Guest speedmonk42 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 People complain alot about the CSA. I want to hear concrete reasons for what is good and what is bad with respect to the structure of the organization. Is it the people or the very nature of how it is set up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 I think the model does make succeess difficult. A few points... 1. The national team coach reports to the board. The board is not qualified to hire, judge, etc... a coach at this level. The coach should report to the technical director who should report to the CEO (or whatever they call him) who should be accountable to the board. 2. The composition of the board is flawed. They are all (or almost all) provinvial association reps. This, inherehtly, creates a conflict. It also restricts any participation from talented people who are independent of the soccer establishment. It would be akin to a public company having 95% of its board being from the management of the company. The opposite should be the case. 3. The "membership" is generally biased toward the establishment (ie the provinvial associations). What this means is that change is next to impossible. Who could remove the board? The provincial reps. Who comprises the board? The provincial reps. Not much will change. This is just part of the problem. Also, any talented leader who might want to get involved in the CSA will see the fundamental issues here - and, simply, wouldn't do the job - the farse of a CEO search over the last several years demonstrates this. And here is another problem - these issues are very clear and very understood by potential corporate funders. These foolish governance structures make it very difficult to raise money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bxl Boy Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 The third point of SF list, and the fact that the CSA functions more “bottom to top” than “top to bottom” are the greater structural problems of the CSA. If that changes, it will be the cause of other structural (and good) changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 I am not sure that this affects corporate sponsors. Primarly the CSA has not created any vehicles for sponsorship, which is their fault but I think it works in that direction not the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Good - nothing Bad - too much to be successful Some of the key issues - 1. Paid staff should manage & volunteer board should govern 2. Develop a professional management structure based on what a NSO should function as to develop the sport so it is attractive to sponsors at all levels of the sport. 3. Hire paid staff that actually know how to manage & move forward to a professional NSO that can manage all aspects of the programs. 4. Create a National Soccer Foundation much like the US Soccer Foundation where sponsors can put $ into it so it can be used to develop the sport away from the NSO. As well funds of the foundation can be used to support the NSO for national teams & programs. 5. National team players should create a national players association so they have group representation to deal w/ the NSO. Players still don't have a well structured game appearance fee package ie. the WNT got no $ for game appearance for the Olympics. 6. Allow for the volunteer board to be composed by up to 50% of volunteers who are business people. This will balance the province issue & gives some good leads into the business community as the CSA has none. 7. Open financial accountability broken down by programs so we can see where the kids money really does go. NOTE - If the CSA isn't willing to change is up to the clubs & districts to use their votes to bring about change. The only reason the CSA is the way it is, is because those at the bottom leave things up to their PSO. If CSA can't get on the same page as the members, it's time to break the youth away into it's own national & provincial associations like the USA so they have more control over the money that governments give to the sport & the fees that go to the PSO & NSO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Bad.. its not a democratic sport organisation the membership of thye CSA is less then fifteen people, representing provinces and pro game .. etc. Far to small a group to elect anyone from to sit on committees etc. Good nothing .. First step .. direct elections by Clubs of CSA board at a true AGM with no proxy voting, clubs having votes based on dollars paid to CSA ... based on recreational funding for recreation soccer and competitive for competitive soccer. The latter including Pro payments. Dollars talk .. let them vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squid2 Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42 People complain alot about the CSA. I want to hear concrete reasons for what is good and what is bad with respect to the structure of the organization. Is it the people or the very nature of how it is set up? If you have not yet done so, have a read of the Deloitte study/report commissioned by the CSA, completed in April 2005. http://www.canadiansoccerfederation.ca/D&T.pdf It sums things up nicely. quote:Originally posted by CoachRich 4. Create a National Soccer Foundation much like the US Soccer Foundation where sponsors can put $ into it so it can be used to develop the sport away from the NSO. As well funds of the foundation can be used to support the NSO for national teams & programs. Done! Currently mothballed/abandoned/forgotten. http://www.pch.gc.ca/newsroom/index_e.cfm?fuseaction=displayDocument&DocIDCd=1N0176 From the 5th paragraph of the above press release "Denis Coderre and President of the Canadian Soccer Association Jim Fleming also used the occasion of Mr. Blatter's visit in Canada to launch the Canadian Soccer Foundation, a new type of partnership to promote soccer in Canada and organize a future World Cup bid. The Foundation will mount a bid that will involve a partnership between the Government of Canada, the private sector, stadium authorities and other prospective partners to finance, plan and implement Canada's bid, in all regions of the country. "The actions taken today and the bonds being formed between FIFA and Canada will be favourable for soccer in Canada," stated Jim Fleming of the Canadian Soccer Association." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklefan Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 The CSA should create and manage a professional canadian league, that's how it works in the other countries, I don't think the MLS is the better thing to do because of the low quality of football, but it's better than nothing. I have a question for people who knows best the CSA's system: do they have money to create some professional clubs? like 10 clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Nothing short of recommendations delivered as a result of a complete audit/review/analysis of the organization from the ground up performed by competent experienced professionals will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 "do they have money to create some professional clubs? like 10 clubs?" Not by a very long way, they are having to ask the provinces for an additional $4 tax on youth and senior player registration fees just to cover the expected costs for the next few years, never mind funding a national professional top tier league, plus there is nobody at the CSA who has what it takes to get a project like that going, they can barely run what they have now. Just ain't going to happen under the current regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup Both. Good at being bad and bad at being good? If so, then yes, I'd have to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 It works for both that and speedmonk's last line. I was at work and figured that was the Coles Notes version that would get others typing it out...heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 quote:Originally posted by SF I think the model does make succeess difficult. A few points... 1. The national team coach reports to the board. The board is not qualified to hire, judge, etc... a coach at this level. The coach should report to the technical director who should report to the CEO (or whatever they call him) who should be accountable to the board. 2. The composition of the board is flawed. They are all (or almost all) provinvial association reps. This, inherehtly, creates a conflict. It also restricts any participation from talented people who are independent of the soccer establishment. It would be akin to a public company having 95% of its board being from the management of the company. The opposite should be the case. 3. The "membership" is generally biased toward the establishment (ie the provinvial associations). What this means is that change is next to impossible. Who could remove the board? The provincial reps. Who comprises the board? The provincial reps. Not much will change. This is just part of the problem. Also, any talented leader who might want to get involved in the CSA will see the fundamental issues here - and, simply, wouldn't do the job - the farse of a CEO search over the last several years demonstrates this. And here is another problem - these issues are very clear and very understood by potential corporate funders. These foolish governance structures make it very difficult to raise money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fetajr Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Volunteers should not be at the top. A salaried President should be at the top. The president should good great at business, should love soccer, but does not necessarily need to know it that well. President hires knowledgeable soccer people under him. Those soccer people hire an experienced international coach and allow him to bring his staff to run the national team. in layman's terms, that's the way most soccer centric countries do it in the world... a lot hire a domestic coach, but we can't afford to go that route in Canada anymore, we need to look abroad. Canada's model is ass backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leekoo Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 quote:Originally posted by squid2 Done! Currently mothballed/abandoned/forgotten. http://www.pch.gc.ca/newsroom/index_e.cfm?fuseaction=displayDocument&DocIDCd=1N0176 From the 5th paragraph of the above press release "Denis Coderre and President of the Canadian Soccer Association Jim Fleming also used the occasion of Mr. Blatter's visit in Canada to launch the Canadian Soccer Foundation, a new type of partnership to promote soccer in Canada and organize a future World Cup bid. The Foundation will mount a bid that will involve a partnership between the Government of Canada, the private sector, stadium authorities and other prospective partners to finance, plan and implement Canada's bid, in all regions of the country. "The actions taken today and the bonds being formed between FIFA and Canada will be favourable for soccer in Canada," stated Jim Fleming of the Canadian Soccer Association." we needed local infra structure ... instead the real objective seemed be this ... OBJECTIVES The number one objective of the Foundation is to raise funds to launch a high quality bid to win the hosting rights to the FIFA World Cup at the earliest opportunity. The Foundation also gives high priority to supporting major international hosting opportunities undertaken by the CSA and thus will be a strategic partner. The aim of the Foundation is to assist in ensuring the greatest success for the project through providing additional resources not normally available within the sports system. The Foundation will be an integral part of the organization for any major soccer event coming to Canada to ensure the international visibility and coverage from Canada is overwhelmingly positive. Therefore, building the FIFA World Cup Bid is the key long-term objective of the Foundation in its role as a strategic partner with CSA. we didn't need FIFA World Cups ... especially ones that lost money ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bxl Boy Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 According to well placed people, this fundation should reborn in the next few months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 The "good" side is strangely quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Paddy has there been a good side presented here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 quote: Done! Currently mothballed/abandoned/forgotten. http://www.pch.gc.ca/newsroom/index_e.cfm?fuseaction=displayDocument&DocIDCd=1N0176 From the 5th paragraph of the above press release "Denis Coderre and President of the Canadian Soccer Association Jim Fleming also used the occasion of Mr. Blatter's visit in Canada to launch the Canadian Soccer Foundation, a new type of partnership to promote soccer in Canada and organize a future World Cup bid. The Foundation will mount a bid that will involve a partnership between the Government of Canada, the private sector, stadium authorities and other prospective partners to finance, plan and implement Canada's bid, in all regions of the country. "The actions taken today and the bonds being formed between FIFA and Canada will be favourable for soccer in Canada," stated Jim Fleming of the Canadian Soccer Association." It's obvious w/ the Gov & CSA involved it was doomed for failure at the beginning. Please go to www.ussoccerfoundation.org to see what the differences are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 quote:Originally posted by leekoo we needed local infra structure ... instead the real objective seemed be this ... OBJECTIVES The number one objective of the Foundation is to raise funds to launch a high quality bid to win the hosting rights to the FIFA World Cup at the earliest opportunity. The Foundation also gives high priority to supporting major international hosting opportunities undertaken by the CSA and thus will be a strategic partner. The aim of the Foundation is to assist in ensuring the greatest success for the project through providing additional resources not normally available within the sports system. The Foundation will be an integral part of the organization for any major soccer event coming to Canada to ensure the international visibility and coverage from Canada is overwhelmingly positive. Therefore, building the FIFA World Cup Bid is the key long-term objective of the Foundation in its role as a strategic partner with CSA. we didn't need FIFA World Cups ... especially ones that lost money ... Correct The Foundation role is ""To enhance, assist and grow the sport of soccer in the Canada (United States)." World Cups enhance the tourist/hosting industry & unless run properly do not generate any $ for the NSO (CSA) & their members (the kids). The USSF success comes from taking the surplus funds from the 1994 WC & building on it. Nothing to do w/ the NSO. "The U.S. Soccer Foundation was established in 1995 to manage the surplus funds generated by the 1994 FIFA World Cup held in the United States. Under the guidance of its Board of Directors, the Foundation has taken a leading role in supporting the continuous development of the sport at all levels. Over $48 million in grants, financial support and loans have been made to help develop coaches, players and referees, especially those in economically disadvantaged urban areas. " USSF Annual Reports http://www.ussoccerfoundation.org/site/c.gpLPJQOpHkE/b.877865/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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