FutureStarCSL Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Whats the best way csl can be a professional league? Then maybe sumone can deliver it to Gary Kaplan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytownsoccerfan Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 1)Have the league set up out late nov. 2)Release the schedule early jan. 3)Max 2 teams in the gta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 If your definition of professionalism involves the players having soccer as their primary income source I think the best thing they could do is drop the pretense and be honest about what they are. 1. Pro/rel to and from the OSL and other top leagues across southern Ontario. 2. Stop having franchise territories to block multiple teams outside the GTA. Let what happens on the field of play determine it. 3. Lobby for inclusion in the Ontario Cup and National Championships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureStarCSL Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 1)soo you saying, top 2 teams in OSL make it to CSL. Bottom 2 get regulated to OSL 2) Dont know what you saying about franchise territories,do you mean like stop with just GTA teams. There should only be like 2 or 3 anyways and let like kitchener,cambridge,guelph and hamilton have teams. Is that what your saying? 3) I agree with number 3 4) league should step late nov so that teams can have try-outs in dec 5)schedule should for sure be realeased early Any more great ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard If your definition of professionalism involves the players having soccer as their primary income source I think the best thing they could do is drop the pretense and be honest about what they are. 1. Pro/rel to and from the OSL and other top leagues across southern Ontario. 2. Stop having franchise territories to block multiple teams outside the GTA. Let what happens on the field of play determine it. 3. Lobby for inclusion in the Ontario Cup and National Championships. I totally agree with point #2. The idea that a group in Mississauga might have to pay Croatia some sort of compensation to set up a CSL club in Mississauga is just plain stupid, especially when the Croatians are not Mississauga's club...they just play in Mississauga (for now....Iceland is an entirely innapropriate facility for the league) I don't really care if they play Ontario Cup or in the National Championships. However, I would definitely like to see some of the premier senior amateur clubs (i.e OSL / WOSL / etc..) form a CSL 2nd division and then have a promotion/relegation system. I don't think that will fly because they are trying to sell franchises rather than grow the league organically but I personally would find this extremely interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 ^ Selling franchises is the 'American way'. There is no major sport in the USA or Canada with professionalism in the top ranks which has promotion and relegation because all professional sport is franchise based versus the organic structures that exist in the old world countries and elswhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 We are not talking about major sport here we are talking about the CSL. I think a good analogy would be that in Australia the top pro leagues at the national level in the various sports do the American style franchise thing but at the state level they still have the standard European style pro/rel league structure in soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 quote:Originally posted by FutureStarCSL 1)soo you saying, top 2 teams in OSL make it to CSL. Bottom 2 get regulated to OSL Along those lines but maybe not quite as clear cut as that because in practice the OSL does not cover Windsor, London, Kitchener and Ottawa. Even at the CSL level I think regional conferences are needed to keep travel manageable as otherwise it is very difficult for teams outside the GTA. quote:2) Dont know what you saying about franchise territories,do you mean like stop with just GTA teams. There should only be like 2 or 3 anyways and let like kitchener,cambridge,guelph and hamilton have teams. Is that what your saying? What I mean is any club from anywhere across southern Ontario should be able to work their way up to the very top based on what they do on the field of play rather than in the boardroom. As VPjr correctly pointed out this can actually be a problem in the GTA as well as outside it. Not much chance of it ever happening given all the vested interests involved unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeltfc91 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 show highlights on the score, sportsnet, tsn Cut out international division and TFC Academy Add a couple more teams in Quebec Add Winnepeg (help out with travel and other accomadations) This promotes coast to coast 1 division Pay all players Get some small soccer specific stadiums Televise big games on CBC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureStarCSL Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 I like these idea's, do you thing they could work? That is the thing, why couldn't a person on this site become the owner of the league and make it professional? As these idea's could make it professional, I know this is a long shot but maybe we should have huge fun raiser and create a professional league. There are people on the forum who knows way to much to be sitting back and letting canadian soccer stay bad. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 quote:Originally posted by FutureStarCSL I like these idea's, do you thing they could work? why couldn't a person on this site become the owner of the league and make it professional? when I win the 6/49 lotto, I will do just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytownsoccerfan Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 michaeltfc91 Ncaa players can't be paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytownsoccerfan Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 michaeltfc91 Ncaa players can't be paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeltfc91 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 ^ Sorry forgot about that Still most players should be paid in order to actually be professional What about my other ideas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 CSL teams playing in an Ontario amateur cup will help create a more professional status for the league?? I don't seem to like that idea and I'm sure most people within the league would agree. On the other hand, if the top tier teams of the OSL along with a few additional teams in Quebec would create a CSL2 with promotion and relegation that would be another milestone achievement for professional soccer within the last half decade. I really don’t see that happening unless we somehow can get the attention for Cary to put some real interested in this and relax worrying about the International division, something that will realistically never benefit soccer the way a CSL2 would with promotion and relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 The reality is that some of the top Ontario Cup teams are as good as CSL teams and sometimes pay their players under the table, while some CSL teams actually do not pay their players at all despite being in what purports to be a pro league. Top elite amateur and CSL teams both tend to train two evenings a week to prepare for a weekend game so there is no real difference in approach. The whole professional/amateur split is a bogus one based on the antiquated notions of amateurism that the Olympic movement used to go in for. Having the best possible quality of soccer is the way to enhance the CSL. Pro/rel does that by replacing the dead wood and no hopers every season with new ambitious clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard The reality is that some of the top Ontario Cup teams are as good as CSL teams and sometimes pay their players under the table, while some CSL teams actually do not pay their players at all despite being in what purports to be a pro league. Top elite amateur and CSL teams both tend to train two evenings a week to prepare for a weekend game so there is no real difference in approach. The whole professional/amateur split is a bogus one based on the antiquated notions of amateurism that the Olympic movement used to go in for. Having the best possible quality of soccer is the way to enhance the CSL. Pro/rel does that by replacing the dead wood and no hopers every season with new ambitious clubs. I can't argue with that logic. One little issue (but which can be dealt with) is that there is a fair bit of cross polination between OSL and CSL rosters. Players would have to pick just one team, but I think that is not necessarily a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 True enough, but I'm telling you there are teams out they that are paying players, many more than the OSL. You are 100% correct that there are top OSL teams that could play in the CSL and do quite well in the league. But in no way will the league become more "professional" playing in the Ontario Cup...and thats what this thread's about. Plus, there is no a chance in HELL the OSA would ever let that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 How many games played in the OSL versus the CSL each season? This is also a consideration where the OSL players are concerned, they have jobs, families and other non-soccer commitments and may not be willing/able to commit to a much longer season with heavier travel requirements which may mean a promoted OSL team would lose key players if promoted. Would an OSL club be permitted to decline promotion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Well thats obviosuly the case with many CSL players as we have seen teams show up with only 11 players on several different occasion. That kind of stuff is something else the CSL has to get a hold of. But back to the main point,if something like this would go through, the second CSL league would be made up of teams and players with a common goal of being promoted to the CSL. Just talking about this gets me thinking of why this can't happen. I've played in youth leagues around North America with pro/reg. no reason we can get this set up. Cary would you like to comment??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.T. Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Guys let's get serious - you can't introduce pro/rel into an existing franchise system - never happened, never will... Regardless of what we perceive the value of the league to be, these current owners paid $10K,$20K,$50K whatever to become part of this league. Do you think they are going to open it up to inclusion by promotion? Do you think OSL-level teams will pay an expansion fee for the possibiliy of promotion? Do you think existing owners would agree to relegation? (remember, the owners make the decisions, not Cary) Franchise based leagues with little/no other revenues (tickets, merchandise, tv) are kind of like pyramid schemes. The only way you make any money is when you convince someone else to fork out the expansion fee. In order to do what is being proposed here, someone would have to buy out all the owners, blow it up and start over... Anyone have some $100,000 dollar bills lying around!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 ^ That too of course but I assumed your point was so obvious that everybody was just blue sky speculating. And if you think a CSL franchise comes that cheap L.T. I have to wonder what you've been smoking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.T. Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I was talking about how much I assumed the existing teams paid - not what they're asking for now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 As Richard correctly says, the idea of Pro/Rel in CSL is a pipe dream but it is a lovely little pipe dream nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Pipe dream in Canada...ya. Have the expansion fee to enter in the CSLII half of that to enter into the CSL. Two teams who win the league do not have to pay any fee to move on up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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