TFC-Houston (R)

[Guest Ed]

Well I said that Toronto was absolutely woeful in their previous game but they came out fighting in this one. Unfortunate to not get 3 points but they just don't have a prayer with that backline.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Freeman saw his keeper getting back to his line when he missed that clearance. When he decided to play the ball back he assumed that he was still there and that was a correct assumption since Sutton didn't told him he was going to pick the ball. To me it's maybe 10% Freeman and 90 % Sutton and I feel generous.

You never assume anything, especially when playing in the defensive third of your pitch. Usually I have supported you on a number of your points pertaining to keepers and defenders in other situations, but I think you are way off base here. That was just a really poor decision by Freeman, plain and simple. We'll agree to disagree, respectfully of course.

Frankly, there was a daisy-chain of errors on that play, including Harmse's needless backpass to Sutton in the first place, Sutton's sliced clearence and subsequent questions about his communication and positioning.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA

You never assume anything, especially when playing in the defensive third of your pitch. Usually I have supported you on a number of your points pertaining to keepers and defenders in other situations, but I think you are way off base here. That was just a really poor decision by Freeman, plain and simple. We'll agree to disagree, respectfully of course.

Frankly, there was a daisy-chain of errors on that play, including Harmse's needless backpass to Sutton in the first place, Sutton's sliced clearence and subsequent questions about his communication and positioning.

I'll give you an example of players assuming things. When there's a shot coming in the direction of the middle of the net, defenders will often get out of the way to avoid a vicious deflection. You'll see that on a number of occasion if the defender isn't sure he'll be able to fully block the shot and if it's still comfortable for the keeper. At this point they are assuming, without looking, their keeper is in position. At 99.9 % of the time, the keeper is in the middle of his net.

I think you can draw similar parallel with what happened in the TFC game. In 99.9 % of the time the keeper is there in the middle of the goal, if he isn't he has told everybody he was out, something Sutton didn't do or didn't do quickly enough.

But yes of course, we can agree to disagree.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

I'll give you an example of players assuming things. When there's a shot coming in the direction of the middle of the net, defenders will often get out of the way to avoid a vicious deflection. You'll see that on a number of occasion if the defender isn't sure he'll be able to fully block the shot and if it's still comfortable for the keeper. At this point they are assuming, without looking, their keeper is in position. At 99.9 % of the time, the keeper is in the middle of his net.

I think you can draw similar parallel with what happened in the TFC game. In 99.9 % of the time the keeper is there in the middle of the goal, if he isn't he has told everybody he was out, something Sutton didn't do or didn't do quickly enough.

But yes of course, we can agree to disagree.

Needless to say that I dislike backpasses 99.9% of the time. Too many bad things can happen even when you can see the keeper who is the intended target of your pass: I harken back to our MNT with

Jazic, Stalteri, DeGuzman, et al, all of whom were involved in some atrocious plays involving backpasses. Too many things can go wrong.

Blind backpasses where you can't see your keeper, I dislike 100% of the time.

[jpg75]

Here's a first hand account that says he heard Sutton and Marshall calling off Freeman:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15864476&postcount=14

I have been reading this message board for a while but I have never wanted to respond to anything until now. I saw the play first hand as my season ticket is third row, just outside the 18 on the lowere level of the west side grandstand (the play happened right in front of me). I heard Sutton CLEARLY call for the ball and Marshall was CLEARLY yelling to Freeman "Don't touch it" because he knew Sutton was going for it. Freeman had plently of time to get out of the way. Considering I heard both Sutton and Marshall from my seat, there is no way Freeman did not hear them.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

Here's a first hand account that says he heard Sutton and Marshall calling off Freeman:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15864476&postcount=14

I have been reading this message board for a while but I have never wanted to respond to anything until now. I saw the play first hand as my season ticket is third row, just outside the 18 on the lowere level of the west side grandstand (the play happened right in front of me). I heard Sutton CLEARLY call for the ball and Marshall was CLEARLY yelling to Freeman "Don't touch it" because he knew Sutton was going for it. Freeman had plently of time to get out of the way. Considering I heard both Sutton and Marshall from my seat, there is no way Freeman did not hear them.

Interesting.

If that's the case it's Freeman's fault 100 %. But from the MLS website highlights clip I think I could hear Sutton calling for it but it seemed way too late IMO.