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SteveBeau

St-Louis in USL-1?

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It could also mean that St Louis getting into the MLS is not going to happen this round. Get a USL-1 team going and established while waiting for the mythical MLS to graciously take your $40 million.

I don't know if the area could support 2 pro teams but if they get going now that is a good thing.

Now can we get Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa to see it that way up here?

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I think the Lions are looking to back the Cooper group into a corner if MLS doesn't come through. If Cooper's serious about proceeding with USL pro soccer after a MLS rejection, he'll have to buy the Lions out. If MLS does come through, the Lions can probably back out.

It smacks of a money play to me.

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"USL franchise fees have historically been well under $1 million, while MLS franchise fees are now at some $40 million. Where the MLS might need to fill a 20,000 seat stadium for every game to break even, we’ll be looking at something on the scale of 3-5,000 attendance per game to be profitable.”

Statement says it all. $40 million gets you on your hands and knees in Garbers Pyramid scheme. A pyramid thats about as solid as a deck of cards, given the current economic crisis. MLS like any other pro league is going to compete for consumers "entertainment" dollars. This is going to be a tough sell in many markets.

Thats why I believe The Montreal Impact are better off sitting on the sidelines, and working on making the USL a better League, with a more realistic budget.

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quote:Originally posted by tmcmurph

It could also mean that St Louis getting into the MLS is not going to happen this round. Get a USL-1 team going and established while waiting for the mythical MLS to graciously take your $40 million.

I don't know if the area could support 2 pro teams but if they get going now that is a good thing.

Now can we get Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa to see it that way up here?

The truth is we need a USL one team in Toronto, I wonder if the Lynx held the franchise rights and can step back in with no further payments.

A solid USL one product in Toronto with access to Champions League and Voyageurs Cup sets up a real GTA rivalry, imagine BMO filled when its a USL 1 team playing and appealing to a non-Toronto Scottish market segment.

You would have a home and home with TFC with chances for other such games and if Vancouver goes MLS you get a second MLS value game for Voyaguers cup plus a series of Montreal games in the league, plus Rochester etc. for one and half million a year opearating expenses you could make as much as TFC.

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quote:Originally posted by Trillium

The truth is we need a USL one team in Toronto, I wonder if the Lynx held the franchise rights and can step back in with no further payments.

A solid USL one product in Toronto with access to Champions League and Voyageurs Cup sets up a real GTA rivalry, imagine BMO filled when its a USL 1 team playing and appealing to a non-Toronto Scottish market segment.

You would have a home and home with TFC with chances for other such games and if Vancouver goes MLS you get a second MLS value game for Voyaguers cup plus a series of Montreal games in the league, plus Rochester etc. for one and half million a year opearating expenses you could make as much as TFC.

There has been serious talk about the Lynx going to USL-2 in 2010.

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quote:Originally posted by Mr.Impact

Statement says it all. $40 million gets you on your hands and knees in Garbers Pyramid scheme. A pyramid thats about as solid as a deck of cards, given the current economic crisis. MLS like any other pro league is going to compete for consumers "entertainment" dollars. This is going to be a tough sell in many markets.

If it were a pyramid scheme they wouldn't be putting such a strong emphasis on building soccer specific stadiums and on getting only very wealthy investors who can weather the current economic crisis better than the owners of other aspiring major leagues like the Arena Football League and the National Lacrosse League.

http://www.theworldlink.com/articles/2008/12/16/sports/doc4947da3aeb981045301670.txt?redirect=y

http://chicagoshamrox.com/news/newsreleases/index.html?article_id=10

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quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

There has been serious talk about the Lynx going to USL-2 in 2010.

interesting....that doesn't quite jive with stuff I've heard but who knows, maybe they are setting up to make the jump.

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quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

If it were a pyramid scheme they wouldn't be putting such a strong emphasis on building soccer specific stadiums and on getting only very wealthy investors who can weather the current economic crisis better than the owners of other aspiring major leagues like the Arena Football League and the National Lacrosse League.

http://www.theworldlink.com/articles/2008/12/16/sports/doc4947da3aeb981045301670.txt?redirect=y

http://chicagoshamrox.com/news/newsreleases/index.html?article_id=10

$40 million and THE PROMISE to build a SS stadium gets you in. You could play on ciment for all Garber cares, as long as the $40 million cheque clears.

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quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

If that were true Ottawa and Vancouver would already have been announced as new franchises.

have patience...one of those two cities will almost certainly be announced in about 3-4 weeks.

here's a little news about Ottawa that might not have been noticed if you don't read the Ottawa Sun or Duane Rollins' blog:

http://24thminute.blogspot.com/

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quote:Originally posted by VPjr

have patience...one of those two cities will almost certainly be announced in about 3-4 weeks.

here's a little news about Ottawa that might not have been noticed if you don't read the Ottawa Sun or Duane Rollins' blog:

http://24thminute.blogspot.com/

the guy says in his blog "Yet, as the days pass and it becomes increasingly clear that Ottawa has one of the best bids -- if not the best city"

I don't know how he can realistically say this...The bid includes a proposal for a 110$ million stadium funded mostly by public funds, how does Melnyk plan to obtain those funds in this economic context (the federal government just announced a 30 billion deficit for next year) when the government is apparently already involved in the improvements being planned for Frank Clair Stadium?? It just does not make sense....

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quote:Originally posted by VPjr

interesting....that doesn't quite jive with stuff I've heard but who knows, maybe they are setting up to make the jump.

There was some talk about it on Big Soccer a few months ago. I followed that up with a couple of phone calls out east, and it is being contemplated at this stage.

If the Lynx could gain access to the Voyageurs Cup by stepping up, it may be worth their while.

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quote:Originally posted by relegated

With 13,000 on the waiting list for TFC a Toronto USL1 team seems like a no brainer.

Yah, but nobody wanted to see a Toronto USL team, remember, or have we forgotten so quickly?

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quote:Originally posted by SteveBeau

the guy says in his blog "Yet, as the days pass and it becomes increasingly clear that Ottawa has one of the best bids -- if not the best city"

I don't know how he can realistically say this...The bid includes a proposal for a 110$ million stadium funded mostly by public funds, how does Melnyk plan to obtain those funds in this economic context (the federal government just announced a 30 billion deficit for next year) when the government is apparently already involved in the improvements being planned for Frank Clair Stadium?? It just does not make sense....

I just watched a feature the other day about falling attendances in the NHL, and Ottawa seemed to be one of the clubs having trouble filling seats with fully paying customers. Doesn't seem like a great idea to be moving into a market that can't sell out it's premier sport, esepcially not with economic doom in the longterm forecast. The same would stand for any of the American bids, vis-a-vis their NFL or MLB attendances.

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quote:Originally posted by SteveBeau

the guy says in his blog "Yet, as the days pass and it becomes increasingly clear that Ottawa has one of the best bids -- if not the best city"

I don't know how he can realistically say this...The bid includes a proposal for a 110$ million stadium funded mostly by public funds, how does Melnyk plan to obtain those funds in this economic context (the federal government just announced a 30 billion deficit for next year) when the government is apparently already involved in the improvements being planned for Frank Clair Stadium?? It just does not make sense....

Of the bids still in the running, Ottawa has the fewest questions -- they are all looking for public money (although we really haven't heard anything about Atlanta). Melnyk's proposal is actual pretty modest compared to some of the others. Portland, for instance, is looking for about $85 million to renovate the current park and build a new baseball stadium - and if they are asking for $85 million you can bet they will need $100+ million. This is less than 10 years from the last renovation of the current stadium, which came in close to $40 million. Vancouver's money seems good, but NO ONE in MLS circles is a AT ALL excited by the stadium plan. Miami is a mistake waiting to happen, we know nothing about Atlanta and St. Louis STILL hasn't revealed its investors.

And of course Montreal lost its game of chicken...

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quote:

If the Lynx could gain access to the Voyageurs Cup by stepping up, it may be worth their while.

thanks for the info WF. The idea that the Hartrells would give USL professional soccer another shot astounds me. The idea that they would re-enter at the USL2 level is even more astounding because I don't see how that league will garner enough interest to draw enough people to cover costs (even if the costs are lower than USL1).

As to the concept that a USL2 Lynx could gain automatic entry in the V's Cup, I would find that hard to swallow, especially as a big CSL supporter. I have very serious doubts that USL2 football is better than the upper echelon of CSL (top 6 teams).

If USL2 membership qualifies a team for entry into the V's cup, then the CSL champion should gain entry as well....

I don't want to turn this into an argument about the CSL calling itself Canada's national league. I'm just saying that I don't believe USL2 is a good enough level of soccer to warrant a spot in the V's cup (at least without offering entry to other Tier 2/3 teams through some kind of qualification system).

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The CSL scored a spectacular own goal by having TFC Academy in their league. It speaks volumes that an amateur TFC U-18 team almost made the playoffs. Also worth noting that what is effectively the Impact reserves team finished top in the regular season even if the playoffs didn't quite go their way. Beyond that USL-2 is a national level league while the CSL is a provincial level one.

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quote:Originally posted by nolando

Yah, but nobody wanted to see a Toronto USL team, remember, or have we forgotten so quickly?

Nobody wanted to watch them when they were playing at Centennial Stadium in Etobicoke, which absolutely screamed bush league, and they barely rated a mention in the mainstream media. It would be interesting to see what would happen at BMO Field given the Canadian Championship would involve two games being played there by the Lynx against TFC.

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quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

The CSL scored a spectacular own goal by having TFC Academy in their league. It speaks volumes that an amateur TFC U-18 team almost made the playoffs. Also worth noting that what is effectively the Impact reserves team finished top in the regular season even if the playoffs didn't quite go their way. Beyond that USL-2 is a national level league while the CSL is a provincial level one.

BBTB, I've got to totally disagree with your assessment...did you even see a match involving TFC-A? I know I did and they finished exactly where they belonged...2nd from the bottom. They were only better than the other mostly amateur/fully amateur team (London City).

The only reason they were anywhere near the final playoff spot (in a league that lets 8 out of 11 teams into the playoffs) is because they managed to take 6 points from the first 3 games, (taking advantage of some CSL teams were not yet match fit). Remember, the TFC-A team was essentially the OSA U18 All Star Team....these are supposed to be the "best" u18s in the province and some of them are considered national level players (i.e. Tannous). They trained together all winter, as opposed to most CSL teams that only come together a few weeks before the season kicks off. Their quick start to the season camoflaged the reality that, while they were a lively, athletic bunch, these young men (the supposed cream of the crop in Ontario and who had the benefit of training every day) were not good enough to compete against guys who for are not much older, by and large, and most of whom work day jobs.

this year, it will be interesting to see how TFC-A competes because they might end up loaning some of their younger DEV roster players to TFC-A to keep sharp...

Also, USL2 is hardly national....its a totally regional league that doesn't venture further south than South Carolina and further west than Ohio. And I stand by my belief that the top 6 CSL teams could compete (on talent) in USL2....the quality of play in USL2 is nothing remarkable. USL1 is a totally different story...the quality in USL1 is heads and shoulders better.

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quote:Originally posted by VPjr

this year, it will be interesting to see how TFC-A competes because they might end up loaning some of their younger DEV roster players to TFC-A to keep sharp...

Are they allowed to do that?

I thought they are keeping the TFC-A team completely amateur in order to not mess around with their players' NCAA eligibility.

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quote:Originally posted by relegated

With 13,000 on the waiting list for TFC a Toronto USL1 team seems like a no brainer.

The Lynx fans quickly followed TFC.

Another poster stated USL1 needs a Toronto franchise. Need is a very strong and inaccurate word in this context. Having a "B" franchise barely making money from it's men's club, like the Lynx doesn't sound very stable to me. I would rather see the USL1 in Winnipeg.

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quote:

Of the bids still in the running, Ottawa has the fewest questions -- they are all looking for public money (although we really haven't heard anything about Atlanta). Vancouver's money seems good, but NO ONE in MLS circles is a AT ALL excited by the stadium plan.

I hate to blow your theory out of the water sport, but Vancouver's waterfront stadium proposal is still very much in play. And BC Place will be the ONLY retractable stadium in MLS in the interm. Sorry, but Ottawa has the MOST questions of all the bidders, and they'll be the ONLY one's without a franchise when the 4 teams are announced in '09.

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