DoyleG Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 THE CANADIAN PRESS Prior to their failed World Cup qualifying campaign, Canadian players talked of the need for change within the Canadian Soccer Association. While there were larger complaints, mostly of the need for better funding, some pointed the finger at the team's travel and training arrangements. "Little details do make a difference," midfielder Julian de Guzman said in September 2007. "Those are the little things that add up and make a difference when you're trying to prepare yourself for this kind of competition," goalkeeper Greg Sutton echoed earlier this month, citing poor training pitches among other issues. "You look at a couple of times the way we travelled last year, we were spending long hours in airports, and long hours in flights and long hours in layovers," he added. "That obviously takes a toll on your body, especially the older guys. You're staying in hotels with average beds compared to nicer beds. It makes a difference. All those things add up." Canada's elite soccer players may not travel like the millionaires that wear the England shirt, but a look at the bottom line shows that the Canadian Soccer Association considerably upgraded travel arrangements for World Cup qualifying. And CSA officials like Peter Montopoli (general secretary) and Morgan Quarry (national team manager) defend the way the team travelled and was treated during qualifying. "I can say in dealing with the players and Paul (Stalteri) in particular as the captain, that we've had those discussions and he was very positive in terms of what the CSA had laid out for the team in terms of the preparation and what the players were asking for from a travel perspective," Montopoli said. "Given what was put forward for this past year, 2008, for the World Cup qualification, we do feel that the organization was solidly behind the team in terms of the preparation phase," he added. Coach Dale Mitchell, while noting the CSA had budgetary limitations, has said he had no complaints about the team's preparation. Stalteri, who has signed with Borussia Monchengladbach of Germany's Bundesliga, has 73 caps and ranks as one of the senior statesmen of the sport in Canada at just 31. He said the CSA lived up to what was bargained over travel. "I can't see a player having a go at the travel arrangements," said the former Spurs fullback, who played in all six qualifying games in the last round. "Let's face it, we didn't qualify for the World Cup because the accommodations and our flights weren't appropriately booked, let's put it that way." "At the end of the World Cup qualifying campaign, as players we can only speak on behalf of what we did, and what we did wasn't good enough in the six games, particularly the games at home when we lost a total of seven points from three games. ... I think most of us will come to the conclusion that we weren't good enough ourselves and the only ones to blame are the players," he added bluntly. Privately, CSA officials are "absolutely gutted and devastated" at the failure to reach the final round of qualifying this time, given the talent at their disposal. They're not about to have a go at their players. But while recognizing change is needed in CSA funding, structure and other matters, they are not willing to take it on the chin when it comes to team arrangements during World Cup qualifying. Players from Europe were flown business class across the Atlantic for the World Cup qualifiers this time, at least while the team was still in contention. That followed a request from players following the first qualifying games against St. Vincent and the Grenadines. In 2004, the team flew business class for World Cup qualifying but that was because the CSA managed to secure upgrades. This time, it paid for the better tickets. Air travel for the Aug. 20 game against Jamaica in Toronto alone cost $100,000, according to figures provided by the CSA. "No player travels in a roundabout way in order to save money on his flight," said Quarry. "In fact it is quite the opposite. If we can get a player to a destination as quickly and comfortably as possible then that is what we do, regardless if it costs us more to fly them direct." After the Sept. 6 game in Montreal, the team flew on a $120,000 charter to Tuxtla Gutierrez and back to ease travel for a Sept. 10 game with Mexico. Flying domestically would have been $80,000 cheaper but would also have involved a 4:30 a.m. wakeup after the Honduras game in Montreal and almost 22 hours of travel with a lengthy layover in Mexico City. The charter from Montreal to Mexico took eight hours, with a stopover in Houston for refuelling. The next two games -- Oct. 11 in San Pedro Sula, Honduras, and Oct. 15 in Edmonton -- also did not come cheap. The team assembled in Florida for a four-day camp prior to flying to Honduras. Just getting goalkeeper Lars Hirschfeld from his club in Romania to Florida and then from Edmonton to Romania cost $12,000. In all, the CSA spent $1.3 million on the men's national team in 2007, not including salaries. In 2008, that figure was closer to $2.4 million. The 2008 breakdown includes a training camp and friendly game against Martinique in January ($143,000), friendly in Estonia ($75,000), friendly against Brazil ($108,000), and World Cup qualifiers -- in St. Vincent and the Grenadines ($213,000), against St. Vincent and the Grenadines in Montreal ($235,000), against Jamaica in Toronto ($376,000), against Honduras in Montreal ($370,000), in Mexico ($233,000), in Honduras ($209,000), against Mexico in Edmonton ($415,000), and in Jamaica ($185,000). The CSA is responsible for all costs involved in World Cup qualifying at home and abroad. That's different from exhibition games, when the host association normally picks up the tab for local transportation, hotel accommodation and meals and often provides a travel subsidy or game fee. In 2008, the CSA paid its team $530,000 in player compensation for the World Cup qualifying games and three friendlies. In 2007, the figure was $350,000 (for the Gold Cup). On the road, the Canadian players share a room and get $10 a day for incidentals. Meals are usually at the hotel but when they eat out, the players get $35 for dinner. Expenses such as taxis to the airport or parking are also covered. Canada stayed at the Hilton in Kingston, Ont., the InterContinental in Toronto, the Meridien in Montreal, the Hilton in Honduras (where they stayed on the VIP floor), the Crowne Plaza in Mexico and the Delta in Edmonton. "We're not staying at the Ritz-Carlton, but we are staying in top-of-the-line hotels," Quarry said. http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2008/12/22/Canada-Cost-0/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Few things: 1) This article is missing the target by about the mile, i'd really like to know the misguided person who wrote it. Reading through this makes it sound like these guys are traveling well beyond their needs, when in reality they just got up to standard with their peers (and i don't mean the world powers). Perhaps we can sponsor this person on a 20 hour three contection economy flight and ask them to go play sports after. 2) Displaying just the total cost of any event by itself is half the story. What were the revenues? What's the breakdown of expenses? What was the percentage increase in travel costs related to the Canadian team? What's the percantage cost of every other category? How much did that go up. How much did revenues increase? Less was spent in 2007 than 2008? No sh!t, it wasn't a qualifying year, of course it was going to be less! Too many assumptions drawn off highly aggregated numbers. The analysis and random facts like "they stayed on the vip floor" are catchy but not really telling me anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Well, you are talking about their peers. Are you aware of the travel arrangements of Honduras and Jamaica? Also, the travel plan between MTL and Chiapas weren't made in order to avoid a 22h trip but to make sure JDG would have enough time to get back from the dancing floor where he was spending the night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 "CSA officials are absolutely gutted and devastated"... They had me fooled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthAfricaOrBust Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by loyola Well, you are talking about their peers. Are you aware of the travel arrangements of Honduras and Jamaica? Also, the travel plan between MTL and Chiapas weren't made in order to avoid a 22h trip but to make sure JDG would have enough time to get back from the dancing floor where he was spending the night! Zing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 The CSA needs to take their share of the blame, but this isn't it. Yes, maybe standards are not up to what Julian would expet with Deportivo or Hutchinson with Copenhagen, but I think I would be safe in saying that the standards were higher than what Jamaica and Honduras got. Just another case of more Canadian players whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hottoddy7 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 I think the complaints were made before qualifying and the writer was pointing out that the players shouldn't and couldn't have such complaints about travel and acommodation during this round of qualifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by masster The CSA needs to take their share of the blame, but this isn't it. Yes, maybe standards are not up to what Julian would expet with Deportivo or Hutchinson with Copenhagen, but I think I would be safe in saying that the standards were higher than what Jamaica and Honduras got. Just another case of more Canadian players whining. The CSA needs to provide porno movies, like FCK does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by masster Just another case of more Canadian players whining. But the players weren't whining about travel arrangements. The only thing even remotely close to a complaint about travel arrangements came from Greg Sutton when he commented about the lack of beds for a guy his size...I don't put a lot of weight into the complaints of the 3rd string keeper. the CSA lived up to its end of the bargain this time. I'm glad to see it. The players got what they wanted...sadly, they didn't perform well on the pitch. re: the comment about the CSA officials being "gutted" by the team's failure...I can assure you that this is definitely true. BTW, I'm willing to bet this piece was written by Neil Davidson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted December 23, 2008 Author Share Posted December 23, 2008 For comparison, the travel rates for federal employees. North America http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pubs_pol/hrpubs/TBM_113/c-eng.asp Internationally http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pubs_pol/hrpubs/TBM_113/d-eng.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Neil Davidson wrote this, didnt he?? http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=capress-soc_canada_cost-41232025&prov=capress&type=lgns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 If they had a coach/manager whom they respected and who had charisma, leadership skills, genuine management ability and the knack of inspiring people to perform beyond their normal level things would have been very different. Regrettably their coach had/has none of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by ag futbol Few things: 1) This article is missing the target by about the mile, i'd really like to know the misguided person who wrote it. Reading through this makes it sound like these guys are traveling well beyond their needs, when in reality they just got up to standard with their peers (and i don't mean the world powers). Perhaps we can sponsor this person on a 20 hour three contection economy flight and ask them to go play sports after. 2) Displaying just the total cost of any event by itself is half the story. What were the revenues? What's the breakdown of expenses? What was the percentage increase in travel costs related to the Canadian team? What's the percantage cost of every other category? How much did that go up. How much did revenues increase? Less was spent in 2007 than 2008? No sh!t, it wasn't a qualifying year, of course it was going to be less! Too many assumptions drawn off highly aggregated numbers. The analysis and random facts like "they stayed on the vip floor" are catchy but not really telling me anything. No the author of this got everything right. Also even though he did not play that well, credit to Stalteri for saying what the other players should be saying as well, "At the end of the World Cup qualifying campaign, as players we can only speak on behalf of what we did, and what we did wasn't good enough in the six games, particularly the games at home when we lost a total of seven points from three games. ... I think most of us will come to the conclusion that we weren't good enough ourselves and the only ones to blame are the players,". I agree with JDG that, "Little details do make a difference". As little details I would include not partying after games especially when you are leaving for another country and game the next day. As others have mentioned we would not have had to worry about a 4:30 am. wakeup call as he would be justing getting in from partying. I know the hotel the Hondurans stayed in in Montreal and it was well below the standard of the one our team stayed in. Revenues from the games are immaterial to the players' performance so that is why they are correctly not mentioned in the article. I think the reason why we are no longer in the WCQ is our players just did not perform up to their capabilities and some of them are probably a bit overrated and simply not good enough for international play. They were decently prepared and received good travel arrangements and accomodations. As much as everyone likes to blame Mitchell (and I think he should not have been hired and now should be fired) I don't think he was that bad either. Our players just failed to show up and play when it counted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Richard If they had a coach/manager whom they respected and who had charisma, leadership skills, genuine management ability and the knack of inspiring people to perform beyond their normal level things would have been very different. Regrettably their coach had/has none of these. If they were proper professional players who were self-motivated, disciplined and played with heart they wouldn't need a babysitter style coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly If they were proper professional players who were self-motivated, disciplined and played with heart they wouldn't need a babysitter style coach. Oh, yeah. **** yeah. Players are robots. May as well be pieces on a chess board. Because you're right, we only ever see Canadian players performing to a different standard for different coaches. /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Grizzly, so I guess Harry Redknapp has nothing to do with 'Spurs revival? A manager contributes to a team's success or failure in a massive way. A great manager leading a mediocre side can achieve wonderful things. A lousy manager blessed with good players can make a horrible mess (again, see juande ramos with 'Spurs as only the most recent example...there have been too many examples to list them all). Just because Mitchell picked his "best" 18 players for the first 3 matches doesn't mean he was doing his job as well as he could or that he even possessed the ability to make best use of his "best" players. He was out of his depth and his players knew it. The team lacked unity and he was a contributing factor in the disharmony. I'm not even convinced the coaching staff was on the same page entirely. I do agree that the players did not play their best. They certainly did not play as a cohesive team. The blame for this must hang over the heads of every single person involved in the MNT group, from players to coaches to admins. You win as a team and you lose as a team. However, I will forever believe that Mitchell was the biggest cancer and it seems like you will always point the finger more squarely at the players. to each his own, I guess... No one will ever change my sincer belief that, with a better manager, this team makes the hex or at least challenges for a spot in the hex to the very last match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Keep in mind that Honduras won the group even with Julio Cesar de Leon bailing on the team due to the appalling conditions which included zero pay and zero injury coverage. Grizzly already mentioned the sub-standard hotel they stayed at in Montreal. I highly doubt their flight arrangements for euro based players were much better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by CanadianSoccerFan Keep in mind that Honduras won the group even with Julio Cesar de Leon bailing on the team due to the appalling conditions which included zero pay and zero injury coverage. Grizzly already mentioned the sub-standard hotel they stayed at in Montreal. I highly doubt their flight arrangements for euro based players were much better My explanation guess is that players in Honduras feel the fans pressure on their shoulder and really wants to win. Here in Canada, the players are waiting for the fans to add them as a friend on facebook and get an invitation for the next party... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 ^ A good point. For countries like Honduras it's considered national duty. There's not going to be much sympathy from citizens of a third world country for players like Julio Cesar de Leon not getting pampered enough. I'm sure a lot of the Honduran players come from such modest backgrounds which allows them to keep it all in perspective. For our players it's a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly If they were proper professional players who were self-motivated, disciplined and played with heart they wouldn't need a babysitter style coach. What they had was a babysitter, not a top rate manager. If what you say is true then all the top teams in Europe and elswhere could play just as well without their managers and we all know that just isn't so. Regrettably the CSA could not or would not pay the freight for a proper, experienced, quality international manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Let's cut to the chase. The reason we choked was because Business Class had no in-flight dancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Richard What they had was a babysitter, not a top rate manager. If what you say is true then all the top teams in Europe and elswhere could play just as well without their managers and we all know that just isn't so. Regrettably the CSA could not or would not pay the freight for a proper, experienced, quality international manager. We had a group of players with ZERO guts. We needed about three Mark Watsons to drag them along. I said it before WCQ and it played itself out that way. Don't know why some of you guys absolve the players of all blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by loyola My explanation guess is that players in Honduras feel the fans pressure on their shoulder and really wants to win. Here in Canada, the players are waiting for the fans to add them as a friend on facebook and get an invitation for the next party... This is one of the better quotes / analogies of the year! And very true. There is no comparaison with the level of widespread support and accountability to the public that a national team like Honduras gets/faces compared to Canada. The example of the support is a good example, I heard of one Honduran supporters who were looking for tickets to that game in Mtl but but balked when hearing that on-line sellers were asking for up to 500$. I think that what happened is that canadians who bought tix to that game saw more value in scalping them. That might be the best explanation as to why so many were present. We reserve that kind of fervour in Canada for tickets to to the Olympic hockey tourny. You just dont turn these kind of things around overnight no matter how well organized you get as supporters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinhaya Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by loyola Well, you are talking about their peers. Are you aware of the travel arrangements of Honduras and Jamaica? Also, the travel plan between MTL and Chiapas weren't made in order to avoid a 22h trip but to make sure JDG would have enough time to get back from the dancing floor where he was spending the night! Loyola - I don't really follow what you are saying about JDG? Are you implying that he is all about partying and less about football? Can we substantiate this as a group? Is this the overall sentiment about JDG within the Voyageurs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by sinhaya Loyola - I don't really follow what you are saying about JDG? Are you implying that he is all about partying and less about football? Can we substantiate this as a group? Is this the overall sentiment about JDG within the Voyageurs? I just think it was unacceptable from him to go partying after the defeat in Montreal against Honduras when we had a game in Chiapas 3 days later. From what I ve seen here, most of the longtime V's were dissapointed with that kind of attitude by Julian, showing some poor leadership in a tough time for our players. But other people here were defending his action by pretending it was his private life and stuff like that. That's a good example of what I was referring to when I alluded to the "facebook friendship" of fans and players in Canada. We aren't exactly acting like English or Argentinian fans would do if their players were caught dancing after a crucial loss in a WCQ game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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