CanadianSoccerFan Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 For a while now he's been saying he wants in and can be ready by 2009. And now he's saying this:http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=c5086e50-f2cc-466e-9e03-12c41d6dfb44 quote: Q: Is the future of the franchise necessarily in Major League Soccer? A: There may be other options out there and we have to explore all the different ones. Right now, we're fine where we are. There is the aspect of MLS that's looming and we're going to take a look at that. Does it mean we're going to go into it at all costs? Not necessarily, but the soccer landscape is going to change over the next couple of years and we have to be smart and financially responsible about the decisions we make. Is Joey cooling his interest in MLS with the continually rising franchise fee or is it just lip service? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Looking to get a discount deal on the expansion fee I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis_Rancagua Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 He's being very wishy and washy here indeed. I hope that he doesn't blow it. It will certainly be a huge blow for Montreal and Canadian soccer all together. Com'on Joey, what the f... are you doing. Why would you like to play for the rest of your life in the USL1. Your fans are going to realise it, and eventually they will abandon you by not attending your games at Saputo Stadium. The fans want 1st class, and the only 1st class system out there in North America is MLS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Luis_Rancagua He's being very wishy and washy here indeed. I hope that he doesn't blow it. It will certainly be a huge blow for Montreal and Canadian soccer all together. Com'on Joey, what the f... are you doing. Why would you like to play for the rest of your life in the USL1. Your fans are going to realise it, and eventually they will abandon you by not attending your games at Saputo Stadium. The fans want 1st class, and the only 1st class system out there in North America is MLS. The test is going on now with the Champions league if Joey draws well he might go MLS.. if he does not he knows he will stay USL and try to build things by qualifying for Champions league year after year .. putting money into players etc.. invest forty million at five percent and you have 2 million to toss at talent every year.. mm what is the current MLS cap ? Joey is not dumb and his dad is even less dumb.. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Ault Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Trillium invest forty million at five percent and you have 2 million to toss at talent every year.. mm what is the current MLS cap ? Ah but buy a MLS franchise three years ago for $15m sell today for $40m.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share Posted September 23, 2008 Staying in a league that may cease to exist in 5 years is dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 All this talk of CDN teams joining MLS makes me realize that we should form our own league instead. MLS is an awful league in general! Their (bush league) rules don't give enough freedom to teams to do their own thing. So I don't blame Joey having 2nd thoughts about paying $40 million to join a league like MLS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis_Rancagua Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by TFC07 All this talk of CDN teams joining MLS makes me realize that we should form our own league instead. MLS is an awful league in general! Their (bush league) rules don't give enough freedom to teams to do their own thing. So I don't blame Joey having 2nd thoughts about paying $40 million to join a league like MLS. So what are you suggesting here, that Joey stays in a mediocrate league such as the USL1 that may not exist in the next 5 years. If that is the case, then he's making a huge mistake, and a really stupid one. You got to think big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Luis_Rancagua So what are you suggesting here, that Joey stays in a mediocrate league such as the USL1 that may not exist in the next 5 years. If that is the case, then he's making a huge mistake, and a really stupid one. You got to think big. I am suggesting that we should form our own league (Canadian Premier Soccer league) instead of joining an American league. MLS isn't well run league and most of teams in MLS aren't even making profit as we speak. Soccer in USA in general, doesn't have a chance to become big as basketball, football and baseball unlike in Canada where soccer can become one of the most popular sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Blablabla. Saputo always keeps things close to the vest. Hell, if it wasn't for a leak (on the Habs side!), we wouldn't even know about the Gillett partnership and bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 But is there any evidence that you can actually sell an existing franchise for $40 million? Haven't done the math but I suspect the future value of $15 million invested when combined with losses of about $5 million per year for four years would be $40million or more. It doesn't really strike me as a surefire investment. quote:Originally posted by Bill Ault Ah but buy a MLS franchise three years ago for $15m sell today for $40m.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Montreal will die if they don't go MLS. They can't keep playing in a MLS size stadium and expect to sell out in a league where average attendances and facilities are much lower. Saputo really is a bit of a slime ball eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Luis_Rancagua So what are you suggesting here, that Joey stays in a mediocrate league such as the USL1 that may not exist in the next 5 years. If that is the case, then he's making a huge mistake, and a really stupid one. You got to think big. Hey Luis I thought that you hated MLS. whatever happenned CUSL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis_Rancagua Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Free kick Hey Luis I thought that you hated MLS. whatever happenned CUSL? You could also call me Sarah Palin with the highway to nowhere. I was in favor and now I'm oppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis_Rancagua Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Free kick Hey Luis I thought that you hated MLS. whatever happenned CUSL? You could also call me Sarah Palin with the highway to nowhere. I was in favor and now I'm oppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by leafdolfan Montreal will die if they don't go MLS. They can't keep playing in a MLS size stadium and expect to sell out in a league where average attendances and facilities are much lower. Saputo really is a bit of a slime ball eh? Saputo should do what is best for Canadian soccer and that is to stay the hell away from MLS. We need our own league or, at worst, 6-8 teams in USL1. MLS is bad for Canadian soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 ^ Take it easy, there are only 11 teams in USL-1 across the whole of USA and Canada and at least two of those will be gone by 2011 though a couple of new ones might materialise! If the USA can only support about 9 or 10 USL-1 clubs what makes you think Canada, with 1/10th of the population, could possibly support 6-8 teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Richard ^ Take it easy, there are only 11 teams in USL-1 across the whole of USA and Canada and at least two of those will be gone by 2011 though a couple of new ones might materialise! If the USA can only support about 9 or 10 USL-1 clubs what makes you think Canada, with 1/10th of the population, could possibly support 6-8 teams? Yeah. Furthermore why do names such as Eugene Melnyk, MLSEL, and George Gillet only surface when we are talking about Major League soccer. Not even the existing USL owners ( at time ) were interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpenza Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I don't know if you guys noticed how Garber has been recently talking about the Canadian market as a whole, repeating over and over that he's looking into it but that they need to see if it can work as a business... I quote a recent article : "Clearly with Canada we've got to ensure that we can create a Canadian business with national television partners and national sponsors and broad municipal, political and corporate support," Garber said. "We know that we can create the success locally that exists in Toronto, but we need to ensure that are able to transcend simple fan-following into a viable business. "We are spending time working on that and ensuring that we can go to market with a new approach, which is not just 11 or 13 MLS teams and one Canadian team, but potentially more American teams but even more Canadian teams. That's something we have been working on for the last number of months." Wouldn't be surprised if it was the start of something much bigger than just a franchise-by-franchise thing for Canada... There's obviously a broader plan behind this, or else they wouldn't have been "working on [it] for the last number of months". Now I don't know what it means exactly, but it seems to go beyond Saputo's, Kerfoot's or Melnyk's bid... It really looks like those three are part of something broader than the usual bid/franchise awarded pattern we've seen so far as far as MLS expansion goes. If the Canadian market indeed is viable, I believe we can count on Montreal, Vancouver AND Ottawa to be a part of MLS within a few years, because MLS won't pass on the opportunity, in my opinion. It really sounds like MLS is looking into developing Canadian soccer... as long as it brings them benefits, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by VPjr MLS is bad for Canadian soccer. You've been repeating this statement like it's some kind of mantra for some time now so it appears you are serious about it. MLS (or more specifically TFC) hasn't been as good for Canadian soccer players or the national team as I would have liked thus far (and it's early days still in the grand scheme of things), but to say it is bad for soccer in Canada in general is at best completely over the top, and at worst, simply un-true. It wouldn't be too difficult to list all of the positive things that have happened to soccer in Canada has a result of MLS coming to Canada, but I'd be hard pressed to think of much that could be said to be bad for Canadian soccer because of MLS, certainly nowhere near the extent that it could come anywhere close to outweighing the plethora of positives that could be listed. The only bad thing that might happen, and it is still a big if at this stage, is the Whitecaps residency program being made into a non-residency academy. Other than that, could you point us to how things have been made worse by MLS coming to Canada and being very successful here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Richard ^ Take it easy, there are only 11 teams in USL-1 across the whole of USA and Canada and at least two of those will be gone by 2011 though a couple of new ones might materialise! If the USA can only support about 9 or 10 USL-1 clubs what makes you think Canada, with 1/10th of the population, could possibly support 6-8 teams? I'm not saying that Canada could</u> support 6-8 USL1 teams but I sure would like to see it happen. I know I'm dreaming in technicolour but this is my vision: - Whitecaps and Impact stay in USL1 - a new USL1 club in the Toronto area (905 likely). - a USL1 club in Ottawa and somewhere in Southwestern Ontario (i.e. London or Hamilton) - a USl1 club in Alberta (Calgary is cheaper for other teams to travel) - a USL1 club in Quebec City (I know....Saputo won't allow it but I'm allowed to dream) I'm not saying its going to happen but I think it should. MLS doesn't care about Canadian soccer. USL doesn't care either but at least the rules allow for the development of a proper club. TFC is not a club...it's a team. It's academy is for show...the rules are stacked against TFC ever being able to really use the Academy to develop players for the senior team or to sell them. I've asked this questions a few times with no answer...will Whitecaps be able to continue to run its academy in the same way it does now under MLS rules? I think it can't. I think the Academy would need to exist as a seperate entity, outside the normal organization and they would not be able to graduate a player to the senior side, as they have done already, unless that player is in the Academy for 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Mpenza I don't know if you guys noticed how Garber has been recently talking about the Canadian market as a whole, repeating over and over that he's looking into it but that they need to see if it can work as a business... I quote a recent article : "Clearly with Canada we've got to ensure that we can create a Canadian business with national television partners and national sponsors and broad municipal, political and corporate support," Garber said. "We know that we can create the success locally that exists in Toronto, but we need to ensure that are able to transcend simple fan-following into a viable business. "We are spending time working on that and ensuring that we can go to market with a new approach, which is not just 11 or 13 MLS teams and one Canadian team, but potentially more American teams but even more Canadian teams. That's something we have been working on for the last number of months." Wouldn't be surprised if it was the start of something much bigger than just a franchise-by-franchise thing for Canada... There's obviously a broader plan behind this, or else they wouldn't have been "working on [it] for the last number of months". Now I don't know what it means exactly, but it seems to go beyond Saputo's, Kerfoot's or Melnyk's bid... It really looks like those three are part of something broader than the usual bid/franchise awarded pattern we've seen so far as far as MLS expansion goes. If the Canadian market indeed is viable, I believe we can count on Montreal, Vancouver AND Ottawa to be a part of MLS within a few years, because MLS won't pass on the opportunity, in my opinion. It really sounds like MLS is looking into developing Canadian soccer... as long as it brings them benefits, of course. Yeah, I posted that article in another thread. I agree with you, I think they know they are on to something good here and that soccer is general more mainstream popular in the big Canadian cities than it is in the US, and they think they can make money here. The fact that Garber's comments above were being made to the Seattle press suggests that his comments were not there simply to give Canadians what they wanted to hear. The other thing Ottawa's bid has done IMO is to ensure that at least one more Canadian team will get an MLS team by 2011. As far as I know the deadline for franchise applications is October 15th and I think the only three bids submitted so far are Canadian. Even if some American ones come in (and how many are in a position to be ready) I can't imagine they are going to ignore all three Canadian bids this time round, especially when they know that the time is right and they can make money up here. Here's an Melnyk interview where he says even if he doens't get in for 2011, he thinks it will just be a matter of time: http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/blogs/2008/09/21/johnston_melnyk_blog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca You've been repeating this statement like it's some kind of mantra for some time now so it appears you are serious about it. MLS (or more specifically TFC) hasn't been as good for Canadian soccer players or the national team as I would have liked thus far (and it's early days still in the grand scheme of things), but to say it is bad for soccer in Canada in general is at best completely over the top, and at worst, simply un-true. It wouldn't be too difficult to list all of the positive things that have happened to soccer in Canada has a result of MLS coming to Canada, but I'd be hard pressed to think of much that could be said to be bad for Canadian soccer because of MLS, certainly nowhere near the extent that it could come anywhere close to outweighing the plethora of positives that could be listed. The only bad thing that might happen, and it is still a big if at this stage, is the Whitecaps residency program being made into a non-residency academy. Other than that, could you point us to how things have been made worse by MLS coming to Canada and being very successful here? I judge the value of TFC to Canadian soccer differently now that I've had two years to look at it and get my thoughts together. At first, I was just really happy to have a professional team back in Toronto. However, the initial happiness has been replaced by frustration and resentment. As I've learned more about the league and its structure and the way it limits the ambitions of its member teams, I realize that the MLS does Canada very little good other than give some mainstream exposure to the sport. I don't believe the priorities of the league mesh with what is needed for Canadian soccer. There is no doubt we need pro soccer in Canada and MLS is pro soccer. But the league's rules are such that what we have are stand alone teams, not clubs. The league can talk all it wants to about its academies and its commitment to developing players but its hogwash. The league's academy setup provides no incentive to clubs to really invest in youth development. These players are not the property of the club and, hell, TFC-A players have already begun to realize that the Whitecaps program is a better avenue for professional development. I don't expect that many people will agree with me but they don't have to. I've just become convinced that MLS is not the answer for Canadian soccer. The league does a lot of things well enough (although the standard of play really is still quite mediocre, although maybe I saw that because I watch too much TFC) but more MLS teams will not fundamentally improve the state of the sport in Canada. It might make money for the owners (nothing wrong with that)and it will result in more facilities to get built (which is a very positive thing). But beyond that, I don't see how Canadian players and coaches will benefit more from MLS than they would from USL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca And if I were ( for argument's sake ) to draw up a list of negatives, I'd be hard pressed to see how those negatives were absent before MLS came to town. For example, the excessive league imposed restriction on how to develop talent. But did we even have an club academent for a pro club before MLS came to town? Did the Whitecaps even have one before they became interested in MLS? Then there is the matter of Canadian content. Of course, there are fewer cnds on the clubs than many of us would like. But how many national teams calibre players were playing for the Lynx in their final years. Whereas the club has for jobs for the like of Brennan, Sutton and rosenlund. Not to be forgotten, some key players in the next u20 team who would ahve otherwise have had to leave home. thats about half dozen more than what we had before. Looking at it in that light, I dont think that I can come up with negatives. No matter how much I try As for all the positives, there are just too many to mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by VPjr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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