Ottawa MLS

[Soccerpro]

As I watch the crap put on the field week in and week out better known as Toronto FC and a few of the other teams in the MLS which are brutal to watch I'm feeling more strongly that this league needs to improve the product it's putting on the pitch. With expansion coming quickly I'm wondering who the hell they're going to be putting out there to play.

MLS needs to raise the salary cap soon. But I fear some owners and potential owners ie MLSE are only view their team as a cash cow and if the salary cap was increased would they actually add salary to improve their squad. Then you look at teams still losing lots of money and ask if they would add salary if were given the chance? Im not sure the answer would be yes.

And I absolutely do not believe that MLS academy's will be the answer to putting better players on the pitch in the coming years. This league needs to come up with some answers...

[Richard]

^ As I watch TFC games on TV week in and week out I have to agree there is definitely an issue with onfield quality in MLS which expansion without raising the salary cap will not improve. Youth development academies should be obligatory for all MLS clubs for the good of the game but they will not solve short term quality problems like this.

[Bill Ault]

quote:Originally posted by Soccerpro

MLS needs to raise the salary cap soon. But I fear some owners and potential owners ie MLSE are only view their team as a cash cow and if the salary cap was increased would they actually add salary to improve their squad. Then you look at teams still losing lots of money and ask if they would add salary if were given the chance? Im not sure the answer would be yes.

Not sure many look at a pro soccer franchise in North America as a cash cow. It's not the annual loss of money that matters as much to these guys as the value of the franchise. Many teams in many sports lose money on a year to year basis but the value of those franchises if the owner was to sell is what matters.

I agree the salary cap needs adjustment but it needs to be adjusted not thrown away - a day of reckoning is coming even for the Euro leagues with regards to salaries so there is no need for MLS to blow their brains out.

Could Toronto FC be better undoubtedly, should thye be better at this point I would argue no that for a second year franchise they are about where I'd expect and Soccerpro as you are well aware NO pro franchise survives on their academy alone so why would we expect that to be different in orth America?

[Toronto Ruffrider]

quote:

And I absolutely do not believe that MLS academy's will be the answer to putting better players on the pitch in the coming years. This league needs to come up with some answers...

I for one would like to see MLS phase out the draft. With the draft gone, teams will have much greater incentive to develop their own talent. The draft is based on the collegiate system in the US anyway, so it doesn't really benefit Canadian teams.

[Soccerpro]

quote:Originally posted by Bill Ault

Not sure many look at a pro soccer franchise in North America as a cash cow. It's not the annual loss of money that matters as much to these guys as the value of the franchise. Many teams in many sports lose money on a year to year basis but the value of those franchises if the owner was to sell is what matters.

I agree the salary cap needs adjustment but it needs to be adjusted not thrown away - a day of reckoning is coming even for the Euro leagues with regards to salaries so there is no need for MLS to blow their brains out.

Could Toronto FC be better undoubtedly, should thye be better at this point I would argue no that for a second year franchise they are about where I'd expect and Soccerpro as you are well aware NO pro franchise survives on their academy alone so why would we expect that to be different in orth America?

Im not suggesting that the salary cap be done away with, or raised by 10 times the current amount. But the amount of money offered to other than the highest paid 2 or 3 guys on each team isnt enough to draw many high quality professionals that would otherwise consider playing here.

Bill you raise a good point about franchise value.

In regards to the academy comment, I raised it because I think many people here believe the acadamies are going to produce the majority of the first team for each MLS club in a few years and I disagree with that.

Firstly, in North America parents and families are focused on education first and foremost, unlike many other parts of the world parents and kids arent willing to give everything up to take the risk of an MLS pro career via the academy route. It can't be compared to major junior hockey, a sport and concept where there is a higher chance at making a living with the game and a game which is the backbone of Canadian culture, along with paying for players university after they finish if they dont go on to pro hockey.

Secondly, many academies in leagues around the world take in the top talents of foriegn countries (outside of their own)and nuture and groom them. Many of these players live and breathe soccer and have nothing to fall back on.I dont see that happening here. No talents are going to be scouted and from South Africa and come for residency in Toronto as an outstanding talent like in many top pro leagues.

Thirdly, in many top leagues, how many players from the academy make up the bulk of the squad? Look at the English Premier league and your answer is not many. You can argue thats a poor comparison given the money those clubs have and they have no nationality restrictions, but they go out and get the best players available from around the world. Clubs like Toronto FC dont seem to be getting the best from their money. Whether it be managements fault or the scouting department. Maybe the nationality requirements is what is killing the league. I know this league is looked at for producing players for the USMNT and CMNT, but I argue it should be looked at more as a business like the EPL, those leagues worries arent about producing local talent, they're about putting the best product on the field for the fans.

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by ag futbol

Really? everything i've heard is putting it next to Scotia bank place (which is a huge mistake imo).

Your location sounds much better.

The whole area is undergoing redevelopment ... you have lots of local parking in government complexes.. plus bars and restaurants on Preston.. the Paper Mill property is to be redeveloped. Melynk is not stupid he knows the market for a team is those eighteen to thirty ... and to sell lots of beer, you can do that downtown and have home games on Thursday nights. The land is available and the NCC owns it.. not the city as I understand.

The city would be for it as it would let them turn Lansdowne into a green space for the folks in the Glebe.

[ottawasportsfan2010]

So your saying screw all those rich young people in west ottawa.

[JamboAl]

quote:Originally posted by ottawasportsfan2010

Jamboal

1)Ottawa is not a bad sports town as you think.Take the sens avg 19,000 a game then the 67s 7,000 and olympics 3500 per game.The you add the cis sports get solid support.Ottawa was second in attendance only to montreal in the world under 20s.The world jrs hockey championships are 95% sold out.

2)As a rulke when someone says that place is in the middle of no where.The means very little housing etc.Kanata is not that at all.As of now there is about 300,000 houses within a 15 minute drive.Kanata is just going to get bigger.

3)Ya ok 1.1 million people leave the city on the weekend sure.

4)At one point they said it would not work in toronto but it has.So never say never.

To those saying is a bad choice.Keep in mind a good number of sbc goers live in kanata and for the most part can afford the $$ tickets.The stadium needs to be built in areas where there is alots of money..

I think Ottawa is a good hockey town (probably an excellent one at that), but not sure if it can support soccer; maybe I'll be proved wrong.

As for the statement about Kanata being in the middle of nowhere, I didn't mean that no one lives there. It's just that it's a heck of a long way to go for someone living downtown or east, but I assume that the same can be said of people living out there going to a Rapidz game. I agree that a lot of Kanata folks have season tickets to Sens games, would they be willing to part with their cash for soccer? Don't know...but you've got some pretty conservative, stodgy folks in Kanata who would likely complain about noise levels from fans. Hmm...come to think of it, you'd probably get that from Glebeites as well...

Let's see if Melnyk can sell it to the MLS Board of Governors.

[Keegan]

It says they are building a new stadium. So it might not be in Kanata. Put it in OTTAWA near or in Downtown just like BMO

[snake]

did ottawa ever have a csl team

[ottawasportsfan2010]

Yes ottawa had a ottawa csl team that played out of carp.

[Wilfrid Laurier]

quote:Originally posted by snake

did ottawa ever have a csl team

There is currently a PDL team and various other teams (womens, youth, etc.) I've never gone so I don't know where they play or what the level is like but their website does look interesting. http://www.ottawafury.com/

[ChrisB]

quote:Originally posted by ottawasportsfan2010

So your saying screw all those rich young people in west ottawa.

All of those rich young people in Kanata are ALREADY coming down to Elgin/the Market on weekends. Scotiabank Place, all due respect to the tract housing in Kanata, is in the middle of nowhere, which I define as everybody must drive there. Where do you go after a Sens game? Downtown Bells Corners? And for the record there are not 300,000 homes in Kanata. There are about 90,000 people in Kanata, all told, and most of these live in the eastern bit - there are about 15000 around Scotiabank place.

Anyways, how come nobody is talking of the possibility of Melnyk teaming up with the CFL consortium to rebuild Frank Clair? That makes perfect sense to me.

The other spot that would be perfect would be Lebreton Flats, as has already been mentioned - it will be fairly central, but more importantly will be on the LRT line if they ever build it.

[peachgrinder]

quote:Originally posted by Keegan

It says they are building a new stadium. So it might not be in Kanata. Put it in OTTAWA near or in Downtown just like BMO

If the Sun is correct, it will be in Kanata near Scotiabank Place. The writer who wrote the article gets very good information from the Sens and covers them accurately, so his sources are probably good.

I too would love it downtown; however, current public opinion would make it difficult at Landsdowne, especially as Melnyk does not own that land.

As well, the land up off of Preston - are you referring to the Experimental Farm? I can't see that happening either. People were in an uproar over a proposal to put in a hospital at the site last year - I doubt a rich billionaire wanting to put in a private enterprise construction would fly. If you are not referring to the Experimental Farm, where off of Preston?

PEACH

[ottawasportsfan2010]

Chrisb

1)There is 90,000 in kanata/20,000 in west nepean/15000 stittsville and carp.

2)You have area such as kanata lakes and huntley ridge which are very $$$$ areas.Then in barrheaven its up and comming as well.

3)The kanata centrum does offer alot.There is aslo more and more bars opening around the area.

4)No frank clair is all but out as most people in the glebe don't wnat a sports stadium built.

5)There is many many houses within walking distnace to the sbp.

6)The flats may be ideal for you but not for alot of people.You aslo have to look at the growth of kanata/stittsville/barrhaven in the next 10-20 years all three areas will be massive.

[Lennie]

quote:Originally posted by ottawasportsfan2010

Chrisb

1)There is 90,000 in Kanata/20,000 in west Nepean/15000 Stittsville and Carp.

That amounts to about 11 percent of the total population for the Central Metropolitan Area of Ottawa-Gatineau. Not a great percentage. It would be better to have a stadium more centrally located were a higher percentage of available soccer fans could be reached.

If a proper analysis has been done where all socio-economic variables, all transportation variables and all geographical variables of the CMA were taken into account, a Kanata location would probably not be the first choice for the location of a stadium.

[peachgrinder]

However: Melnyk is building the SSS with his money, not the City of Ottawa or prov/fed governments. He will put it where he wants. That is the reality. I don't see him hopping on the Lebreton pipe dream or Preston or somewhere else (Frank Clair). If he owns the land around Scotiabank, that is where it will be.

Keep in mind that people have said that the Sens were done before (Bryden missing payroll), that the 67's were done once the Sens came to town. The Roughriders/Renegades saga could have been avoided (and will be avoided with local ownership proper), and the Lynx were done as soon as the Expos pulled their farm team and local ownership was gone. The IL, once the Expos were out, did everything they possibly could to ensure that the lone Canadian team would soon be on their way out of the country. Home games in early April? On the road over Canada DAy? Owners who did nothing to bring the fans in? The Rapidz have done a great job, and are building the base for a success.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by peachgrinder

However: Melnyk is building the SSS with his money, not the City of Ottawa or prov/fed governments.

I was reading Garth Woolsley's Sunday column in the Toronto Star and he intimated that melnyk's stadium would have government support/funding.

I'm not saying Woolsley is correct but I'm just asking if there has been any talk at all about govt. kicking in some dough to pay for a new soccer facility?

[ag futbol]

As much as we might love the area of Kanata recent history in MLS just shows that's a stupid place to put a stadium. Nothing against the city but if it's not working well in a host of other cities why is it going to work there?

Integrating your stadium with the downtown area is the best way to give your team a presence in the city, otherwise you are fighting an uphill battle.

Melnyk can build the thing where he wants, but he won't have an MLS team to put in it unless the league likes the details. And these days, I think they are going to favor bids that are going to put stadiums in better locations.

[peachgrinder]

While I may be wrong, the Ottawa Sun is reporting that the stadium will be on land that Melnyk owns (presumably this means around Scotiabank), and will be funding the project himself.

I don't think there is ANY appetite for government funding for the stadium given the current issue with Landsdowne/Frank Clair. Again, this might be wrong. Fed is probably out given the election, provincial? The city has trouble balancing the budget.

Who knows - come Tuesday we'll all know more. I just wish it was a bit later in the day so I could go!

PEACH

[JamboAl]

I guess I'm biased living in the downtown core but I would love the stadium downtown so I could walk to it and/or bus to it easily. The issue with involving the CFL is whether mls would accept a similar situation as what they have in other cities with those annoying gridiron lines. And in those cases, the situation with groundsharing is only a temporary one; permanent homes are being planned/built.

BTW, I'm in very damp Chicago right now and went by Toyota Park and if you want to know what it would be like to play in the middle of nowhere; that's it right there.

[ottawasportsfan2010]

Aj

You aslo have to look at kanata how it supports all events at the spb.If there was attendance issues then yes they may say this is not the right choice.Is it the rights spot for a soccer stadium i am not sure.In a perfect world it would be nice to have it 10 minutes from the west and 10 minutes from the east.

[Kibby]

quote:Originally posted by ottawasportsfan2010

Aj

You aslo have to look at kanata how it supports all events at the spb.If there was attendance issues then yes they may say this is not the right choice.Is it the rights spot for a soccer stadium i am not sure.In a perfect world it would be nice to have it 10 minutes from the west and 10 minutes from the east.

Kanata makes me feel like suburban soccer mom and dad crowds are what will show. Somewhere in central Ottawa gets the young Urban carless crowd, sure soccer moms and dads will still be there but they won't be the whole crowd.

[ChrisB]

I don't think it is as simple as "Melnyk owns the land - he gets to build the stadium" - The city will (presumably) need to look at traffic/environmental impacts etc...

I notice that the land across from the War Museum has had a placard up for a year stating that the site is reserved for a cultural institution. Maybe a soccer stdium is the culural institution?

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by ottawasportsfan2010

Chrisb

1)There is 90,000 in kanata/20,000 in west nepean/15000 stittsville and carp.

2)You have area such as kanata lakes and huntley ridge which are very $$$$ areas.Then in barrheaven its up and comming as well.

Do you remember when Kanata had bylaws about clotheslines and what colour you could paint your garage door? That is not the market you want to catering too.

Alot of the success TFC has had (financially speaking) is because they reached out to the grassroots fans of soccer and made BMO a place where a truly knowledgeable soccer fan could go and enjoy the game. However, you are targetting people who will use Ottawa MLS games to bring kids out for birthday parties. If the MLS team that you are envisioning comes to Ottawa, I will guarantee that you will have things like Spartacat prowling through the stands and this will absolutely destroy any atmosphere. You'll bring in the soccer mom crowd and drive away the soccer fans.

quote:Originally posted by ottawasportsfan2010

3)The kanata centrum does offer alot.There is aslo more and more bars opening around the area.

Are you serious? You'd still have to drive from Centrum to the stadium. What, is everybody going to go to the bar for pre and post game ginger ales?

quote:Originally posted by ottawasportsfan2010

4)No frank clair is all but out as most people in the glebe don't wnat a sports stadium built.

5)There is many many houses within walking distnace to the sbp.

6)The flats may be ideal for you but not for alot of people.You aslo have to look at the growth of kanata/stittsville/barrhaven in the next 10-20 years all three areas will be massive.

Again, catering to the wrong market. One of the reasons the 67s continue to do well is that transportation to and from the game is very easy. People can make it downtown no problem. They can find a bar on Bank St. and then walk to the game. This is all but impossible for Scotiabank place.

And how is it possible that the Flats is less ideal for people than Scotiabank place? These same Lebreton Flats which are right on the transitway (and the O-Train don't forget) and a 15-20 minute walk from Bronson, Preston, Bank and just around the corner from Westboro? That makes no sense.

If you want to create an audience for a sport, and let's face it you'll have to in Ottawa because there hasn't been soccer here in awhile, you have</u> to make it easy for people to get to. You have to make it so that people don't have to plan their Saturdays in the summer</u> around it.

Kanata supports the Senators because, as Canadians, hockey is ingrained our fabric. We will go to great lengths to see high-calibre hockey. The same cannot be said for soccer. Also, as a winter sport, people generally have less to do. I know my spare time is quite precious in the summer months compared to Nov. thru March.

You're playing with fire if you target the affluent and the soccer mom crowd as your base. I do not see it working if that's what happens.