Lessons from Edmonton

[River City]

Now that I finally had a chance to catch up at work, and personal life and facebook and we've all had time to reflect on another failed qualifying attempt, I wanted to post this and start some debate on;

1) how we as V's can better support Canada at matches

2) how we as V's can be better organized

I want to thank those that posted on the Post-Mortem thread and also thank the Toronto and Montreal V's for the great job they did. Thank you to the out of town V's that came to Edmonton, the Calgary and Olds contigent especially as that drive isn't always fun. The BC'ers that flew and drove, the Prairie guys that were barely conscious pre-match and the Prairie guys that were barely conscious pos-match for different reasons. And yes, Fort York Red Coat for representing Toronto! The V's that stepped up to be on the Local Organizing Committee email list and two special thank yous for Canadian Traveller and Reza.

1) HOW WE AS V'S CAN BETTER SUPPORT CANADA AT MATCHES

LOCAL ORGANIZING COMMITTEE (LOC)

I'm not sure how Toronto or Montreal got organized, but in Edmonton, due to the lack of a pro team, or semi-pro team for that matter, the V's only get together once in a blue moon. The LOC was essential for getting stuff off the ground as well as a soundboard for different ideas....I still think that having a Trinidadian steel drum band would have been cool by the way....but I was shot down....

TRAVEL

I don't believe it would have applied for the Edmonton game due to the low number of V's that flew in as opposed to drove in, but airlines do offer discounts for teams or large groups. This may be something worth checking into for future matches, especially out East or in the States. Even if the savings are only $50, hey, that's like 10 beer at the game. For those that drove, organizing car pools isn't a must, but it may very well help.

TRANSPORTATION

Canadian Traveller had a brilliant idea of welcoming V's at the airport and taking them into town. It worked in Edmonton, although this would have been problematic with larger numbers, early morning arrivals, or rush hour arrivals. You need a good number of volunteer drivers.

ACCOMODATION

Again, maybe we need to set up an account with a national/international chain of hotels, or individually owned hotels in each city so that we get discounts no matter where we travel.

SIGHTSEEING

It didn't apply as everyone got out of Dodge as soon as possible, but when I eventually go to Montreal, I want to do some sightseeing. Bars, art galleries, boulangeries, Ballet.....Sports tourism is a growing sector of that industry and contacting the local Tourism bureau would enable them to keep track of our economic impact as well as hopefully offer freebies.

VOYAGEUR GAME DAY

Again, a Canadian Traveller idea. And it was great. It gave us a place to relax, get to meet new V's, store equipment and save money on food and beverage....especially beverage. This will differ from city to city, but in Edmonton, it was a nice, central location....except for that hill...

MARCH

Had we been able to get a tail-gate party location near the Stadium, we wouldn't have had a march. And since there's limited parking at the Stadium and some V's had a wee bit to drink, driving was not an option. Hindsight being 20/20, from Canadian Traveller's condo, the best bet is to go downtown and catch the train to the Stadium. As I was carrying the bass drum (that caused some damage to Blue and White Army's privates) I'm pretty sure I paid the biggest price for the decision to march. Need to get me a strap or a lot of duct tape or something.

TICKETS

Having our own section, with a pre-sale period was great. Kudos to the CSA for recognizing this. But not allocating a Visitor's section with it's own pre-sale was crap. Especially since the Mexicans used the Alberta Soccer Association's pre-sale code to buy their tickets. A code that was simply posted on their website for all to see. A code that WAS NOT passed on the EDSA, and I'm assuming the EMSA and EYISA. A code that enabled the Mexicans to set up their section.....RIGHT beside ours! We had P and Q. They had R, S, T, U thanks to the in-bred geniuses at the ASA.

As soon as we found out about it, Winnipeg Fury contacted the CSA and got them to put a stop on sales for Section R, but too monkey little, too monkey late. The CSA HAS TO designate and communicate a visitors section for all matches. In Edmonton this means that the V's get the camera side on the East, and the visitors get the West side. No if's and's or but's. After what happened in Montreal, I got worried. Luckily, other than the Mexican kid that threw a beer at us, there were no incidents. This was the exception, not the rule. You can't put passionate, alcohol-fueled supporters of different teams beside each other. NEVER AGAIN!

I do think having two sections of 12 rows was better than one section of 24 rows as everyone was closer together and from the tv angles, we look bigger than what we were. Optics is huge, and when we can maximize our presence on tv with banners and a sea of red, it can only help us.

ENTRY GATE

Winnipeg Fury arranged to have Gate 10 as the designated entry for the V's. No lines, no hassles, no problem. Except that Gate 10 was locked and there was no one around. So off we went to Gate 9. Except that the Security guys wouldn't let us in with the drums. Mothermonkey! Every monkey time! Same monkey crap! We had requested a list of permissible items from the CSA. We never got one. So Reza, Carl Valentine and I spent 15 minutes arguing with the Security guys, until they finally relented. The CSA contact for the venue in case we had issues...nowhere where Security could contact her.

BANNER SET-UP

With delayed entrance to the Stadium, it was a mad rush to hang all the banners we brought. As a note, we had more banners and equipment in Edmonton than we had bodies to carry them. Canadian Traveller stayed behind to clean the condo and drive the rest of the banners, Voyageur flag and song sheets (500 copies) to the Stadium. Once he got there, he brought most of the rest of the banners and song sheets. There was no point sending him back for the rest....this was halfway through the first half.

We had requested early access to the Stadium to hang the banners. This was denied. I kept on pestering Winnipeg Fury but to no avail. We're now at the point where we have a lot of gear and we need the early access. It will save a lot of hassle and last minute running around to be able to hang all banners ahead of time. Assuming the next match is in Toronto, you guys will see exactly what I'm talking about.

CHANTS

It was brilliant plan it was....but didn't work out. Part of it was that we were still setting up banners well into the game before me and Reza made it to our seats. Except that by that time, it was already a mosh pit in the first couple of rows. It would have been impossible to get everyone to return to their seats so the chant captains could coordinate the chants.

The other reason was that the song sheets got there late, so....it was back to basics. In my little area, it was BWArmy and Tuscan leading the way with the singing, Reza and I with the drumming. It was chaos, bit it kind of worked. Megaphones for next time IF the CSA gives us written permission. It's on the outlawed list at Commonwealth.

BEER LINES

Not sure what we can do here. Tip beer runners to come to our section?

SECURITY

Cheeta's comment that some security guy came over to tells us to quiet down means that WE need to meet with stadium security ahead of time.

POST GAME PUB

Sherlock's is definitely the place to be. Except for Godfrey stealing my hat.

2) HOW WE AS V'S CAN BE BETTER ORGANIZED

In the lead up to the game, I had an interesting on-going discussion with Winnipeg Fury on our philosophical approaches and the future of the V's as an organization. We didn't resolve our differences of opinion and there was no point in continuing it at that point.

I was annoyed that the LOC requested Section Y and the CSA asked us to go to Section Q only to end up with Mexicans sitting there as well in addition to Sections R, S, T and U. Section Y by the way is on the player entrance side and by the corner of the pitch. It's perfect for supporters. It's perfect for us.

I was annoyed that rather than coming across on tv as a pro-Canada crowd, the 5,000 Mexicans (out of 8,000 sold tickets as of the Thursday before) would make Edmonton look like Azteca. Something that could have been averted had the CSA listened to the LOC. All we wanted was to make Edmonton look like it supported Canada. So that when the casual fan turns on the game or catches highlights on tv, he sees a pro-Canada crowd with Canadian banners running all across the camera side of the Stadium that can potentially inspire him to come to a game, rather than see Azteca north which will turn him off from coming to a game. We need to turn the casual sports fan to a Canada fan. Optics is the first step.

I was annoyed that only 8,000 tickets had been sold out as of the Thursday before the game. Why no publicity? Did the CSA intentionally derail any marketing? Did the ASA drop the ball? Why wasn't the game advertised on the EDSA (Edmonton Adult Soccer) website? Why was my Div 4 EDSA team not notified of the ASA code, or the fact there was even a game? Mind you EDSA scheduled my team for 4 games in 4 days, and then to close the season when we could have been fighting for first place, we had back to back games. Utter monkey crap.

As a result, and with growing membership numbers, I see the need for an organized V's executive. President or Beaver in Chief or Head Water Buffalo or whatever else name we decide on. We need someone that can represent us, be our public figure on tv, radio. Obviously someone in the GTA area with time on their hands....

We've done press releases before. We need to formalize this process so that it's easier for the next time. As an example, when Mithchell does resign/gets fired, we need to put something out that expresses our disappointment with his tenure, but thanks him for his efforts even if we didn't agree with them. Also thanking him for his contributions as player.

Winnipeg Fury has been doing a monkey brilliant job with the $$$ and with dealing with the CSA. Getting the CSA to give us our own official sections, the access to the CSA for interviews, the designation of the Voyageurs Cup as the Cup for the Nutrilite Canadian Championship. This gives us an in with the CSA. Rather than protesting and just fighting the CSA in public, having open channels of communication with them is essential for us to grow and for the CSA to utilize us as they see fit. Even for marketing MNT games.

I see the need of LOC's having flexibility to organize as they want. A national cookie-cutter approach will not work.

Just because something works in Toronto or Montreal, doesn't mean it'll work in Edmonton. I can't speak for other cities, but in Edmonton, we have years of experience dealing with the same crap...lack of publicity, fighting to get drums in to the stadium, fighting to be able to play the drums, having visiting fans right beside us.....please CSA, listen to us. Please.

My apologies for the length of this post, but we need to have a serious discussion on where we go from here.....As an aside, one of the things that most made an impression on me on October 15 (other than the out of town V's and Radz wearing the Sack the CSA shirt) is that MNT Players do read this forum and some are sensitive about the personal nature of some of the posts. There needs to be a disclaimer for them that while we may disagree with player selections and tactics, we will ALWAYS support the 11 guys on the field. ALWAYS! That's ultimately our job.

[Sam]

^ Good post

The support from the Voyageurs was fantastic through out qualifying. Now we just need the rest of Canada to wake up. I made it out to two of the games and the Voyageurs were great for both of them. I'm looking forward to the next time we have game nearby whether it be a friendly or GC game and I think we could use a lot of your suggestions to improve the support.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

Ticket sales for international games need to change in this country. Tickets for these types of matches should NOT be sold through Ticketmaster. Rather, tickets should be sold independently through the representative national associations.

Even with the most ideal ticket sales in our favour, the laissez-faire system that characterises Ticketmaster will lead to problems vis-a-vis clashing supporters. Most countries have proper home and away supporters sections, in clearly marked locations of a stadium. We should never be standing next to a large away contingent at any home game.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

Ticket sales for international games need to change in this country. Tickets for these types of matches should NOT be sold through Ticketmaster. Rather, tickets should be sold independently through the representative national associations.

Even with the most ideal ticket sales in our favour, the laissez-faire system that characterises Ticketmaster will lead to problems vis-a-vis clashing supporters. Most countries have proper home and away supporters sections, in clearly marked locations of a stadium. We should never be standing next to a large away contingent at any home game.

[ekaram]

For Toronto games, the V's should sit in the south end with U-Sec and the RPB, imagine how much louder and bigger we would have been. And we should set up right behind the net instead of 112 113, that way the songs can reach the whole south end and not just the one half.

[ekaram]

For Toronto games, the V's should sit in the south end with U-Sec and the RPB, imagine how much louder and bigger we would have been. And we should set up right behind the net instead of 112 113, that way the songs can reach the whole south end and not just the one half.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

quote:Originally posted by ekaram

For Toronto games, the V's should sit in the south end with U-Sec and the RPB, imagine how much louder and bigger we would have been. And we should set up right behind the net instead of 112 113, that way the songs can reach the whole south end and not just the one half.

I'd go for that. I just wish that an accessible seating area hadn't been built into the most desirable part of the south end.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

quote:Originally posted by ekaram

For Toronto games, the V's should sit in the south end with U-Sec and the RPB, imagine how much louder and bigger we would have been. And we should set up right behind the net instead of 112 113, that way the songs can reach the whole south end and not just the one half.

I'd go for that. I just wish that an accessible seating area hadn't been built into the most desirable part of the south end.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

There is a lot of interesting stuff there. Will say this though: I will never risk missing even a second of a match just to fiddle around with chants, marches, banners, drums, beers and other silliness. Before, during or at half time. And I think I am not alone. We are not all a bunch of bitches who need to load on the extras to cover for a lack of everything else.

I mean so much extra crap is useless if you forget why you happen to want to be at the game. It is like an old whore loading on the make-up and slinking around with sequined dress when she has nothing left to turn you on with. It is like being a bit bitchy.

This comment is directly solely at those complaining about missing the game for dumb reasons: if reality is not quite ready for us, and the CSA won't help, better to mould yourself to reality and be there to support the team, wherever or however.

The rest of the stuff seems de puta madre.

[superbrad]

River thanks again for organizing the LOC, we really enjoyed ourselves (myself even more than the TO game). Jeff I think the chants, marches etc. work just fine when you have the support of the CSA/ASA and the V's went in thinking they had that support. Yes in the end it’s only the game that matters however for us to have any influence over the future of the MNT we need to demonstrate our 'growing' support by numbers at these matches. Vpjr made the point in another thread that this visual and perceived support is noticed by sponsors who inevitably will put money into the program. (I bank at BMO and I feed my kids Nutella).

River continues to make the point for more formal organization of the V's. I agree. We have people putting in the same amount of volunteer time as it is; we are a growing group and are having some influence on media, the CSA, the players and fans. A formalized structure would assist us in generating funds for banners, lobbying, etc. etc...... the possibilities are endless. I know it’s been tabled in previous threads however I continue to think it’s something to seriously consider.

[Lord Bob]

There is a lot of stuff here that we should pressure the CSA on. Early access, in particular, is crucial: it's hard to organize when we have no time to get organized, and it shouldn't be a major factor for the CSA. Open one gate an hour early, let through the single mob of banner-carrying V's, close the gate. Distribute sheets, get everybody into their seats, sing like hell. Easy.

Probably too easy for the geniuses who run football in this country, but anyway. Still shouldn't be too hard a pitch at the more accomodating venues: Commonwealth and the CSA have sometimes had a strained relationship, so that might account for it in this instance. The security issue was probably more Commonwealth Stadium idiots than CSA idiots: we all remember one ticket booth being open at the U-20s...

Just about all the stuff around the match (VGD, the after-game celebration) was spot-on in Edmonton and Montreal. As a participant rather than an organiser, I didn't have a thing to complain about in either venue. We all know there was trouble in Montreal with the Peel Pub and the crazy security guys, but things like that'll happen. We just have to make sure we're well-organized enough to get around them.

[BrennanFan]

quote:Originally posted by ekaram

For Toronto games, the V's should sit in the south end with U-Sec and the RPB, imagine how much louder and bigger we would have been. And we should set up right behind the net instead of 112 113, that way the songs can reach the whole south end and not just the one half.

your right ev, we should be in the south end next time. the idea originally (i think) was to show a bit of respect to the TFC supporters by not taking over their section, and also spread some noise to other parts of the stadium. but the reality is, and maybe some usecs/rpbs can correct me if im wrong, that the only true supporters are in the corner of 112/113 and maybe some 114. the rest of the south end tends to stand, wear scarves, and not do much else. id be happy to displace those people.

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan

your right ev, we should be in the south end next time. the idea originally (i think) was to show a bit of respect to the TFC supporters by not taking over their section, and also spread some noise to other parts of the stadium. but the reality is, and maybe some usecs/rpbs can correct me if im wrong, that the only true supporters are in the corner of 112/113 and maybe some 114. the rest of the south end tends to stand, wear scarves, and not do much else. id be happy to displace those people.

One of the (bigger?) issues is that a lot of the South end is season ticket holders, who got first dibs on those tickets. The V's couldn't be guaranteed a large contiguous block of tickets.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by dsqpr

This was true last time, but next time, who knows? In my experience it is unprecedented for a club's season ticket holders to be given first dibs on their seats for internationals played at their ground. I can only imagine the riots if Man United season ticket holders had been given first dibs on their seats when England played at Old Trafford! I know our situation is different but the principle makes perfect sense and should be the same.

You have a point but the problem is that currently we need as many TFC season ticket holders to show up as possible to get a pro-Canada crowd and taking away their seats is not the way to achieve this. When we get to the point where every sports fan wants a ticket like in England we might be able to change things. I think we were put where we were because this is traditionally the away section and as such doesn't have the season ticket holders that other sections do. I do agree we would be better to be in one spot and hopefully we can find a way to balance all the concerns in the future to achieve that.

[ekaram]

RPB and U-sec have a pretty good relationship with tfc and BMO field. I think we should be able to get our tickets behind the nets.

Most tfc sth that sit right behind the goal aren't as active as 112 113 and parts of 114, some of them can't here the chants going on and some just don't care. I don't think it would be a problem to get them to sit around the main core of Vs U-sec and rpb.

[SilverSamurai]

quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan

your right ev, we should be in the south end next time. the idea originally (i think) was to show a bit of respect to the TFC supporters by not taking over their section, and also spread some noise to other parts of the stadium. but the reality is, and maybe some usecs/rpbs can correct me if im wrong, that the only true supporters are in the corner of 112/113 and maybe some 114. the rest of the south end tends to stand, wear scarves, and not do much else. id be happy to displace those people.

Yes and no, re: the south end. The problem is that a lot of the other supporters are scattered throughout BMO during TFC matches. During the Canada Cup games the supporters were finally able to be concentrated together.

Also during the Canada game, the various supporters bought up the tickets themselves. So to be honest I'm not sure if theirs enough room in the south end for the V's. If anything I'd say maybe in 117-118.

I'm not sure though...

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by SilverSamurai

The problem is that a lot of the other supporters are scattered throughout BMO during TFC matches. During the Voyageurs Cup games the supporters were finally able to be concentrated together.

Also during the Canada game, the various supporters bought up the tickets themselves. So to be honest I'm not sure if theirs enough room in the south end for the V's. If anything I'd say maybe in 117-118.

I'm not sure though...

Fixed your post mate.

[SilverSamurai]

quote:Originally posted by redhat

Fixed your post mate.

Haha. Thanks! [8D]

[Fort York Redcoat1555362293]

Last time in Toronto (and it was only last time) the success was in the hands of the TFC supporter clubs and the V's trying their damndest to wrench the tickets out of ticketmaster who was just as happy to wait for Jamaicans to purchase seats by any means. This has got to be our main concern in the future to ensure that that the South are local Canada fans that would be there for their club and singing just as loud.

I would like to stress how proud I was to stand amongst the V's that came all the way to my town and would gladly do it again to make the stadium pro Canada in more than one section. I thought we did the heavy lifting there in the corner right beside the oppositions fans.

This is not meant as a competition but as a compliment to all who travelled (wherever you were at that game).

[Guest Ed]

I think next time we play at BMO we should seriously press the CSA to restrict supporters of the visiting team to a subsection of the stadium. But that might mean we are a serious soccer nation.

[Lord Bob]

Restrictions at, say, Commonwealth should be easy for the CSA. If you restricted the Mexicans to the entire upper bowl, say, then you'd still have more seats available than you'd ever sell to Mexicans.

And they'd all be safely in the upper bowl, away from civilization.

So everybody wins!

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

I think next time we play at BMO we should seriously press the CSA to restrict supporters of the visiting team to a subsection of the stadium. But that might mean we are a serious soccer nation.

I agree. While, for the most part, mixing the crowd hasn't been a problem BUT there were most definitely problems at the Canada - Chile match last summer and there was the issue of the spitting Jamaican fan invading the back of 113.

It is the prudent thing to do IMO.

[Lord Bob]

Honestly, I see the CSA's point with trying to ensure strong away numbers at our matches. Realistically, we're not going to fill Saputo with Canada fans right now - anybody else who was there would probably agree with me. So it's arguably in our interests to ensure the stadium is full while also trying to ensure that the away fans do the least good!

[piltdownman]

Why can't you fill Saputo with Canadian fans? Sure they might have to work for it, but I think it can be done. I think first you have to try to get all the local youth clubs involved. Secondly I think getting the University kids out. Thirdly, Gillette whats to be involved with the MLS club in Montreal, so have him send out a mail out to Canadian season ticket holders. And not just a blank form letter, something heartfelt about how we need to win to go to the World Cup. Fourthly Advertise.

However, I think the CSA knows its easier to do nothing, knowing that away supporters will buy tickets.