Mitchell still not fired

[Daniel]

Canada was officially eliminated October 11th, two and a half months ago. After two home games, we had one point and were going into Mexico.

Here are the final standings for our group:

Honduras 4-0-2 12pts

Mexico 3-1-2 10pts

Jamaica 3-1-2 10pts

Canada 0-2-4 2pts

Any self-respecting country would have fired Mitchell at any point between September 7th and today (or even after the U20s, if you want to play it like that). Yet, on Christmas 2008, he's still our head coach for the forseeable future.

If the people running the game in this country can't take themselves seriously, I don't know why any one of us should take them seriously.

The way this national team is managed is a joke, and I don't think we should forget that simply because people have been laying low.

[canucklefan]

If they fire him, they'll have to pay the rest of his contract and Dale Mitchell seems to be a man with no honor. It's the first time I see something like this, he refuses to resign knowing that every [CMNT] fan wants him out.

[stacks]

If you were making 6-digit money in these economic times, Would you resign? I didn't think so.

[squizz1402635577]

quote:Originally posted by canucklefan

If they fire him, they'll have to pay the rest of his contract and Dale Mitchell seems to be a man with no honor. It's the first time I see something like this, he refuses to resign knowing that every [CMNT] fan wants him out.

Do you think he does know how unpopular he is, though? I mean, think about it. In a real soccer country, people would be publicly calling for the manager's head, and the headlines would splash across the newspaper and TV reports. Here... unless Mitchell happens to troll the Voyageurs board, how would he know? Have you seen any media report, anywhere, which referred to fans' dissatisfaction with Mitchell?

[The Ref]

It is possible he does not know how to use a computer to navigate to the Voyageurs. So why don't we prepare a petition asking him to resign immediately, signed by all against-Mitchell Voyageurs, we printed and mail it to him by registered with a copy to his employer and media.

[squizz1402635577]

^ Not a bad idea.

[tmcmurph]

It will take a boycott by the players to get rid of DM before his term expires. Form a union/association and say no thanks to the callup en-mass is the only way.

Heck given the CSA's track record they might even extend his contract! I hope the CSA isn't that bad but ........ [xx(]

[Guest Jeffery S.]

If we take any action as Voyageurs our official contacts with the CSA will complain about that putting at risk all the good work done over the last few years when it comes to getting fans sitting together at home games. Amongst a few other things.

When I complained that the person doing most of that liasoning had also self-assigned himself as the person to do the official "exclusive" interview with the CSA, quite a few jumped on me. But I believe I was defending a clear and unarguable principle. Voyageurs can liason with the CSA without being its lackey, or letting itself get manipulated by it. Voyageurs can work as a lobby, with an independent voice, and at the same time have contact with organizations like the CSA that the vast majority are highly critical of. But obviously you cannot have the same people doing both tasks, nor let a minority steamroll views over a majority. And the majority posture right now is that we should be calling officially for the firing of Mitchell and a reform of the CSA constitution, as well as defending close review of its results from the corresponding political authorities (Secretary of State for Sport).

The CSA is an organization that has not served our interests over the years in general terms, and has failed in what most feel is our main objetive: to field a competitive team that lives up to its on paper potential. No one believes it has not succeeded at anything at all, but the general view is that the CSA has failed where it counts the most.

This is the reality as I see it: certain members of Voyageurs prefer to be on the good side of the CSA because it gets us supposed benefits, and that position is then used to stonewall when it comes to any effective protest that might express the overwhelming sentiment of hardcore Canadian fans: Mitchell should be fired, and the CSA needs serious reform, structural, perhaps even constitutional.

About 14 months ago I proposed a Voyageur letter publicly stating our opposition to the current board of the CSA as constituted, as it came out of a coup d'état against the former president and represented a power move, and an imposition of a national coach, that have both proven to be futile. And for the last year and a half the Voyageurs have been officially neutral about these events, we have not spoken out as a group. I have given my opinion why, and I am certainly not going to be the one to lead any sort of action against the CSA as long as the undemocratic minority that runs this group de facto has other interests to defend and insists on taking a soft to the point of ass-licking stance regarding the failures of the CSA.

Merry Xmas to everyone, peace on earth and good will to all men. Thank the Lord it is just a game, but what a game.

[wildguy27]

You are cruel and nasty people. Dumping on such a wonderful coach who has fully earned the right to coach out his contract.

[canucklefan]

quote:Originally posted by squizz

Do you think he does know how unpopular he is, though? I mean, think about it. In a real soccer country, people would be publicly calling for the manager's head, and the headlines would splash across the newspaper and TV reports. Here... unless Mitchell happens to troll the Voyageurs board, how would he know? Have you seen any media report, anywhere, which referred to fans' dissatisfaction with Mitchell?

I think he must know how unpopular he is, and the CSA too, but that not the question, as I said before, I think he has no honor, even if he's making a 6 digit money, and even if he doesn't know how unpopular he is, he should have resigned.

[Richard]

I don't think he will resign. A failed U-20 program, a failed senior MNT program with what many think was the highest quality squad in years, not much respect from the players and reviled by the fans.... he won't find it easy to find another high profile coaching job after this, maybe he could get a job as an assistant coach in the USL or in an academy coaching kids in some remote place. He will stay on till the bitter end, just watch.

[marcl_19]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

Canada was officially eliminated October 11th, two and a half months ago. After two home games, we had one point and were going into Mexico.

Here are the final standings for our group:

Honduras 4-0-2 12pts

Mexico 3-1-2 10pts

Jamaica 3-1-2 10pts

Canada 0-2-4 2pts

Any self-respecting country would have fired Mitchell at any point between September 7th and today (or even after the U20s, if you want to play it like that). Yet, on Christmas 2008, he's still our head coach for the forseeable future.

If the people running the game in this country can't take themselves seriously, I don't know why any one of us should take them seriously.

The way this national team is managed is a joke, and I don't think we should forget that simply because people have been laying low.

Merry Christmas Dale

[canucklefan]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

I don't think he will resign. A failed U-20 program, a failed senior MNT program with what many think was the highest quality squad in years, not much respect from the players and reviled by the fans.... he won't find it easy to find another high profile coaching job after this, maybe he could get a job as an assistant coach in the USL or in an academy coaching kids in some remote place. He will stay on till the bitter end, just watch.

I was thinking the same, he knows he's too bad, too idiot to coach a team, so this is his last chance to make $$$ as a coach.

[Bertuzzi44]

Is it possible the CSA has quietly been looking for a replacment ever since we were officially eliminated? (my hope)

....unlikely. (reality)

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

If we take any action as Voyageurs our official contacts with the CSA will complain about that putting at risk all the good work done over the last few years when it comes to getting fans sitting together at home games. Amongst a few other things.

When I complained that the person doing most of that liasoning had also self-assigned himself as the person to do the official "exclusive" interview with the CSA, quite a few jumped on me. But I believe I was defending a clear and unarguable principle. Voyageurs can liason with the CSA without being its lackey, or letting itself get manipulated by it. Voyageurs can work as a lobby, with an independent voice, and at the same time have contact with organizations like the CSA that the vast majority are highly critical of. But obviously you cannot have the same people doing both tasks, nor let a minority steamroll views over a majority. And the majority posture right now is that we should be calling officially for the firing of Mitchell and a reform of the CSA constitution, as well as defending close review of its results from the corresponding political authorities (Secretary of State for Sport).

The CSA is an organization that has not served our interests over the years in general terms, and has failed in what most feel is our main objetive: to field a competitive team that lives up to its on paper potential. No one believes it has not succeeded at anything at all, but the general view is that the CSA has failed where it counts the most.

This is the reality as I see it: certain members of Voyageurs prefer to be on the good side of the CSA because it gets us supposed benefits, and that position is then used to stonewall when it comes to any effective protest that might express the overwhelming sentiment of hardcore Canadian fans: Mitchell should be fired, and the CSA needs serious reform, structural, perhaps even constitutional.

About 14 months ago I proposed a Voyageur letter publicly stating our opposition to the current board of the CSA as constituted, as it came out of a coup d'état against the former president and represented a power move, and an imposition of a national coach, that have both proven to be futile. And for the last year and a half the Voyageurs have been officially neutral about these events, we have not spoken out as a group. I have given my opinion why, and I am certainly not going to be the one to lead any sort of action against the CSA as long as the undemocratic minority that runs this group de facto has other interests to defend and insists on taking a soft to the point of ass-licking stance regarding the failures of the CSA.

Merry Xmas to everyone, peace on earth and good will to all men. Thank the Lord it is just a game, but what a game.

Jeffrey S., I think you wrote down what I think too. It would be so nice if the vast group that the Voyageurs is could come together as an organization. As such we would have tremendous force in public opinion and on those organizations that mismanage soccer in Canada.

We would have literally removed Mitchell long ago. I find it frustrating giving opinions and ideas for action when at the end it all fizzles down to nothing.

[tmac55]

quote:Originally posted by Bertuzzi44

Is it possible the CSA has quietly been looking for a replacment ever since we were officially eliminated? (my hope)

....unlikely. (reality)

Lol if only the world of Canadian Soccer worked this way. What a shame overall but we should have stuck with Hart all along after the 2007 Gold Cup Showing.

[villus]

I can see staying on till the bitter end to collect the cheques but will this affect any of his future job prospects? Does he have any?

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by tmcmurph

It will take a boycott by the players to get rid of DM before his term expires. Form a union/association and say no thanks to the callup en-mass is the only way.

I'm pretty sure there will be more than enough players taking leave of the GC 09 while Mitchell's still in charge. You are always going to have guys willing to play so a formal boycott suggestion is pretty much impractical: heck, if Mitchell went way down his list and somehow reached my name I'd gladly play for him! Not as if that's gonna happen, however.

(But Dale, if you're reading this, my phone number is 403-555-1912: call me if you need a player!)

[villus]

Mitchell needs to be gone by GC, its bad enough we cant even make it paste the first stages of the WCQ's if we are still having a mutiny and Mitchell is in charge then the GC will be not only a waste, but a step backwards in our perception in the Soccer world. The Gold cup is crucial for us to get in competitive games with our core payers, Mitchell is not only going to screw our U-20 WC at home, our WCQ campaign with our best group of players ever and now also the Gold Cup.

[canucklefan]

quote:Originally posted by villus

Mitchell needs to be gone by GC

He has done all the damage he could have done, if the CSA are in [economic] trouble firing him, I think we can wait until the next WCQ, but after this, the CSA must not make the same mistake hiring a motherf*cker like Mitchell.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

If we take any action as Voyageurs our official contacts with the CSA will complain about that putting at risk all the good work done over the last few years when it comes to getting fans sitting together at home games. Amongst a few other things.

When I complained that the person doing most of that liasoning had also self-assigned himself as the person to do the official "exclusive" interview with the CSA, quite a few jumped on me. But I believe I was defending a clear and unarguable principle. Voyageurs can liason with the CSA without being its lackey, or letting itself get manipulated by it. Voyageurs can work as a lobby, with an independent voice, and at the same time have contact with organizations like the CSA that the vast majority are highly critical of. But obviously you cannot have the same people doing both tasks, nor let a minority steamroll views over a majority. And the majority posture right now is that we should be calling officially for the firing of Mitchell and a reform of the CSA constitution, as well as defending close review of its results from the corresponding political authorities (Secretary of State for Sport).

The CSA is an organization that has not served our interests over the years in general terms, and has failed in what most feel is our main objetive: to field a competitive team that lives up to its on paper potential. No one believes it has not succeeded at anything at all, but the general view is that the CSA has failed where it counts the most.

This is the reality as I see it: certain members of Voyageurs prefer to be on the good side of the CSA because it gets us supposed benefits, and that position is then used to stonewall when it comes to any effective protest that might express the overwhelming sentiment of hardcore Canadian fans: Mitchell should be fired, and the CSA needs serious reform, structural, perhaps even constitutional.

About 14 months ago I proposed a Voyageur letter publicly stating our opposition to the current board of the CSA as constituted, as it came out of a coup d'état against the former president and represented a power move, and an imposition of a national coach, that have both proven to be futile. And for the last year and a half the Voyageurs have been officially neutral about these events, we have not spoken out as a group. I have given my opinion why, and I am certainly not going to be the one to lead any sort of action against the CSA as long as the undemocratic minority that runs this group de facto has other interests to defend and insists on taking a soft to the point of ass-licking stance regarding the failures of the CSA.

Merry Xmas to everyone, peace on earth and good will to all men. Thank the Lord it is just a game, but what a game.

Jeffrey, you continue to make slanderous, unsubstantiated accusations against various Voyageurs and whenever anyone asks you to back up your claims you fail to do so. I will not accept this. I used to think of you as simply an argumentative guy that knew a lot about soccer but sometimes got carried away with his arguments as I and many other members also do at times. Over the past year I am starting to think that you are only interested in being divisive and creating problems within the Voyageurs. At the moment it seems to me that you are not interested in promoting the Voyageurs or Canadian soccer and are merely interested in stirring up **** for your own enjoyment.

As far as making public statements of Voyageurs opinion we have done so in the past and will do so in the future on issues that a strong majority of us feel strongly about. In fact, I think we made an official protest about the head coach hiring process about a year ago and that both you and I were involved in this. If there were issues that we did not make public statements about it was because there was a variety of opinion on the board. I personally would have been in favour of making a protest about the current board of directors as I was a supporter of Linford. However, there were also many members here who did not support Linford. The reason no official protest was made WAS NOT because members of the Voyageurs are in collusion with the CSA but rather because there was no consensus on the issue.

The reason no letter demanding Mitchell's resignation has been released is no one has proposed to do this. This seems to be an issue that there is a broad consensus on. Even though I personally think the players performance was as or more disappointing than Mitchell's, I absolutely think that Mitchell needs to resign or be fired and would support any call for an official statement to this regard from the Voyageurs. If we are to do this, someone needs to propose it on a thread and it must be discussed and agreed upon that a strong majority of Voyageurs support this action being taken. Also those making such a proposal must be willing to write a statement, have it read and criticized/revised on the board and to make the effort to send it out to the various organizations and media outlets. The Voaygeurs are not now nor have we ever been an organization that is in collusion with the CSA or afraid to criticize it.

I will also make a second proposal: That Jeffrey S. stop making unsubustantiated accusations against various Voygeurs, stop trying to be divisive and creating problems within our organizaton and to start to work in a positive manner within the organization to solve the problems in Canadian soccer that we all want to see solved.

[VPjr]

First of all, Merry Christmas to all the V's....its been another year of frustration but also a year of interesting debates on the message board. We can only hope for the best in 2009. I am hopeful that our current U20 squad is able to bring us some satisfaction while we watch our CONCACAF rivals battle it out in the HEX.

Regarding Dale, of course he should resign or be fired. He should have been fired after the loss to Honduras (in Montreal). At worst, he had to go after the game in Mexico. I personally sent an email to every media outlet on my mailing list demanding his termination the day after the Mexico game. Surprisingly, the reaction from the media who cover soccer was decidedly mixed at the time....if I resent that email today, I think the reaction might differ.

It is my opinion that any self respecting FA would have dropped the hammer on Dale. Instead, they chose to keep him on because a) they don't want to buy him out due to financial constraints and hiring a replacement would have likely been even more costly.

Of course, Dale has friends in high places and he is further protected by an inexplicably long term contract that runs to 2010. The members of the board who signed off on that contract should also walk the plank for that incredibly bone-headed decision. It could be argued that the mishandling of Dale's contract is even worse than Dale's piss poor performance as manager or the player's poor performance on the pitch. After they totally botched the Nykamp hiring/firing that resulted in a rumoured 7 figure settlement, you would think they would have learned something but clearly not. If ever there was an example of how incompetant the BoD is, agreeing to give Dale a 3 year contract (rather than a more appropriate 1 year contract with automatic extension to 2010 if he made the HEX), especially when they were only negotiating against themselves (since Dale wasn't exactly in high demand at the time) is the most glaring example of how completely in over their heads the Board members are (or maybe they just have no interest in doing what is in the best interest of Canadian soccer).

The 2009 GC will be very interesting. I am anxious to see which players accept the call to suit up for Canada if Mitchell is the one doing the calling.

Again, Merry Christmas V's.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by canucklefan

I was thinking the same, he knows he's too bad, too idiot to coach a team, so this is his last chance to make $$$ as a coach.

He is not an idiot and is quite a pleasant fellow personally, he just doesn't have what it takes to coach at this level or even a few lesser levels.

[tmcmurph]

quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA

I'm pretty sure there will be more than enough players taking leave of the GC 09 while Mitchell's still in charge. You are always going to have guys willing to play so a formal boycott suggestion is pretty much impractical

The players need to speak with one voice on this and other issues. They need to organize. If a bunch of third tier players want to go then they will be embarrassed worse than in Jamaica.

I know some players have milestones to reach (Stalteri getting to the most caps) and they might play but if enough of the top 30 players made a statement it would carry so much more weight than doing it individually.

It doesn't have to be anything rude just a statement of facts: "While we respect the contributions DM has made to Canadian soccer in the past it is clearly time to move on. Until we are serious about winning it is pointless to carry on with business as usual."

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by tmcmurph

The players need to speak with one voice on this and other issues. They need to organize. If a bunch of third tier players want to go then they will be embarrassed worse than in Jamaica.

I know some players have milestones to reach (Stalteri getting to the most caps) and they might play but if enough of the top 30 players made a statement it would carry so much more weight than doing it individually.

It doesn't have to be anything rude just a statement of facts: "While we respect the contributions DM has made to Canadian soccer in the past it is clearly time to move on. Until we are serious about winning it is pointless to carry on with business as usual."

I'm not sure what actual number would constitute "enough," and I just don't see this happening. Besides, if you envision a mass boycott then I think the skipper needs to lead by example and not be playing to achieve the all-time record for caps: that would be a pretty clear statement.