CSL Western Expansion 2010

[BrennanFan]

http://www.canadiansoccerleague.ca/news_archive.php?news_id=134164

The Canadian Soccer League is Canada’s only professional soccer league operating in Ontario and Quebec with discussions underway to add a western Canada division of the CSL for kickoff in 2010. The league presently operates a reserve division which can be a first place of entry for some players.

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BS or is there any truth to this?

IMO the CSL is our best bet for the development of a true Canadian pro league. I would hope that any western expansion would attract the best players from the PCSL, VMSL or any other leagues.

[VPjr]

^ the CSL is most certainly having discussion with interested parties about adding a western divison. Whether it happens or not is impossible to impossible to know right now.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

If they manage to fleece well into six figures out of investor groups on the Prairies for what will amount to little more than the right to use the CSL name and have the winner of the Prairies competition paying all the money to fly to Ontario to get knocked out in the early rounds of the playoffs most years I'll laugh my head off. At some point the would be investors and/or the provincial associations that will have to grant playing out permission might notice that they are entering an OSA rather than a CSA sanctioned league and the penny may drop that they have as much right to set up a league with a grandiose title as the teams in Ontario do and can save themselves a lot of money by simply doing their own thing and lobbying for the CSA to set up an Open Cup in place of the current 10 provincial amateur winners only setup to properly determine the national champion.

[Richard]

^ Yet the CSL is listed as Canada's national league in the Associations section on the FIFA website! On whose authority other than the CSL's? Nobody has been willing or able to answer that question and I have asked several people many times, including the CSA. I certainly do not regard the CSL as my national league, its very much an Ontario thing.

[VPjr]

I don't know how the CSL managed to pull off the coup of having FIFA list it as Canada's national pro league but good on 'em....it's helped them gain alot more recognition and has resulted in lots of interest from foreign players.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

May just be a case of FIFA's webmaster not wanting to leave things blank and finding the CSL on a google search. The only national championship that rates a mention on the CSA website is the amateur one:-

http://www.canadasoccer.com/eng/natchamps/index.asp?sub=3

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

^ Yet the CSL is listed as Canada's national league in the Associations section on the FIFA website! On whose authority other than the CSL's? Nobody has been willing or able to answer that question and I have asked several people many times, including the CSA. I certainly do not regard the CSL as my national league, its very much an Ontario thing.

Richard, crying about it is not going to push the PCSL to where the CSL is right now. If you want to change things, bring your league up to semi-pro standard and then get together with CSL.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

I don't know how the CSL managed to pull off the coup of having FIFA list it as Canada's national pro league but good on 'em....it's helped them gain alot more recognition and has resulted in lots of interest from foreign players.

But it is not legitimate and frankly doesn't do the CSL reputation any good outside Ontario, quite the contrary. No matter what the CSL may wish, reality is very different.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

Richard, crying about it is not going to push the PCSL to where the CSL is right now. If you want to change things, bring your league up to semi-pro standard and then get together with CSL.

My comment has nothing whatsoever to do with the PCSL or any other league in Canada. The CSL is a long way away from being Canada's national professional league no matter what its aspirations might be. It is certainly not recognised as such outside its relatively small Ontario support base. Representing itself as such is false advertising at the very least.

[Artoo]

I think that the CSL is the closest thing to a National League. It has a team in Quebec and used to have (briefly) a Winnipeg team. Canadian hockey teams that formed the nucleus of what eventually became the NHL were also based in Ontario and Quebec. When the original CSL split up in 1992 some teams went on to play in what became the USL (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver) and other teams went on to play in what became the current CSL (North York, Winnipeg).

I agree that it would be neat to see some cooperation/competition between the PCSL and the CSL.

[Richard]

The CSL is no more a national league than any other league in Canada. They are a good, regional Ontario league with grand and as yet unfulfilled aspirations, that's all.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Not accurate to say it had a team in Winnipeg, Artoo. That was the CNSL, which was a merger between the real original CSL and the NSL after the Blizzard, 86ers and Impact moved to the APSL in 1993. The CPSL (which only recently started using the CSL name) was formed later in 1998 by the OSA when the CNSL had effectively folded due to a lack of teams (London City, St Catherines Roma and Toronto Croatia were allowed in from the CNSL) and was originally going to be called the Ontario Professional Soccer League. The CPSL was based on a one team per district association franchise basis in Ontario.

[Artoo]

Ahhhh! Thanks for the explanation. What a confusing story :-).

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

But it is not legitimate and frankly doesn't do the CSL reputation any good outside Ontario, quite the contrary. No matter what the CSL may wish, reality is very different.

But the reality is that the CSL is the ONLY league where most players are paid to play (even if its not much). If other leagues are paying players to play (under the table of course), they should admit it so that the CSL can't continue to claim to be the only professional league in Canada.

So, while they might not be Canada's national league, it is Canada's only league that promotes itself as being even remotely professional.

I know that this FIFA designation might upset some people but I personally applaud the CSL for pulling it off, assuming they had something to do with the granting of this designation.

[Richard]

^ I don't disagree that its quite a coup for the CSL whether they are responsible for it or not but the CSL is nowhere near being Canada's national league, whether or not they pay their players. There are other leagues in Canada where players receive payment. Even if the CSL was not responsible for its inclusion by FIFA, they are certainly aware as we know the CSL commissioner reads this forum apart from anything else, and have chosen to do nothing about it. It is egregious and misleading self promotion.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

^ I don't disagree that its quite a coup for the CSL whether they are responsible for it or not but the CSL is nowhere near being Canada's national league, whether or not they pay their players. There are other leagues in Canada where players receive payment. Even if the CSL was not responsible for its inclusion by FIFA, they are certainly aware as we know the CSL commissioner reads this forum apart from anything else, and have chosen to do nothing about it. It is egregious and misleading self promotion.

Canada has no national league. But it does have 1 league where it is acknowledged that players are paid to play.

I'd have a problem with the CSL receiving this designation if there were other leagues in Canada that even made a small attempt to promote themselves as professional....it would be good for the sport in Canada.

until someone else steps up and decides to officially go semi-pro (or better yet, fully professional), I see no problem with shameless self-promotion, especially if it helps the CSL's product continue to improve.

[Richard]

My point here is not whether the CSL really qualifies as 'professional' in the grand scheme of things (and I question that too but it's a separate issue). It is that the CSL is a long, long way from qualifying to be regarded as Canada's national league in any way, shape or form, no matter what aspirations Cary Kaplan may have for his league or what it's few Ontario fans might like to believe. There is more to Canada than Ontario

I have no problem with self-promotion and I wish the CSL well for what it is, but I do object to gross misrepresentation and false advertising.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

It would be more accurate to link to MLS for Canada. Until the CSL is actually sanctioned by the CSA as the national pro league and there is a setup similar to New Zealand where there is a national semi-pro league taking in the major cities on both islands in addition to the Wellington Pheonix being fully pro in Australia's A League Richard is 100% correct on this.

[Richard]

^ Thank you. My point entirely.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

There is more to Canada than Ontario

What?????

C'mon...you're kidding right???

LOL

quote:Originally posted by Richard

I have no problem with self-promotion and I wish the CSL well for what it is, but I do object to gross misrepresentation and false advertising.

Well, i think someone else is going to have to step up to convince FIFA to yank the title away from the CSL and I don't foresee that happening. i don't disagree that its a stretch to consider the CSL a national league but as a supporter of the CSL, I'm glad they have the designation because its been very good for the league's profile.

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

There is more to Canada than Ontario

There's more to Canada soccer wise than BC Richard, believe it or not. I get your point and I seriously believe that it was a lucky moment for the CSL when somebody at FIFA decided to select the CSL as the national league. I honestly believe they went through some kind of minimum requirements to select national leagues for every country, obviously to them the CSL fulfill those requirements.

Now Richard, since they (FIFA) decided to select the CSL as our national league and showed that Canada at list has one instead of leaving a blink space in that section, why don't you work towards making sure the CSL becomes (according to your views) a true national league with the inclusion of BC and other provinces in the west, instead of constantly putting stones on the way of progress. Believe it or not Richard having a national league included in the FIFA website IS PROGRESS since we didn't have one ever before.

Please Richard if you love the sport (and I know you do) put your personal grudge against the CSL aside, stop spending money in long distance phone calls to Zurich and work towards unity and progress, so soccer can become once and for all the professional game we all hope to enjoy in Canada. Thank you.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

You have no way of knowing what the basis for FIFA doing that was. The webmaster at FIFA maybe was mislead by the name into believing it is more than a provincial league and very few people beyond a few internet obsessives like us are probably even aware of that page's existence on the FIFA website. It wouldn't surprise me if they link to the Canadian Championship in future. It has a much better claim to be the national pro league given CONCACAF Champions League qualification (and by extension potential access to FIFA's Club World Championship) is at stake even if the number of games involved is very limited.

[Eric]

^ Of course I have no way of knowing what the basis for FIFA doing that was, but neither do you. When you said the CSL is a provincial league, what do you mean by that? cause as far as I know Quebec is a different province than Ontario and they participate in the CSL.

I don't know if you're from BC too, but you should understand that if the next national league in Canada doesn't include BC, it will still be call a national league around the world and no body will care if BC is part of it or not. Just like many provinces are not part of the NHL or the CFL etc.

BC is not the fountain of life for soccer in Canada and the rest of the country can do very well with out it thank you very much, in case a true national league is form in the near future.

[ted]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

I don't know if you're from BC too, but you should understand that if the next national league in Canada doesn't include BC, it will still be call a national league around the world and no body will care if BC is part of it or not. Just like many provinces are not part of the NHL or the CFL etc.

Well I am from BC, what does that matter? I'm not allowed to have an opinion? I cannot contribute to a discussion? I cannot understand why people from TO are sometimes considered arrogant. []

The point has been made before that a league that exists in only one or two provinces and claims to be a "national" league is a joke. Think about it for a minute. If BC created a league with one or two teams in Alberta and paid players $50 per game would you consider that a legitimate national, professional league? I think not.

Maybe the CSL will be a national, professional league someday, but today, in 2008 and according to the plans for 2009 they are neither. They are a regional semi-pro league and there is nothing wrong with that. Arguing that because someone says they want to make the sky purple one day that the sky IS purple today does not make it so.

[Artoo]

I still say we should have Victoria United play Serbian White Eagles to settle this once and for all :-). Or alternatively... I dare both the CSL and PCSL to be the first league to include Winnipeg :-).