squid2 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 The CSA's fart catchers have requested time & space at each provincial associaton's AGM for a Town Hall type meeting. The main purpose of the meeting is to pitch and justify an increase in registration fees effective 2009. Mini soccer, youth soccer, etc.... Registration fee's (levy) are pretty much 50-55% of the CSA's annual revenue; in 2008 the CSA portion was $7.00 per player (I think mini was $4.00). The CSA needs a $12-$15 increase to maintain "their programs". The OSA is limiting the increase to $5 in Ontario. What amount will the OSA tack on; or, What % will the OSA retain? Regardless, its a wonderful example of the tail wagging the dog. In return for the increase, mini soccer, youth soccer, etc., get nothing! So why does the CSA need the increase? What will the funds be used for? How will the funds be allocated? What's the plan for the NTs'? I agree that the CSA needs more money. But I do not support the current structure of the CSA. The CSA needs to make some significant changes. Just who will have access to these town hall meetings is an interesting question. I don't have an answer. I have not received an answer; regardless, I'll be crashing the Ontario Soccer Association's AGM on the weekend of November 8 & 9. Its being held at the Westin Hotel, out by the airport. http://www.soccer.on.ca/OSN.nsf/1422de1221eb9886852568170050f4f6/e24f078641b6afb68525681d0069c660?OpenDocument The Westin Bristol Place Toronto Airport 950 Dixon Road · Toronto, Phone: (416) 675-9444 Map: http://www.starwoodhotels.com/westin/property/area/map.html?propertyID=1771 Not to be disrespectful and rude, but this just might be the best opportunity for CSA haters to put the CSA's feet to the fire about how they operate, so to lean on a cliche: time for the CSA haters to "put up or shut up" when it comes to how the CSA operates! I already know of 1 club in Ontario that will not register any youth recreational player under 18 (not mini) with their local district in 2009. In speaking with numbers, and only to the CSA portion, in 2008 they remitted $7.00 to the CSA for 1,284 youth players = $8,988.00. I wasn't provided with the numbers for their mini program, but its sizeable and will also be withheld. Add the increase of $5, $12 x 1,284 = $15,408 budgeted; but will not be realized. The local club administrators are listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 quote:Originally posted by squid2 The CSA's fart catchers have requested time & space at each provincial associaton's AGM for a Town Hall type meeting. The main purpose of the meeting is to pitch and justify an increase in registration fees effective 2009. Mini soccer, youth soccer, etc.... Registration fee's (levy) are pretty much 50-55% of the CSA's annual revenue; in 2008 the CSA portion was $7.00 per player (I think mini was $4.00). The CSA needs a $12-$15 increase to maintain "their programs". The OSA is limiting the increase to $5 in Ontario. What amount will the OSA tack on; or, What % will the OSA retain? Regardless, its a wonderful example of the tail wagging the dog. In return for the increase, mini soccer, youth soccer, etc., get nothing! So why does the CSA need the increase? What will the funds be used for? How will the funds be allocated? What's the plan for the NTs'? I agree that the CSA needs more money. But I do not support the current structure of the CSA. The CSA needs to make some significant changes. Just who will have access to these town hall meetings is an interesting question. I don't have an answer. I have not received an answer; regardless, I'll be crashing the Ontario Soccer Association's AGM on the weekend of November 8 & 9. Its being held at the Westin Hotel, out by the airport. http://www.soccer.on.ca/OSN.nsf/1422de1221eb9886852568170050f4f6/e24f078641b6afb68525681d0069c660?OpenDocument The Westin Bristol Place Toronto Airport 950 Dixon Road · Toronto, Phone: (416) 675-9444 Map: http://www.starwoodhotels.com/westin/property/area/map.html?propertyID=1771 Not to be disrespectful and rude, but this just might be the best opportunity for CSA haters to put the CSA's feet to the fire about how they operate, so to lean on a cliche: time for the CSA haters to "put up or shut up" when it comes to how the CSA operates! I already know of 1 club in Ontario that will not register any youth recreational player under 18 (not mini) with their local district in 2009. In speaking with numbers, and only to the CSA portion, in 2008 they remitted $7.00 to the CSA for 1,284 youth players = $8,988.00. I wasn't provided with the numbers for their mini program, but its sizeable and will also be withheld. Add the increase of $5, $12 x 1,284 = $15,408 budgeted; but will not be realized. The local club administrators are listening. The none registering of youth players has been going on a lot .. if the CSA were to crack down out west .. where it appears to be rampant.. they would have less need for asking for more money. But your right no one should allow an increase without a open and clearly costed budget for the next four year cycle, its clear we are dead in this one.. re MNT ... what is needed is real fiscal plan showing what is a base program. I doubt they have that so tell them no..and tell the OSA no unless they volutarily disband and send the provincial money to the CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 ^^ Thanks very much for the info. Enough's enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Vic ^^ Thanks very much for the info. Enough's enough. Vic, there is truth in what Trillium says. However, it's not strictly a Western Canada issue...it happens everywhere. Thanks for the info Squid. I'll be doing my best to get into the OSA AGM as well. I can tell you that Montopoli and Hart will be presenting the CSA's plan to the delegates and will make the argument why they need the money. The dollar figure being requested is $4.00 per player for a total of $11.00 Anyone interested in this issue should be emailing the CSA to get a clear understanding of what this money is going to be earmarked for. I'm told its needed for youth elite programs but no further details have been provided to date. This is an important issue. I'm willing to listen to arguments from the CSA as to why the money is needed but I'd like this information before the local club AGM's that are coming up this month because this is needs to be an agenda item at every club AGM across the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 "It's for the children" I think that's a great idea, but I hope someone makes them put it in a trust fund and appoints a trustee, so it doesn't get rerouted to lawsuits and other mismanagement failures. Because I don't have a high degree of confidence that's not where it's going to end up, either by design, or happenstance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Vic "It's for the children" I think that's a great idea, but I hope someone makes them put it in a trust fund and appoints a trustee, so it doesn't get rerouted to lawsuits and other mismanagement failures. Because I don't have a high degree of confidence that's not where it's going to end up, either by design, or happenstance. When I say the money is earmarked for youth, I'm not so sure they are talking about "children" (i.e. under 12). I do agree that there needs to be some openness and accountability to ensure that whatever new funds are secured (if any) are put to use exactly where they are said to be needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I'm not sure earmarking the expanded fees, as opposed to lumping the increase into general revenue, would be enough for some people. Weren't we paying an extra $2 to the CSA on our player cards for a couple of years to help finance the FIFA U20 tournament? The most successful tourney of all time and the CSA walked away from it all without any sort of financial windfall. They came away from it with a lawsuit. Why would I trust that this organization is capable of using this tax increase effectively for it's intended purpose? Re; Player registrations. Can't say much on the youth side but this past year I found myself playing both indoor and outdoor football in leagues where I wasn't required to hold an MSA player card and so didn't renew mine. I'm quite sure I'm not alone in that experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 "It's for the children" is just a commonly used phrase sarcastically employed when people use kids (children, youth, teens, whatever) as a blind for their motives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Spiers Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Just to clarify a few points ... quote:Originally posted by squid2 The CSA's fart catchers have requested time & space at each provincial associaton's AGM for a Town Hall type meeting. I think it was more a case of the provincial associations insisting that the CSA go across the country to help sell their programme - as was done with the Blueprint some 7 or 8 years ago - rather than leaving it to the provincial associations. quote:Originally posted by squid2 Registration fee's (levy) are pretty much 50-55% of the CSA's annual revenue; in 2008 the CSA portion was $7.00 per player (I think mini was $4.00). CSA player fee is currently $7 across the board - mini to senior. quote:Originally posted by squid2 The CSA needs a $12-$15 increase to maintain "their programs". The OSA is limiting the increase to $5 in Ontario. Haven't heard any mention of a $12-$15 increase (although I'm sure they'd love to see that). A proposed $5 increase is all that is on the table. And to avoid any confusion, the current CSA fee is actually $6 with a temporary $1 increase approved for 2007 and again in 2008. So you may see reference to a $4 increase ($7 to $11) or a $5 increase ($6 to $11). Either way, an increase in the player fee to $11 is what they are looking for. quote:Originally posted by squid2 What amount will the OSA tack on; or, What % will the OSA retain? OSA has already built an inflation factor into their fee structure so that current programmes can be maintained. Inflation rate of 3.4% at Sept. 1/2008 will mean - for example - an increase from $2.30 to $2.38 for mini-soccer (to U-10); and an increase from $3.32 to $3.43 for mini-soccer and house-league (U-11 and up); and so on. The OSA will only come back to the membership if new programmes are introduced requiring a general fee increase. So any CSA fee increase will be considered on its own without the OSA tacking anything on. However, what will happen at the district and the club level I can't say. I've seen examples in the past of others using an OSA or CSA fee increase as an excuse for increasing their own fees - by considerably more than the OSA or CSA increase. quote:Originally posted by squid2 So why does the CSA need the increase? What will the funds be used for? How will the funds be allocated? What's the plan for the NTs'? I'm hoping the CSA will publish their new Strategic Plan - including financial projections - well ahead of the OSA AGM so people can see exactly what their plans are for the increased revenue they are requesting. quote:Originally posted by squid2 Just who will have access to these town hall meetings is an interesting question. I don't have an answer. I have not received an answer; regardless, I'll be crashing the Ontario Soccer Association's AGM on the weekend of November 8 & 9. Its being held at the Westin Hotel, out by the airport. http://www.soccer.on.ca/OSN.nsf/1422de1221eb9886852568170050f4f6/e24f078641b6afb68525681d0069c660?OpenDocument The Westin Bristol Place Toronto Airport 950 Dixon Road · Toronto, Phone: (416) 675-9444 I understand the CSA presentation will be on the Sunday morning. Clubs and districts will be able to register for this seminar/presentation - and any others they are interested in - in the usual way. So if you are interested, get in touch with your club or district. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 "I'm hoping the CSA will publish their new Strategic Plan - including financial projections..." Even if they do I doubt it will contain adequate detail and will be the usual, essentially meaningless, top level stuff. The CSA has a habit of failing to provide full financial disclosure, delivering the absolute minimum detail required by law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.T. Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 According to the OSA AGM Conference application form: ** Please Note ... the Seminars are open only to registered members of Clubs, Leagues, & District Associations affiliated with The OSA." Question for Bill: Does having 2 kids in house league qualify me as under "registered members of Clubs, Leagues, & District Associations affiliated with The OSA", or is it only open coaches, directors, administrators etc...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 ^ I'll sneak you in Lino...LOL (I'll say you were my assistant coach this season) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Richard "I'm hoping the CSA will publish their new Strategic Plan - including financial projections..." Even if they do I doubt it will contain adequate detail and will be the usual, essentially meaningless, top level stuff. The CSA has a habit of failing to provide full financial disclosure, delivering the absolute minimum detail required by law. The documentation I've seen is not detailed enough to really paint a clear picture. I'm sure there are more detailed plans and I'd like to see them published for all to digest. I was told by 2 high level OSA people that this information would be posted to the OSA website....Bill, would you know if this has happened yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 "The documentation I've seen is not detailed enough to really paint a clear picture." That is exactly my point. I anticipate another smoke and mirrors job by the CSA knobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Spiers Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 quote:Originally posted by L.T. According to the OSA AGM Conference application form: ** Please Note ... the Seminars are open only to registered members of Clubs, Leagues, & District Associations affiliated with The OSA." Question for Bill: Does having 2 kids in house league qualify me as under "registered members of Clubs, Leagues, & District Associations affiliated with The OSA", or is it only open coaches, directors, administrators etc...? I've always considered the parent or guardian of a minor soccer player to be the member of the club where their child plays. Although membership can differ from club to club, it appears this is the definition used by Woodbridge SC (if that's where your children play). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squid2 Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 evening Bill Thanks for the clarity posted above. Always good to have one of the fart-catchers chime in. You really need to keep harping on the OSA to clean up and streamline that sorry excuse for a website. Information, the financial stuff, is still hard to find. Is it true Cannovan is not leaving till he's picked his successor? More tail wagging the dog at the OSA. For a guy with an average grasp of the game, he sure does hold the OSA by the short & curlies. Not sure if you can answer this one, but worth asking, did the CSA remedy that faux pax with the Costra Rica pictures and the "SACK THE CSA" t-shirts in the background; is that one of the reasons the updated version of the Plan has not yet gone to reprint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squid2 Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by L.T. According to the OSA AGM Conference application form: ** Please Note ... the Seminars are open only to registered members of Clubs, Leagues, & District Associations affiliated with The OSA." Question for Bill: Does having 2 kids in house league qualify me as under "registered members of Clubs, Leagues, & District Associations affiliated with The OSA", or is it only open coaches, directors, administrators etc...? Take a copy of your club's constitution, rules & regulations, especially the portion that defines who is a member of your club. Most clubs don't issue pass books to house league coach's, not at $2 a pop! If you have your OSA passbook, take it. A blue version of a player's passbook was rolled out either this season or last. It's title is "Team Official Registration Book". Most clubs have a few blanks on hand. I've got mine, picture, stamped and all.... not sure about what the stamp says ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Spiers Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by squid2 Not sure if you can answer this one, but worth asking, did the CSA remedy that faux pax with the Costra Rica pictures and the "SACK THE CSA" t-shirts in the background; is that one of the reasons the updated version of the Plan has not yet gone to reprint? There have been several drafts or iterations of the CSA Strategic Plan. The offending photos only appeared in one of the versions and didn't appear in the next one after it was pointed out to them. The latest version - still not sure if it is the final version - has been in print for about a month now. Not sure what the delay is in making it generally available for review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by squid2 Thanks for the clarity posted above. Always good to have one of the fart-catchers chime in. Pretty strong words from the anonymous poster who teases us with small tidbits of info but never really goes the distance. You should grow some balls and let us know all your supposed 'secrets'. If you don't want to tell us, then don't lead us on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leekoo Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Richard "I'm hoping the CSA will publish their new Strategic Plan - including financial projections..." Even if they do I doubt it will contain adequate detail and will be the usual, essentially meaningless, top level stuff. The CSA has a habit of failing to provide full financial disclosure, delivering the absolute minimum detail required by law. it's Solicitation For Relief Two time ... it's pass the collection plate time again ... it's pass the collection plate for the elite players ... it's dig into your wallets for the recreational players ... roll back time to the turn of this century ... SFR ONE had holger doing the blueprint thing ... SFR ONE had jim fleming (former CSA boss) doing the sunday morning breakfast district/club meetup thing ... you bet the CSAs have a habit of failing to provide full financial disclosure ... you bet the CSAs deliver the absolute minimum detail to its soccer taxpayers ... the CSAs claim a tripling of its operating budget from 1999 to 2006 ... where are those numbers ... has anyone seen them ... has anyone studied them ... long live SFR TWO ... may the lord have mercy ... From Wellness To World Cup - Introduction While the Canadian game has a long history dating back to the close of the nineteenth century, soccer still does not command as much attention for public funding and national achievement as some other sports. Despite large numbers of youth participants nationwide, the Canadian game requires further financial support to encourage even more development. For example, the CSA tripled its operating budget between 1999 and 2006, but there is still need for increased funding throughout the soccer system in Canada. Care must be taken to ensure effective use of funds to support strong national programs, as opposed to redundant program development at the level of clubs, districts and provinces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 At my club in BC a parent/guardian of a current player is a member - should be across the board I'd think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack Pretty strong words from the anonymous poster who teases us with small tidbits of info but never really goes the distance. You should grow some balls and let us know all your supposed 'secrets'. If you don't want to tell us, then don't lead us on. Oh c'mon. I love squid2 and his fart catchers' exposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by bettermirror At my club in BC a parent/guardian of a current player is a member - should be across the board I'd think. Clubs - Depends on the Constitution as there are still several clubs in Greater Vancouver where the parents are not able to vote for their kids & neither is classed as a member. A case in point are the 2 youth clubs in Richmond BC (about 2000 players)of where the Coaches who are appointed by the Club Board are able to vote along w/ the Club Board & Club Key Volunteers. Parents can't for their kids nor can Senior Players vote for themselves. Youth Districts - Depends on the Constitution. Most Districts have Coaches of teams, District Key Volunteers & District Board Members who are the only members & who vote. Mind you some Districts like Referees who are paid vote. PSO's should have guidelines regarding how paid individuals vote or not due to conflict of interest. Out of the District & depending on the Districts player base determines how many District Board Members can vote at the Provincial General Meetings. Youth Districts in BC are formed based on Rule 23. Basically clubs are based on geography not on how successful they are managed or governed. There is no free market for a family to choose to go to another club outside of their District. Examples Richmond boys & girls (2 clubs) is one Youth District which basically forces families to stay in Richmond & they can't even vote. How does this help the development of the sport? You can go Out Of District (OOD)but the player has to be in the top % of the team to succeed. U16 down to U12 teams can have 3 OOD. Teams U17 & 18 5 OOD. Seniors in Clubs in BC - Depends on the Constitution. W/ the advent of cradle to grave clubs (youth & seniors), Seniors have been given the right to vote in some clubs. In the case of the Richmond girls club the Seniors (women) are not members who can vote. Youth District & Seniors in BC - Youth Districts & Seniors vote based on a formula not head to head. There is also a gentleman's agreement that Youth & Seniors don't vote on matters that just effect the others group. Pretty hard to move a sport forward where Youth & Seniors can't work together. Hence clubs have to change to be common for Youth & Seniors to demand changes. ABOVE PART OF THE CANADIAN PROBLEM - As I stated before the structure from Clubs to Districts to PSO to CSA is part of the Canadian problem of why there are so many problems. The overall scope lacks a standard structure that is operated or staff by experience or professional people in the areas of admin who are to manage the operations of the various parts. The Boards are to govern but like the operations side they need the sports background in management & experience to develop the Clubs, District & PSO & CSA. Case in point is that if the CSA was properly run it would probably only benefit the NT program's & very little else as there is no complete structure for those who manage & govern the pathways from top to bottom which effects development movement on all pathways.NOTE in BC the BCSA has given Provincial & National Development to the Whitecaps to run. Many volunteers are outstanding but in many areas the status quo is based upon what keeps the CSA Suits in power which is politics & power which has nothing to do w/ developing the sport(those that manage or govern) & athletes (elite & rec). IMO the easiest way for the sport to develop for all & to change the CSA is for the Clubs, Youth Districts & Seniors to take control of their votes & development. The only way for them to do that is for them to get together & create a template for how they work & are structured together for the sport. In some ways mirror what other sports have done in the way of Clubs, Districts & PSO to develop their sports. Remember Soccer is huge in Canada in the rec stage but they all disappear when they hit 18. Why? On the elite side they slowly disappear as they run out of development or employment pathways at 16 - 20. Why? Then we wonder why our NT's struggle If Clubs, Youth District & Seniors can't get together, it's up to Clubs to develop themselves into real clubs. They should have cradle to grave programs for both sexes & be like most sporting clubs by having core programs that are part of their membership & advanced programs that they pay for. The clubs should also, have clear development pathways in the club & outside of the club for those athletes who can go on to elite pathways to PT, NT, college & employment. More importantly clubs need a social component so families can grow up & be retained in clubs like other sporting clubs vs the academy structure (sessions / no pathway or levels) we now have Soccer clubs are at the stage where clubs have $400k to almost $1M to budget so how are they being managed & governed collectively is a key question in how it relates to moving the sport & athletes forward so the sport is a life style choice at the very least from top to bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by CoachRich Clubs - Depends on the Constitution as there are still several clubs in Greater Vancouver where the parents are not able to vote for their kids & neither is classed as a member. A case in point are the 2 youth clubs in Richmond BC (about 2000 players)of where the Coaches who are appointed by the Club Board are able to vote along w/ the Club Board & Club Key Volunteers. Parents can't for their kids nor can Senior Players vote for themselves. Hey Rich. I responded to your email as well - but for public consumption. When you refer to vote what exactly are you referring to? I was referring to voting on board members. Just so we are on the same page, is all. By senior player are you referring to adults? Probably an obvious answer for a dumb question! Thanks for posting all the other info you did. It's great knowledge worth spreading! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by bettermirror Hey Rich. I responded to your email as well - but for public consumption. When you refer to vote what exactly are you referring to? I was referring to voting on board members. Just so we are on the same page, is all. By senior player are you referring to adults? Probably an obvious answer for a dumb question! Thanks for posting all the other info you did. It's great knowledge worth spreading! Senior = player reg'ed on a adult team. They can be a youth player as they start playing Senior at 18 so their parent votes at a Club. Club - Depends on the Constitution but Members are usually voters (parents/guardians of youth players & key Club volunteers) at the AGM on resolutions to the Constitution & for electing Board Members. Some Clubs only let coaches & key volunteers vote giving no representation to those that pay, the kids. Some Cradle to Grave Clubs have Seniors voting on club matters that effect them. Youth Districts - Depends on the Constitution but Members who usually vote are usually coaches of teams, Club Reps, District Key Volunteers & District Board Members who vote at the AGM on resolutions to the Constitution & for electing District Board Members. Provincial (PSO) - Depends on the Constitution but Members who usually vote at the AGM are usually District Reps based on the number of players in their District & key PSO volunteers. In BC Senior players vote in their Teams so the Teams Rep can vote at the Senior League & then the Senior League votes at the PSO AGM. NOTE that Cradle to Grave Clubs in BC are trying to gain more of a foothold in Senior Leagues at the Graduate/U21 levels so there is a continuous development pathway from Cradle to Grave in those Clubs & the Leagues. There is no need development, management or governance wise for Youth & Senior Clubs/Senior Teams to operate as separate entities in the same sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.