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When will TFC be competitive ?


footnotsaysoccer

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quote:Originally posted by footnotsaysoccer

I might be missing something among the previous posts, but do you think TFC will be competitive enough anytime soon, maybe its third season ? If coach and manager will be the same and nothing special on players side, what majic can we expect then ?

When the hire a coach of quality who can use the players a new General Manager finds with getting bungs from the buys.

When is Mo's annual recruitment trip to Copacabana and Ponte Ronaldina ?

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When what freezes over? ;)

I had hoped they would continue their early season form right through but they did their start fast and fade even faster routine again. Two years in a row now. They have improved on the total points, wins etc but still missed the playoffs and seemed uninterested a lot of the time.

As long as they keep grabbing 30+ players they will be on a year to year hope for some chemistry and players to stay healthy. It might work but year 3 (next year) is crunch time. Make the playoffs!

Some of the players have worked out. I do like AG but for every one that works out they seem to get two that don't (Cunny & Ruiz).

We will see what they do in the off season but for all of Mo's promises of a DP the TFC are a long way from having that one magic bullet do much for them.

Competititve? Who knows. Make the playoffs by hook or by crook? Next year hopefully. Good luck in 2009.

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quote:Originally posted by Trillium

When the hire a coach of quality who can use the players a new General Manager finds with getting bungs from the buys.

Yup. I'll never be a TFC fan (maybe I'll cheer for them if they get to play in the CCL someday), but it seems to me that soccer is one of the sports where the HC is so important (see Mitchell...).

The Caps hired Thordarson: they won the USL title. The Impact hired Limniatis: they got a place in the CCL and reached the QF. TFC hired Carver: they... they... they [xx(].

Does he get along fine with the players ? Does he get any respect from them at all ? Cause you need one of these answer to be yes if you're to have any hope of coaching a team for some time. I don't really know about Thordarson on this, but in JL's case, the second answer is OBVIOUSLY YES. Usually, getting along fine with the players is a less succesful of a method then the "respect" one, but at least it buys you some time for your job as well as in terms of success on the field. Both answers for Mitchell are NOOOOOOOOOOO and he will have to step down for this (as we all hope he's gonna do so).

Maybe Carver's case isn't as extreme, but when I watched some parts of TFC games this season, the players looked so heartless !!! Like most of our MNT during this WCQ run. This ain't just about pride or confidence in yourself, this is about TRUE RESPECT towards your coach. Sure, Limniatis is a great motivator, but I think the real reason why Impact players play with so much more heart is they respect him profoundly for his complete dedication to the game and his squad. When he's sent off, even for some stupid reason, the players feel he's in the game and wants to win it at all costs.

So my advice would be to fire Carver, even before Johnston. Sure Johnston is respnsible for the squad on the field, but ANY REALLY GOOD COACH knows how to build a winning team out of nothing. JL's record in games where he played his B-team IS AS GOOD as his record with the A-team. That's what you're missing in TO.

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And how is their training ?

Does their coach knows what they need to improve and win games and does he build appropriate program ? Or does he just run average drills with little or no sense?

How about their set pieces, do we see good preparation and creativeness?

By the way, does anyone know their pre-season training schedule and if any of it will be open to public ?

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quote:Originally posted by tmcmurph

I had hoped they would continue their early season form right through but they did their start fast and fade even faster routine again. Two years in a row now.

Say what?

TFC did not 'start fast' in 2007. They lost their first four games without scoring a single goal!

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TFC has all resources in the world to be competitive in MLS and CCL next year. (No offense to Impact fans, but you guys are awful to watch...only reason why you guys are winning in CCL because the teams you're playing against either are awful or aren't in midseason form like you guys are right now...it would be interesting to see in Quarterfinals how Impact play against teams who are in midseason form)

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^ I agree with "TFC has all the resources in the world to be comptetitive in MLS and CCL next year".

With the Montreal part I disagree, they have exceeded all expectations and played very well having to play with tired players. For a USL roster they are very deep. Obviously i am praying for TFC to win the V-Cup and for us to win CCL, but MOntreal has done Canada well

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quote:Originally posted by Rudi

Say what?

TFC did not 'start fast' in 2007. They lost their first four games without scoring a single goal!

I was referring to their first half vs second half performance. That may not be what people think of as a start. Let me rephrase myself "they play good for the first half of the year".

2007 first 15 games = 5 wins, 3 ties, 7 losses

2007 second 15 games= 1 win, 5 ties, 11 losses

So from 40% points taken (18 out of 45) to 18% (8 out of 45).

I sit corrected .. sort of .. well maybe not .. ;)

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Yeah, thanks. Why this Impact bashing ?

quote:Originally posted by TFC07

TFC has all resources in the world to be competitive in MLS and CCL next year. (No offense to Impact fans, but you guys are awful to watch...only reason why you guys are winning in CCL because the teams you're playing against either are awful or aren't in midseason form like you guys are right now...it would be interesting to see in Quarterfinals how Impact play against teams who are in midseason form)

Impact awful to watch ? Well, I watched some TFC games this season and when you look at the way they played, I take my awful team over yours by far.

Awful opposition ? Mmmmm...

Atlante = Apertura 2007 winners & Semifinalists in the Superliga & 6th seed in the league table (winners of their group) in the Apertura 2008.

C.D. Olimpia = Barely missed the Final round by 1 pt (5th/10 and over .500) but they're still the current champions (Clausura 2007-2008).

But I agree Joe Public is awful...

And oh, I see... If a Mexican side in midseason form beats us in late February while we're off since 4 months, then it will be fair, no ? C'mon...

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quote:Originally posted by michaeltfc91

^ They finished with 6wins, 7ties, 17 losses. they were 1-11-4 in the second half. Still though you're right, they collapse in the middle of the season mostly because of international duties and injuries.

Yea they never seem to get back on track even when everyone is back from international duties. The injuries won't get better until you get a younger squad. Yes some of the 30+ guys can still play excellent but healing up from an injury (even a minor one) takes so much longer in your 30s than it does in your 20s.

Here is a plan for MoJo. Sign a bunch of Canadian 20 somethings because they won't have as many callups for international duty. :(

I hope they make the playoffs next year.

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There seems to be some sort of misconception that the TFC 30+ contingent is injury-prone, which (if you look closely at it) is far from the truth.

Dichio, the oldest player on the team, is the only one who has struggled with injuries. Robinson and Guevara have only missed games for international duty, as with Brennan (who has played through cracked ribs causing him to miss two games at the end of 2007) and Sutton for Canada, and Tyrone Marshall for Jamaica. The rest of the team is under 30.

TFC is actually fairly injury-free, relatively speaking. The problem lies more in players 12-28 and their relative lack of talent rather than injuries.

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It's always a little confusing to me to see some TFC fans upset that the team is not "competitive". Do these people forget that TFC is an expansion team that has just completed its second season of existence? Yes, the argument can be made that with better managerial and personnel decisions, the team could be a bit further along the road than they are... but to me, it seems that a lot of people don't realize that just because you have a nice, vocal turnout at your home matches, this doesn't magically translate into a winning team right off the mark.

This being said (and to keep this post somewhat on-topic), given the size of the league, the playoff format, TFC's finish in the standings this season and expected changes in the offseason, there's no reason they can't make the playoffs in 2009 -- and I think that pretty clearly qualifies as being "competitive".

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I think the team was quite competitive going down the final stretch. So I think the answer is NOW. Some tweaks here and there (such as ridding itself of such rubbish as Ruiz) in the off season and this team will make the playoffs.

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quote:Originally posted by Ed

I think the team was quite competitive going down the final stretch. So I think the answer is NOW. Some tweaks here and there (such as ridding itself of such rubbish as Ruiz) in the off season and this team will make the playoffs.

Bingo!

TFC only missed the playoffs by four points. A key upgrade here and there and they are easily a legit playoff team.

It doesn't take much to be "competitive" in a 15-team league. TFC is a centre back and winger away from being competitive, and if a striker is thrown in (to compliment Barrett, Dichio and Ibrahim), all of a sudden TFC looks very good.

Of course, these players need to be non-internationals (Canadian or otherwise) to circumvent MLS' insistence on playing through FIFA dates.

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quote:Originally posted by Ed

I think the team was quite competitive going down the final stretch. So I think the answer is NOW. Some tweaks here and there (such as ridding itself of such rubbish as Ruiz) in the off season and this team will make the playoffs.

It all depends how you define the final stretch. October was great but the farther back you go the worse the fade appears. Counting only league play not Voyageur's Cup

Oct08 = W T W L (7 out of 12 points = 58%)

Sep08 = L T L T (2 out of 12 points = 17%)

Aug08 = L W L T L (4 out of 15 points = 27%)

Jul08 = L T L (1 out of 9 points = 11%)

Jun08 = L W T L (4 out of 12 points = 33%)

May08 = T T W L W (8 out of 15 points = 53%)

Ma/Ap = L L W W W (9 out of 15 points = 60%)

So October was their second best month of the year but July-September really did them in.

They did improve their record. I think they can make the playoffs in 2009. Good luck and you can always say you got more points than LA ;)

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quote:Originally posted by TFC07

(No offense to Impact fans, but you guys are awful to watch

Honestly, I think Toronto could learn a lot from the way we defend and counter attack.

I've seen the last TFC games in your season, and the latest games of us, and honestly, no bias, we have a much better "defense into attack" method than TFC.

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quote:Originally posted by TFC07

TFC has all resources in the world to be competitive in MLS and CCL next year. (No offense to Impact fans, but you guys are awful to watch...only reason why you guys are winning in CCL because the teams you're playing against either are awful or aren't in midseason form like you guys are right now...it would be interesting to see in Quarterfinals how Impact play against teams who are in midseason form)

Well I agree and disagree. Yes, I have noted in past years, while following Concacaf club play on FSWC, a huge discrepancy in form between the US sides and central american sides depending on whether the games are played in late Fall versus February and March. No doubt, it has everything to do with mid/late season form versus early season rust.

But I disagree with the suggestion that they have been boring to watch. The Impact games in the CCL that I have seen have been pleasantly entertaining to watch. To me, they played like they belong there and you can tell that they gain confidence as the tournament wore on. The knock ( in the past) on USL sides has been the over reliance on simple plays. But I saw a decent amount of sustained posession from the Impact and with purpose. I noted many games whereby their oposition was far more guilty of lazy and carelesss giveaways.

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quote:Originally posted by TFC07

TFC has all resources in the world to be competitive in MLS and CCL next year. (No offense to Impact fans, but you guys are awful to watch...only reason why you guys are winning in CCL because the teams you're playing against either are awful or aren't in midseason form like you guys are right now...it would be interesting to see in Quarterfinals how Impact play against teams who are in midseason form)

Reminder to you to remove your head from your ass. Improves visibility and leads to comprehension.

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quote:Originally posted by TFC07

TFC has all resources in the world to be competitive in MLS and CCL next year. (No offense to Impact fans, but you guys are awful to watch...only reason why you guys are winning in CCL because the teams you're playing against either are awful or aren't in midseason form like you guys are right now...it would be interesting to see in Quarterfinals how Impact play against teams who are in midseason form)

Reminder to you to remove your head from your ass. Improves visibility and leads to comprehension.

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quote:Originally posted by TFC07

TFC has all resources in the world to be competitive in MLS and CCL next year. (No offense to Impact fans, but you guys are awful to watch...only reason why you guys are winning in CCL because the teams you're playing against either are awful or aren't in midseason form like you guys are right now...it would be interesting to see in Quarterfinals how Impact play against teams who are in midseason form)

It would have been synonymous yet simpler to have said: " No offense to Impact fans, but I've never watched a match and have no idea what I'm talking about."

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Being a Caps fan I'm amused by this TFC bashing of the Impact. To be honest from an impartial view I like watching the Impact play more than the TFC. They play more of the style I like to see. Since JL took over I've been very impressed.

I wish the best to both clubs unless you are playing the Caps then DIE DIE DIE :D

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