on annual events much more.

Now we have the Voyager's Cup to get soccer on the annual competition map! Maybe in a few years we can see a VC for the academy sides? All U20 or U17 in each club play.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

To everyone bashing hockey why don't you please give it a rest, this IS a Hockey country and you can like BOTH Hockey and Soccer. There's no need for an either-or mentality from the sporting community, there's plenty of room for both sports (and other sports too) to thrive and be supported by the Cdn public.

As for the WJHC, it was already a big deal before TSN got it's hands on it. But seeing as Canada is now the 5-time defending champion for the second time (first time was champs from 1993-97) and best-on-best international competitions have been far and few between this event fills the patriotic vacuum and TSN are smart to capitalize on that. Most Canadian hockey fans would love to see our best players kick the crap out of the rest of the world on a consistent basis, but these events rarely happen (Canada/World Cup and Olympics). The WJHC is an annual competition and it gives us a chance to cheer on a winning Canadian team at the sport we most love.

I'd also like to point out that the CSA has a lot to learn from Hockey Canada in maximizing merchandise revenue. The Sens stores at ScotiaBank Place were stacked full of Canadian hockey merchandise. We each bought a jersey and foam "#1" fingers. There were also scarves, t-shirts, shorts, jackets, pucks, key chains, sticks, etc. available.

Maybe I have't really read all the posts closely in this thread. Because, I am not sure that anyone was bashing the event or Junior hockey. I know that I wasn't or wasn't intending to. Rather, I saw it more as a philosphical thing about why seomthing garners a following and soemthing else doesn't.

We could have easily extended it to a discussion about the news events that we follow, the music that we listen to, or the food that we eat. And, I would have drawn the same conclusion.

[matthew]

I was so trying to stay out of this. To say that the World Juniors was a minor thing that existed, yet no one really cared about (much like say the IIHF World Under-18s) until TSN got ahold of it is pretty ridiculous IMO.

Gretzky’s appearance in 78 helped get the ball rolling and as Canada began the Program of Excellence and stopped sending the Memorial Cup champs the torunament grew in interest.

The USSR dominated the thing as it continued to dominate the international scene (save the 80 Olympics and a couple of wins by the Czechs in the mid-70s). So when we won in 1982 in Minnesota it was a great achievement and a source of pride after we got our asses handed to us 8-1 in the 81 Canada Cup final. Plus they had the role of the plucky underdog. The organizers failed to bring O Canada so the Canadians locked arm in arm and belted it out a cappela and a tradition was born.

So by then the tournament was already growing in importance without the aid of a huge outside push, but the game in Piestany was a national story and a huge event. The summer of 87 featured a Canada Cup final that I think is the best hockey ever played and so in the 88 WJC you have Canada meeting the Soviets in Moscow a year after the brawl with the rivalry possibly at its apex. That was three years before TSN even started airing the thing.

In my mind that was when the WJC became a holiday tradition in Canada and a part of our sporting landscape forever.

I agree that TSN overhypes the thing, don’t get me wrong, but I watched every game they aired. I don’t think they ‘created’ this interest. It’s there.

cheers,

matthew

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Maybe I have't really read all the posts closely in this thread. Because, I am not sure that anyone was bashing the event or Junior hockey. I know that I wasn't or wasn't intending to. Rather, I saw it more as a philosphical thing about why seomthing garners a following and soemthing else doesn't.

My statement was not directed at you or really much that's been written in the past couple of days. There appear to be a few posters on Page 1 that demonstrated delight at the impending doom of Hockey. Apparently they love the fact that new Canadians are not taking up the sport. Call it hyperbole, but i think this is a symptom of the identity crisis we face in Canada. A feeling amongst new immigrants of exclusion, or perhaps an unwillingness to assimilate (or combination of both) and it's playing itself out in the registration numbers of the countries' favourite sport.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Why are people compelled to love hockey before they are regarded as being truly Canadian? In most countries it is regarded as normal that some people would prefer one sport, while others prefer a different one and nobody's patriotism would ever be questioned on that basis. Although the mainstream media outlets repeat the idea that hockey is the be all and end all over and over almost as an article of faith, in reality the ratings the Stanley Cup gets compared to a big World Cup game over in Europe when 70 or 80% of the population can be glued to the screen are nothing particularly spectacular. What always strikes me is that Canadian society is not hugely sports oriented compared to other western countries.

[jpg75]

^ I don't think anyone has said you have to love Hockey to be regarded as Canadian.

[Guest Ed]

^ Nobody said that bbtb, rather, what was said is that to say that hockey is not huge in Canada is to be in denial. Big difference. You don't have to like hockey in Canada, but to say that it is overly hyped as it is not really that big a sport here, well that's just plain stupidity.

And as far as ratings go, look at the ratings that the Junior games got over the last two weeks. Insane numbers. The final vs the Swedes was TSN's HIGHEST RATED SHOW all time. The game was watched in its entirety or in part by nearly 30% of Canadians.

BTW, that nearly 30% is just slightly lower than percentage population figures in the major Euro countries for the last WC final game (e.g., Italy: 40%, France: 36%, UK, Germany: 32%), Spain: 17%).

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The audience averaged 1.9 million and peaked at 2.7 million according to this article:-

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20090106/ca_pr_on_jr_ho/hky_world_jr_ratings_2

The Canadian population is 33.5 million so that is well under 10% watching it from start to finish.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

The audience averaged 1.9 million and peaked at 2.7 million according to this article:-

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20090106/ca_pr_on_jr_ho/hky_world_jr_ratings_2

The Canadian population is 33.5 million so that is well under 10% watching it from start to finish.

You just provided the stats for the semifinal game against Russia. Keep looking.

Here's a hint: http://www.tsn.ca/world_jrs/story/?id=262167&lid=sublink01&lpos=headlines_main

[superbrad]

quote:Originally posted by matthew

I was so trying to stay out of this. To say that the World Juniors was a minor thing that existed, yet no one really cared about (much like say the IIHF World Under-18s) until TSN got ahold of it is pretty ridiculous IMO.

Gretzky’s appearance in 78 helped get the ball rolling and as Canada began the Program of Excellence and stopped sending the Memorial Cup champs the torunament grew in interest.

The USSR dominated the thing as it continued to dominate the international scene (save the 80 Olympics and a couple of wins by the Czechs in the mid-70s). So when we won in 1982 in Minnesota it was a great achievement and a source of pride after we got our asses handed to us 8-1 in the 81 Canada Cup final. Plus they had the role of the plucky underdog. The organizers failed to bring O Canada so the Canadians locked arm in arm and belted it out a cappela and a tradition was born.

So by then the tournament was already growing in importance without the aid of a huge outside push, but the game in Piestany was a national story and a huge event. The summer of 87 featured a Canada Cup final that I think is the best hockey ever played and so in the 88 WJC you have Canada meeting the Soviets in Moscow a year after the brawl with the rivalry possibly at its apex. That was three years before TSN even started airing the thing.

In my mind that was when the WJC became a holiday tradition in Canada and a part of our sporting landscape forever.

I agree that TSN overhypes the thing, don’t get me wrong, but I watched every game they aired. I don’t think they ‘created’ this interest. It’s there.

cheers,

matthew

Game. Set. Match. Well said.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

You just provided the stats for the semifinal game against Russia. Keep looking.

Here's a hint: http://www.tsn.ca/world_jrs/story/?id=262167&lid=sublink01&lpos=headlines_main

So at most about 10% of the population watched the final all the way through and 90% did not. Hardly a nation held transfixed. Rangers had 200,000 fans in Manchester for the UEFA cup final a few months back, which is about 4% of Scotland's population. I don't see anything like the same devotion to hockey in Canada that there was for soccer in Scotland when I was growing up. That's not necessarily a bad thing, incidentally.