TFC-Houston (R)

[nolando]

Onstad sings the US Anthem. wtf?

What a hilarious OG by Freeman. Too bad, as toronto had a decent start.

[ag futbol]

Funny how when I coach U-16's i can tell them to head it back wide of the net if they try that. I guess Freeman never got that memo.

Guevara looks like he's up for it today.

[loyola]

Goal is Sutton's fault, no communication whatsoever (not the first time we see that with Sutton). If you're coming out of your net like that, at least tell your defense....

[loyola]

Final score 1-1.

Nice goal by Wynne to even the score.

[loyola]

Final score 1-1.

Nice goal by Wynne to even the score.

[TFC07]

Mo promised a DP for next season???

Anyway, TFC played well for their standards. I don't understand why that Hunter guy didn't get subbed off for.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Goal is Sutton's fault, no communication whatsoever (not the first time we see that with Sutton). If you're coming out of your net like that, at least tell your defense....

At best he is partly at fault (assuming he didn't give his teammate a shout) for the lack of communication - as a defender you never do a no-look backwards header into your own net, because you never know where your keeper might be. Freeman didn't take one look back at where he was heading the ball to until after he headed it, he had no clue where his keeper was and I still can't figure out why he didn't head the ball to any of his open teammates that he could actually see, given that there were plenty of them around.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

At best he is partly at fault (assuming he didn't give his teammate a shout) for the lack of communication - as a defender you never do a no-look backwards header into your own net, because you never know where your keeper might be. Freeman didn't take one look back at where he was heading the ball to until after he headed it, he had no clue where his keeper was and I still can't figure out why he didn't head the ball to any of his open teammates that he could actually see, given that there were plenty of them around.

That's a routine play that you see all the time. Sutton isn't suppose to be in Freeman's back unless he's going to pick the ball and had call for it. Something Sutton did at the last second (when the ball was on his defender head). Poor communication.

Also, it's a bad clearance from Sutton who led to the play.

Sutton had a solid second half though.

[Gian-Luca]

It's poor communication by Sutton but it's just as poor a play from Freeman. He said he though Sutton was on his line but you can't think that if you are going to send the ball back there without looking, you have to know that. Sutton had already come off his line to make (what was ultimately a poor clearance) so Freeman should have checked first. Not looking to where it is you are passing, especially in the direction of your own goal, is not "routine" in any way. The ball was high enough in the air that he had plenty of time to do so.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

It's poor communication by Sutton but it's just as poor a play from Freeman. He said he though Sutton was on his line but you can't think that if you are going to send the ball back there without looking, you have to know that. Sutton had already come off his line to make (what was ultimately a poor clearance) so Freeman should have checked first. Not looking to where it is you are passing, especially in the direction of your own goal, is not "routine" in any way. The ball was high enough in the air that he had plenty of time to do so.

When you don't hear your keeper calling for the ball, it's because he's on his line. There was 1 or 2 other no look clearance in the game. If Sutton would've communicated his intention to collect the ball earlier as he should do, we wouldn't be talking about the play as it would've looked pretty routine.

Freeman can't assume his keeper isn't on his line because he hasn't heard a shout (until the ball was on his head, which was too late) and keepers are always at the same position unless they're notifying you they are coming for the ball.

JDV said in the commetary that it looked like bad communication from Sutton.

[Cheeta]

Great goal by Wynne. Shocked everybody on the pitch, in the stands, and probably himself when he turned and took one on that crap left foot of his. Well done. Wynne's had a hard year but he always so game it's hard to stay disappointed in him for long so you can't but feel good for him.

Horrible own goal by Freeman and quite honestly I'm 100% with loyola on this. I'm pretty certain Freeman isn't deaf as a stone so I doubt there was a call from Sutton, who as he advanced off his line must have been able to clearly see Freeman gaining position for the ball. Simply called for it way too late (if at all).

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

When you don't hear your keeper calling for the ball, it's because he's on his line. There was 1 or 2 other no look clearance in the game. If Sutton would've communicated his intention to collect the ball earlier as he should do, we wouldn't be talking about the play as it would've looked pretty routine.

Freeman can't assume his keeper isn't on his line because he hasn't heard a shout (until the ball was on his head, which was too late) and keepers are always at the same position unless they're notifying you they are coming for the ball.

JDV said in the commetary that it looked like bad communication from Sutton.

i must agree with Loyola...if the keeper intends to come out for the ball, he makes it known. If he's quiet, it normally means he's positioned on his line. That's what I was always taught when I played and its been repeated a few times in coaching clinics I've taken.

Sutton screwed up....whatever...he was good overall this game.

I've been very critical of this team the past 2 months but, in fairness, they gave an honest effort on Saturday.

The talent is still nowhere near good enough for this team to contend for anything but last or 2nd last in the league but at least, in front of a full house, they worked pretty hard against the best team in the West and got a fair result. I don't think they were good enough to win but it would have been unjust had Houston managed to sneak a goal past Sutton in the dying moments, like has happened several times this season.

Is it just me or do any others think that if Wynne had that same opportunity from 20 yards out, he's probably only score 2 or 3 times out of 10? It was a very nice goal BUT I still dont expect to see him filling up the score sheet very often.

[Whither Canada]

Wynne did a sideline interview right after the games and he was quite funny talking about his goal.

I'm paraphrasing but it was something like "I'd love to say I took the ball at the 18-yard box and noticed the keeper off his line and chipped it in....but really I just put my head down and kicked it". Very good goal though.

Not sure if it's good or bad the way he danced around DeRo before the shot. I guess that's not DeRo's job though, is it.

[Sam]

quote:Originally posted by Whither Canada

Wynne did a sideline interview right after the games and he was quite funny talking about his goal.

I'm paraphrasing but it was something like "I'd love to say I took the ball at the 18-yard box and noticed the keeper off his line and chipped it in....but really I just put my head down and kicked it". Very good goal though.

Not sure if it's good or bad the way he danced around DeRo before the shot. I guess that's not DeRo's job though, is it.

DeRo didn't want to get into a tough tackle and get injured so he will be ready for Mexico

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

When you don't hear your keeper calling for the ball, it's because he's on his line.

No, you might think he is but as a defender you don't know for sure, especially when you last see him off the line seconds before. Obviously Sutton wasn't in this situation. There's no reason for a defender not to take a quick look if he's going to make that play, especially with at least four other safer options he had at his disposal and plenty of time to make the look.

No-one is saying Sutton is not at fault, what I find bizarre is this insistence that it's completely his fault and to exonerate Freeman completely for a bone-head amateurish move. Even if he was on his line a no-look backwards header would have been the wrong move to make. It makes as much sense as no-look back-heels at your own goal, and how many of those do you see good defenders make? None.

[VPjr]

I PVR'd the game yesterday and just sat down to rewatch the match (or most of it...first half was pretty dreadful).

It really struck me just how important Danny Dichio is to TFC. He truly is the straw that stirs the drink. He executes his responsibilities on the pitch better than any other TFC player does, hands down. If only he could stay have stayed healthy this season (and if he were a touch younger and a bit quicker). I hope they keep him around for 1 more year but maybe limit his playing time (maybe institute an Alex Fergusonesque rotation policy) to try to keep him as healthy as possible. He really is a pro's pro.

Also, on second viewing, I'm convinced that young Chad Barrett is quite crap. I know they signed him to a 4 year contract but I'd have no issue whatsoever if he was plucked off the roster

If I was running this team, the only players I'd protect in the upcoming expansion draft would be:

Sutton

Edwards

Brennan

Wynne

Dunivant

Guevara

Harmse

Ricketts

Robinson

Dichio

Ibrahim

(I'm not sure if Dev or Gen Adidas players need to be protected. If they do, I'd adjust the list somewhat because I'd hate to lose any of the young Canucks).

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

No, you might think he is but as a defender you don't know for sure, especially when you last see him off the line seconds before. Obviously Sutton wasn't in this situation. There's no reason for a defender not to take a quick look if he's going to make that play, especially with at least four other safer options he had at his disposal and plenty of time to make the look.

No-one is saying Sutton is not at fault, what I find bizarre is this insistence that it's completely his fault and to exonerate Freeman completely for a bone-head amateurish move. Even if he was on his line a no-look backwards header would have been the wrong move to make. It makes as much sense as no-look back-heels at your own goal, and how many of those do you see good defenders make? None.

As a defender you know that your keeper is on his line (that was where Sutton was before he started coming out for the ball, when the Houston player heads the ball Sutton is on his line) in situation like that unless he just came out far from his net (wasn't the case). So a no look back pass isn't a dangerous play. It became dangerous when Sutton decided to come out for the ball without making it clear to his defense that he wanted the ball.

I've rewatch the goal a few times now and I can't fault Freeman, looks like a pretty safe play with proper communication.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

I've rewatch the goal a few times now and I can't fault Freeman, looks like a pretty safe play with proper communication.

I don't think a blind, headed backpass is a safe play at anytime, regardless of the communication.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA

I don't think a blind, headed backpass is a safe play at anytime, regardless of the communication.

Obviously. These guys are blowing my mind with this crap about where the keeper is supposed to be. All grade school stuff, and these are pros. Can we please stop with the amateur lessons about keeping?

To top it off the back pass should be soft, not hard enough to get into goal, and ideally off the net, even if you don't look, so if the keeper misses it rolls to an opposing corner. But not looking is the error, an amateur one: the own goal belongs 95% to the defender, and 5% to the physios who did not work out that spot on his neck that says "turn me".

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

To top it off the back pass should be soft, not hard enough to get into goal, and ideally off the net, even if you don't look, so if the keeper misses it rolls to an opposing corner. But not looking is the error, an amateur one: the own goal belongs 95% to the defender, and 5% to the physios who did not work out that spot on his neck that says "turn me".

I think that's the point that's being missed here. Freeman really cranked it off his head. No way should a backpass be hit so hard that it goes that high. Usually it's just a roll-off-the-head tap-back.

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

To top it off the back pass should be soft, not hard enough to get into goal, and ideally off the net, even if you don't look, so if the keeper misses it rolls to an opposing corner. But not looking is the error, an amateur one: the own goal belongs 95% to the defender, and 5% to the physios who did not work out that spot on his neck that says "turn me".

I think that's the point that's being missed here. Freeman really cranked it off his head. No way should a backpass be hit so hard that it goes that high. Usually it's just a roll-off-the-head tap-back.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by El Hombre

I think that's the point that's being missed here. Freeman really cranked it off his head. No way should a backpass be hit so hard that it goes that high. Usually it's just a roll-off-the-head tap-back.

If the back pass was hit softly it would've been dangerous that a Houston player would get ot it in the present situation.

The back pass was a bit of a balloon and it made one bounce before it reached the net.

I repeat what I've been saying, if Sutton would've been "on his line" (That means 1-2 meters in front of his net) this play would've never looked dangerous. No Dynamo players in the box in between Freeman and his keeper. Though, it's true that a back pass shouldn't usually be hit in the direction of the net but in that situation it looked easy to deal with the situation if it wasn't for Sutton coming out of his line.

Jeffrey S. call me amateur I have no problem with it but tell us where the keeper is supposed to be in that situation. Where the great La Liga keepers will be in a similar situation? Near the corner kick I guess? It's goalkeeping 101 that a keeper starting position should be in the middle of his goal and then moves accordingly depending on the play. Should he really be 9-10 yards out of his net? Is a late call for a high ball good communication?

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

If the back pass was hit softly it would've been dangerous that a Houston player would get ot it in the present situation.

The back pass was a bit of a balloon and it made one bounce before it reached the net.

I repeat what I've been saying, if Sutton would've been "on his line" (That means 1-2 meters in front of his net) this play would've never looked dangerous. No Dynamo players in the box in between Freeman and his keeper.

Jeffrey S. call me amateur I have no problem with it but tell us where the keeper is supposed to be in that situation. Where the great La Liga keepers will be in a similar situation? Near the corner kick I guess? It's goalkeeping 101 that a keeper starting position should be in the middle of his goal and then moves accordingly depending on the play. Should he really be 9-10 yards out of his net? Is a late call for a high ball good communication?

Pro football 101 is pass to a real human being, not a fictitious grade-school theory. Theories are slow reacting, and their boots are bit soft.

The theory cannot control the ball wide on the wing if the winger is back defending, and the theory cannot jump for the cross at the far post if the real striker is making a run to the near post. Bad players, and amateurs especially, send poor passes to places they think one of their teammates should be, in theory. Then they make gestures to the real players saying "you should be there", "why weren't you there?", "I thought you were up on that side". That is why they are amateurs, because they are not quick enough to react to the flow of play in reality, which is part of a basic pro skill set. And they are not talented enough to pass to a foot, which is why they play into a zone (zone offense if the typical resource of amateur teams and poor quality pick-up soccer, based mostly on passing "over to that area where we should have some guys").

I have been lucky enough to watch some of the great "blind" passers in world football over the past 20 years (Laudrup and Ronaldinho, if you don't remember how Laudrup played then look for clips as he was amazing, while Ronnie made passes off his back, running away from the ball), and I can assure you they always knew where they were going, because they had looked first, well before. Not even the greatest blind passers in football pass blindly.

Mediocre defenders shouldn't either, especially in the critical zone.

Sutton would have been better on his line in the middle of the goal, you are right. He also could have said something to his defender, though if the play looks clear usually you do not say anything as that could also throw your teammate off. I saw Sutton vs. Caps this year and he is not a commanding presence in goal, he is relatively passive given his size, and overly silent. Give him a bit of responsiblity on the goal then, but give the player heading it blindly over to the guy with the name "THEORY" on his back the lion's share.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Pro football 101 is pass to a real human being, not a fictitious grade-school theory. Theories are slow reacting, and their boots are bit soft.

The theory cannot control the ball wide on the wing if the winger is back defending, and the theory cannot jump for the cross at the far post if the real striker is making a run to the near post. Bad players, and amateurs especially, send poor passes to places they think one of their teammates should be, in theory. Then they make gestures to the real players saying "you should be there", "why weren't you there?", "I thought you were up on that side". That is why they are amateurs, because they are not quick enough to react to the flow of play in reality, which is part of a basic pro skill set. And they are not talented enough to pass to a foot, which is why they play into a zone (zone offense if the typical resource of amateur teams and poor quality pick-up soccer, based mostly on passing "over to that area where we should have some guys").

Sutton would have been better on his line in the middle of the goal, you are right. He also could have said something to his defender, though if the play looks clear usually you do not say anything as that could also throw your teammate off. I saw Sutton vs. Caps this year and he is not a commanding presence in goal, he is relatively passive given his size, and overly silent. Give him a bit of responsiblity on the goal then, but give the player heading it blindly over to the guy with the name "THEORY" on his back the lion's share.

I get what you're saying about players passing but this is goalkeeping we are talking about. These guys (keepers) are always at the same place in that situation UNLESS they tell you otherwise.

I fully agree with you on your assessment of players passing where they think a teammate should be, those plays enraged me. But goalkeeping is a totally different animal, you can't make that comparaison. It's not like keepers are making run for through balls....

Freeman saw his keeper getting back to his line when he missed that clearance. When he decided to play the ball back he assumed that he was still there and that was a correct assumption since Sutton didn't told him he was going to pick the ball. To me it's maybe 10% Freeman and 90 % Sutton and I feel generous.

Well, you're now saying that great passers have looked first. Like I said Freeman did have a look a second or 2 earlier and since we're talking about a keeper, he had no reasons to believe that his keeper was out of his net.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by El Hombre

I think that's the point that's being missed here. Freeman really cranked it off his head. No way should a backpass be hit so hard that it goes that high. Usually it's just a roll-off-the-head tap-back.

And if you absolutely must crank it backwards without looking(instead of looking first, or heading softly, or heading it forward to a teammate or heading it upfield into open space, or simply chesting the ball & controlling and passing it), then as has been mentioned, crank it away from goal (rather at the goal) where the keeper can run and collect it - the worst that can happen in that situation is a corner kick, which is certainly better than a crowd-deflating own-goal against.