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Let think conserve..CSA programs to get the cut.


hamiltonfan

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After looking at the CSA budget thread, regardless if it’s the real thing or not, I realized how tight the CSA budge is. Our number one focus like always should be to get back to the World Cup, and been able to supply the team with proper resources and funds to do so. Let’s do some crunching for the CSA, maybe they’re lurking out there and will listen…ha ya right.

Do we really need to be spending, or waste, so much on a Beach soccer team? Not too sure about you but I’d rather the CMNT have another minicamp or two more friendly’s before the next WCQ. I’d axe the men’s Olympic squad as well. Why bother spending 150-200K on this team. I really don’t see a point, we will never be competitive with that type of budget. Have the team come back when we make a WC.

Thoughts??

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^ when I reviewed that Budget document, I was wondering why they would allocate any money for the Olympic Team in 2009 (or 2010 for that matter) when that team, for all intents and purposes, does not exist? do they have to pay the IOC some kind of annual fee?

i agree that we do not need to spending money on Beach soccer and, although I love Futsal, I really can't call it a priority. I think that category also included funding for disabled programs but I'm not sure.

The only way you can make intelligent recommendations about where to save money would be to know what types of expenses go into each category.

Where, for instance, does the Nykamp payment get slotted into? Admin?

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quote:Originally posted by piltdownman

The men’s Olympic squad is a step towards the mens team. Cut that and you are hurting the men's team two years down the line. If your going to cut anything it should be Beach football .. that and admin ... but I doubt they will cut that.

With the bulk of players in Europe, making the Olympics is always going to be long shot for Canada. Add to that, the fact that getting players released is always going to be a problem; moreso for the talented ones who the clubs want to keep. Thirdly, since olypmic play only occurs every four years, there are no other matches or events of any significance at any other period in between therefore, its tough to allocate resources for coaching, preparation.. etc to sit around for four years and wait for something like three matches to be played. Fourthly, its an extremely tough tourny to qualify for because there are only two spots up for grabs in Concacaf and sides like the US and Mex have so much more depth and domestic talent to choose from than Canada.

Finally, i disagree that the Olympic program is step towards the Mens senior team. The squads that we fielded for this event alway end up being some makeshift squad of players that the CSA is able to scrownge up at the last minute and who are available becasue they are either without a club or in College. Contrast that with the US who can field a team who are all on profession clubs ( mostly MLS), and have prep time because they are, for teh most part in their off season . The last round of Olympic qualifying, we sent players who were just out of college and a few part time TFC players whereas the US fielded a team ( all profesionals) comprised of players like EDU and WYNNE who were both starters on TFC. I dont think that there was any overlap waht so ever between the last Olympic team we fielded asnd the most recent MNT.

Until there is real depth in talent in canadian soccer, the olmpic program is a luxury that we cant afford. I think that by obligation to the COA, there will always be an olympic program of some sort.

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quote:Originally posted by Free kick

With the bulk of players in Europe, making the Olympics is always going to be long shot for Canada. Add to that, the fact that getting players released is always going to be a problem; moreso for the talented ones who the clubs want to keep. Thirdly, since olypmic play only occurs every four years, there are no other matches or events of any significance at any other period in between therefore, its tough to allocate resources for coaching, preparation.. etc to sit around for four years and wait for something like three matches to be played. Fourthly, its an extremely tough tourny to qualify for because there are only two spots up for grabs in Concacaf and sides like the US and Mex have so much more depth and domestic talent to choose from than Canada.

Finally, i disagree that the Olympic program is step towards the Mens senior team. The squads that we fielded for this event alway end up being some makeshift squad of players that the CSA is able to scrownge up at the last minute and who are available becasue they are either without a club or in College. Contrast that with the US who can field a team who are all on profession clubs ( mostly MLS), and have prep time because they are, for teh most part in their off season . The last round of Olympic qualifying, we sent players who were just out of college and a few part time TFC players whereas the US fielded a team ( all profesionals) comprised of players like EDU and WYNNE who were both starters on TFC. I dont think that there was any overlap waht so ever between the last Olympic team we fielded asnd the most recent MNT.

Until there is real depth in talent in canadian soccer, the olmpic program is a luxury that we cant afford. I think that by obligation in canada, there will always be an olympic program

Jakovic

Ledgerwood

Ornoch

Johnson

Hainault

(Hemming, peters, jackson as well)

all these guys got big game do or die experience against concacaf rivals, under concacaf reffing. these guys will all be part of our next world cup run. olympic qualifying should not be cut. if we do cut the olympics, it would be shameful and embarrassing.

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^ cutting the Olympic team is not going to happen. I would just like to know why any money would be invested in that program in a non-olympic year.

There is no "olympic team" coach right now. Dasovic got paid on a short term contract basis to lead the team earlier this year.

In 2011-2012, we should be spending some money on this team, but not in 2009-2010. Every penny counts

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I think it would be a mistake to cut the U23 budget as this is the natural progression path to the Senior team. It's also an important part of program development as it provides opportunities to cap players. If we expand the budget and get some friendlies for this group of 89-92 born players then we help foster the next core of our Sr. program. Even without qualifying we still provide the 89's and 90's some games together a full 3 years after their U20 cycle ends next year! There are already 2 players we know who might slip leave us if we don't have a vessel to scoop them up before the Jamaicans do.

Even without getting our top players released this year we still had Will Johnson, Andrew Ornoch, Andre Hainault and Nik Ledgerwood on the field. In 2004 we had Julian De Guzman fly from Germany to join Rob Friend and a few others (too lazy to look them up). I argue that the only reason the U23's doesn't act as more of a gateway for us is because we neglect the program. And with more and more of our young players playing with Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal we will likely see a stronger, more professional (and domestic) Olympic Team in 2012 than at any other time in recent memory.

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Perhaps the question should be, what funding is required to improve the standard of soccer in Canada? Dream big, and then go out and chase down the dollars. I know that sounds a tad too head-in-the-clouds, but seriously, why are we discussing cutting the budget, or reallocating funds by slashing programming?

The CSA is netting less than $2M for sponsorships? We have over 850,000 registered players in this country!

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quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan

Jakovic

Ledgerwood

Ornoch

Johnson

Hainault

(Hemming, peters, jackson as well)

all these guys got big game do or die experience against concacaf rivals, under concacaf reffing. these guys will all be part of our next world cup run. olympic qualifying should not be cut. if we do cut the olympics, it would be shameful and embarrassing.

Well, they got play three games over a week in the span of four years. I dont know how much that counts as experience. But consider also the kind of players that a side like the US was able to field and what was available. theie players were much more settled in their pro careers ane Clearly, the jury is still out on some or many on that list in regards to to development or potential as internations who can elevate us past our rivals.

Do you see anyone on that list whose potential you can compare to someone like Wynne or Edu?

If we had more domestic pro sides with players in that age category, then things might be different. If Canada could reasonably expect to count on qualifying for teh olympics then I could see where the experience would be invaluable. But given circumstances, I ahve my doubts.

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What is so sacred about futsal that you would keep it in at the expense of our U23 program. Can the futsal, beach crap and the CP program. I'd rather see money put into the Homeless WC than any of those 3 programs.

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We lost Dan Fernandes to Portugal because of their U23 program. If we'd had a running U23 program might it have made a difference? Maybe, maybe not.

Steven Vitoria chose to play for Portugal in the 2007 U20WC, he was approached by Dasovic for the Olympic team and was responsive to the invite, but could not since he'd turned 21 already. If we had had adequate preparation we could have stolen him back from Portugal. Whether we wanted him back from a V's standpoint is another matter, but...

Taylor Lord is now with the Jamaican U20's because he was not called for Canada's U20 camp in Switzerland. We can steal him back before he turns 21 sometime in 2011, but we'll need a U23 team that's training and playing competitive games to do so (i do realize there's no guarantee he'll want to come back). Same with David Hoilett, after he sees how poorly run the Jamaican Fed runs it's youth programs maybe he'll change his mind if we have a functioning U23 program?

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I am not certain, but if the CSA dropped the men's Olympic team it might have an adverse effect on the funding they receive from Sport Canada. Being part of a sport in the Olympic boosts funding for many Canadian sports federations despite the fact that some of them don't actually qualify teams for the Olympic Games.

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I don't see the Olympic side as a stepping stone for the WC side. Until we can properly run an Olympic team, like the USA does, it would be worth scrapping the team. It’s a small step backwards, but the CSA has to everything possible to take that huge leap forward to the World Cup.

I do have some sort of respect for the Fustal game. Really helps with footwork. On the other hand, I could careless about a Fustal national team. If there is any money going into this it should be for youth to be able to train during offseason.

CUTS</u>

Mens Olimpics- $150 000

Beach/Fustal- $350 000

That’s an extra half million dollars annual to the CMNT. Let’s get it up to 750K with some cut back to the women’s program, the U20 world cup is going to be over soon so it seems obvious that team shouldn’t be getting as much in 09.

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quote:Originally posted by gwallace76

Not to ignite an old debate, but I can't help but notice that the woman's actual from 07 appears to be 45% more than the men's team actual. I'm willing to venture that we're the only country in the world that spent more on the woman's senior team than the men's senior team in 07.

WP Seniors -

This is what I understand from last season interviews on the WP budget -

The Sports Canada $ (not AAP $)comes into the CSA for the Women's Program based on performance & goes out again.

Notice there is no mention of Olympic events (Olympics & Pan Am) $ for the WP. That was covered by the COC & others directly.

Kerfoot sponsorship admin'ed outside of the CSA

WP U17 & 20's -

Both these teams qualified for their respective Women's WC's yet compared to the MP they got respectively (-$94K) & (-$1019K)

U20 Kerfoot sponsorship admin'ed outside of the CSA

MP FIFA U20 Hosting -

Considering that the CSA got $23.6M+ why did they need to spend an extra $1110K out of this player fee budget?

IMO there is definitely a lack of $ for all NT programs & what makes it worse is how it is managed.

Overall the CSA is a mom & pop NSO being poorly run on the taxation that comes from the kids. Yet, what programs do the kids get for their taxes?

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All the mens and womens youth national teams should be kept. I think this is a no-brainer. Find the money to make them work.

Its programs like Beach Soccer and Futsal that are frivolous.

The Men's Olympic team has to be kept. I'm not sure why people are putting it on the chopping block. Money only has to be spent on the Olympic program 1 out of every 4 years. So you technically aren't even budgeting for it 75% of the time. Plus if we ever did manage to make the Olympics it would be great exposure for the game. Remember, we were one game away from making the most recent Olympics.

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quote:Originally posted by jpg75

Atleast one person on this board seems to be sane.

We should ask our players to beg for money in the street before we think about cutting program like the U-23's or the U-17's...

We can argue about the benefit of such programs all we want but not having a program at all would be a tragedy.

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Futsal frivolous?? Only in this country.... We should be putting all our resources into futsal after all we'd only have to find 6 to 8 quality players to compete at the world level... [:o)]

Seriously as someone already said we shouldn't be cutting anything this is about the proper allocation of resources you want to cut something get rid of the provincial associations (put all that money towards our national programs instead of another layer of bureaucracy) and if you want to make cuts at the CSA level attack the administration not the athletes...

Besides futsal is a great developmental game that fits the existing infrastructure in Canada well and should be pushed even more at all levels... [8D]

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quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

All the mens and womens youth national teams should be kept. I think this is a no-brainer. Find the money to make them work.

Its programs like Beach Soccer and Futsal that are frivolous.

The Men's Olympic team has to be kept. I'm not sure why people are putting it on the chopping block. Money only has to be spent on the Olympic program 1 out of every 4 years. So you technically aren't even budgeting for it 75% of the time. Plus if we ever did manage to make the Olympics it would be great exposure for the game. Remember, we were one game away from making the most recent Olympics.

That's the problem though, to have a well run U23 program you can't just fund it the year of the Olympics. You'll never give the players adequate prep. time to make an impact in Q. Their needs to be a camp 2 years prior (1 year after the U20 cycle ends) and then a few camps the year prior to the Olympics. So for this group of '89's and '90's there should be a camp in 2010 (maybe play against the US or Mexico)and then a few more in 2011. The Mexicans played over 10 games to prep. for the last go round and the CA nations had to go through pre-Q which helped them alot. We need to mitigate our disadvantage...

BTW, i was being sarcastic about cutting the U17's. That's like arguing to cut Jr. Kindergarten instead of University programs, they're both essential.

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