Mexico - Canada Pre/Dur/Post Match Thread

[Eric]

I think Forest's comments were accurate, crud and harsh some times but accurate.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Interesting read guys, had my alarm set to watch but slept through. I probably needed the sleep more than the game anyways.

Sounds like our play has totally deteriorated since the optimistic show at the Gold Cup.

If we had beat the States in those semis would we have played like today in the Gold Cup final?

[Reza]

Man this round of qualifying has been the hardest to swallow. Ironically, unlike 2000 and 2004, we could have gotten so much more out of all three games this time. In fact, we could be sitting at 7 points at this point. Too much respect for the opposition at times in the last two games and a bad break in the first.

Mexico doesn't look as good as they did in past qualifiers. Even in Azteca, they haven't looked as lethal as before. Their strikers are just not as deadly.

Honduras had two chances and buried them, but they were so very beatable.

And Jamaica was just a heartbreaker.

[mcaout]

Mitchell set out to tie 0-0 and hoped for a 0-1. That's not good enough. I understand the stratagy, but I feel he underestimates the players he has; he has conventional wisdom drilled into his brain. Now granted if we had gone for it (like play two strikers) we might have lost 4-0 but regardless we lost anyway. I think a more positive approach was needed.

I am disappointed in the goals as well. I felt the first was a good cross and good header. But he found his space between our two central defenders. The second really calls Stalteri's ability to play at this level into question. I've always liked the Captain, but that is a major error, and with other play in the previous games I wonder about him. Certainly Mex may have found other ways to net, and deserved goals for their pressure, but they hardly did something unstopable to acheive them.

[Tuscan]

We truly did not look alive until Gerba got out there. I know I toot the Gerba horn quite a bit, but seriously, he produces even when on paper he probably shouldn't. 2 strikers has now become a necessity, as we can no longer just sit back and just lob the ball up to Friend hoping that he magically beats 3 defenders and puts it top corner. The Mexicans looked like they were shaken up and disorganized when we came alive after that free-kick goal. After that point they did not look like they were in 100% control of the game. We need to do this to both Jamaica and Honduras now, otherwise we might as well book our tickets to Gold Cup 2009...

Start both Friend and Gerba, or else start Friend and Occean, then sub Gerba on for one or the other, just a suggestion but please rip my head off.

[Whither Canada]

MOTM to Lars, with Kluka a very close second.

One good thing that's come out of this debacle of a qualifying round so far is the emergence (or is it confirmation) of Klukowski as a solid, dependable player. He's one to move forward with.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Whither Canada

MOTM to Lars, with Kluka a very close second.

One good thing that's come out of this debacle of a qualifying round so far is the emergence (or is it confirmation) of Klukowski as a solid, dependable player. He's one to move forward with.

I agree about both players. As well, on first and only watching of this match I thought Hutchinson had a good game, at the very least better than DeGuzman:( (maybe I'll see things differently on second viewing).

[FootieFool]

quote:Originally posted by Whither Canada

MOTM to Lars, with Kluka a very close second.

One good thing that's come out of this debacle of a qualifying round so far is the emergence (or is it confirmation) of Klukowski as a solid, dependable player. He's one to move forward with.

Hirschfeld was a rock...Klukowski was a rock star. I'd also add Serioux to the list. Thought he had a strong outing.

[Jarrek]

Is it me, or did the introduction of Occean did absolutely nothing?!

I would have stuck with Friend, maybe someone would have delivered the ball to him and he wouldn't be in an offside position. Wishful thinking.

Ah well, 2014, here we come!!!

[nolando]

quote:Originally posted by Jarrek

Is it me, or did the introduction of Occean did absolutely nothing?!

Dude, he is a striker - he didnt get passed the ball. What, was he supposed to track back to midfield to pick it up? And what did he have, about ten or fifteen minutes all told?

Friend does not fit into this system we are playing at all. I wish that werent the case. When Div.1/ B3 quality Gerba fits so well, I yearn for a Bundesliga-level striker whose style actually fits this team. Imagine that kind of impact.

[nolando]

quote:Originally posted by Vancouver Fan

I don't think we got a good effort out there from anyone except for Lars and Klukla.

I usually agree with you but I think Serioux played his heart out tonight, as did Hastings. I don't think I have seen either of those guy play even a half of football where they weren't doing all that they were capable of. When you factor in the fact that Serioux is playing out of position, and that Hastings is an average player on an average team in a very average league, I think both TRIED to pull their weight. Effort and creativity-wise, blame has to lie squarely on the shoulders of the midfield, especially DDR and JDG.

There may be a case for Stalteri being at fault for three of the five goals scored against us this cycle. Was there a worse player on the pitch? Awful, just awful. Could Ledgerwood or any another warm body with two legs and a white jersey have been any worse, I mean really?!? And you have this guy wearing the captain's armband?? I have wondered for months if we might have seen more from JDG if he had been given the armband shortly after his emergence as a "defacto star" for us. It might have provided the last boost of confidence or inspiration to put him over the top in every game he played for Canada. God knows we needed him.

[nolando]

Since we are usually bitching about the officiating I must say that I have been mildly impressed, or at least pleasantly surprised, and maybe even a little bewildered. We finally see simulation called in our favour, twice no less, and IMHO neither of the instances were really clearcut cases of diving. Blanco simply tripped (poor bugger - what a curtain call, eh?) and th other guy roughed up a bit on the second contact. In any case, we have seen at least two dozen worse instances involving opponents of Canada, and rarely does the ref even motion for the faking player to get up, let alone card them. Doesn't the Canadian usually get the card in those cases?

Also, there were quite a few rough follow-throughs on solid tackles by Canadians where I winced not for the opposing player's health, but in wait for the refs whistle and the ensuing yellow (or red) card to our player. Not once did it blow unfairly - not from my perspective at least.

And to be fair, we have committed three blatantly intentional hand-balls in three games and been called on one of them.

Not much to bitch about in this sense.

[OFI-MTL]

quote:Originally posted by Jamit

I don't understand why De Guzman did the exact same thing whenever he got the ball. Pull it back and pass it to a defender. I mean, what? He was supposed to be the star...

How can you SOAR like an eagle when you FLY with turkeys!

[tellytubby]

I felt for the Canadian players today. They gave it everything they had, it just wasn't enough. Mexico looked very organized and showed poise with the ball. Defensively, they knew if they could disrupt Canada's short passing game and make us hoof the ball, we would tire from chasing the ball in the humidity.

You can see that the players are down. They've lost confidence on the ball and although Serioux(suspension) and Hastings give it the old college try, they shouldn't be playing where they are playing. Hastings should be playing right bench, and Serioux should be the holding mid. Play kluk and Mckenna in the middle. Worth a try, I guess.

Like other posters, I was impressed by Lars, Kluk and Hutchinson. Hutch's play re-emphasized the one thing that has been bothering me this whole time. Why aren't we playing with a holding mid behind him and deguzman. If Dero(suspension) can't play wide left, then sit his ass and bring him on with 20 min. to go. This would allow hutch and deguzman to get involved and help support the striker. Mitchell is a baffling individual.

[Cheeta]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

Since we are usually bitching about the officiating I must say that I have been mildly impressed, or at least pleasantly surprised, and maybe even a little bewildered. We finally see simulation called in our favour, twice no less, and IMHO neither of the instances were really clearcut cases of diving. Blanco simply tripped (poor bugger - what a curtain call, eh?) and th other guy roughed up a bit on the second contact. In any case, we have seen at least two dozen worse instances involving opponents of Canada, and rarely does the ref even motion for the faking player to get up, let alone card them. Doesn't the Canadian usually get the card in those cases?

Also, there were quite a few rough follow-throughs on solid tackles by Canadians where I winced not for the opposing player's health, but in wait for the refs whistle and the ensuing yellow (or red) card to our player. Not once did it blow unfairly - not from my perspective at least.

And to be fair, we have committed three blatantly intentional hand-balls in three games and been called on one of them.

Not much to bitch about in this sense.

Completely agree. Ref'ing was by CONCACRAP standards outstanding. Shame it had to be waisted on a match against Mexico when we could have really used it against Honduras or Jamaica.

Yeah, The Guz escaped one there. After that stab you just knew someone was going to have a sore peg in the morning.

For me the 1st caution was legit as Diesel looked like he was desperately trying to pull out of the challenge when he knew he was beaten (tough on the greasy pitch) and Guardado had already taken a couple of tumbles earlier but poor Blanco was hard done by.

Damn I thought DDR might have been on-side on that through ball. Unlucky for us that the linesman was on the wrong side of the pitch and had to look through a few players to make the judgment.

P.S. Klukowski must be black & blue this morning. Rough match for him.

[loyola]

Second goal isn't only Paul's fault. First, let's put some blame on the keeper for not organizing his defense better, no one on the first post, Stalteri being badly position? Stateri is to close to the first post, he should be 2-3 meters closer to the corner kick to cut that kind of low ball(no one should be able to cut in front of him and have a quality header on target). You also have to question the player who let Marquez alone.

Kluka played really well in those 2 games, easily our best player. I'm very disapointed in De Guzman, I thought he would bring more leadership to this team instead of that poor body language.

[knottyleft]

Please lets not defend Stalteri anymore , he was in position when that ball was coming in and marquez simply stepped right in front of him.... De Guzman is a proven big game player and I dont blame his frustration, after always putting his country first, (showing up to play with sh*%ty coaches, yes sh*%ty players as well......everyone has a breaking point....

[Grasshopper]

quote:Originally posted by knottyleft

De Guzman is a proven big game player and I dont blame his frustration, after always putting his country first, (showing up to play with sh*%ty coaches, yes sh*%ty players as well......everyone has a breaking point....

If De Guzman wants to play for the country, he really has no other options than to 'play with sh*%ty coaches, yes sh*%ty players'.

Having an issue with the coaching staff is one thing. That can be changed (at least in theory).

Having an issue with the quality of your teammates isn't going to change. Love 'em or hate 'em, what he sees on the pitch is the best assortment we have. Best to make the most of it. Good on-field leaders have the ability to get others to raise their level of play, they don't play down to the level of lesser skilled players.

[socmad]

i agree with knottyleft...deguz was working and running hard, directing this team with 'his positive body language' but when players, professional players mind you, make mistakes with 5 yard passes, it gets very frustrating because then you have to chase for the ball again.....degus tried and worked as hard as anyone on the field, and together with hutch are the only two that could hold on the ball and play....how can a team be successful with only two technically able players,... i do not blame deguz at all for being frustrated...how much can one guy do?, this guy covered more ground than anyone elase....when we had a break, he was the first one up there supporting friend, then he was back in defense....blame stalteri, dero, hume, ...these guys stunk , these guys couldn't even perform their bread and butter duties.....no wonder spurs don't want stalteri, and all the hype about dero....if he was the best in concacaf as his coach kinnear said or any good at all, he would be playing in europe already....dero was the biggest dissapointment in my opinion, couldn't even shoot or dribble, f------ing useless....some bright spots besides deguz were lars, klulowski, hutch, serioux and maybe gerba & Friend...all the rest ship them out....garbage!!!!

[knottyleft]

grasshopper I hear your point about being able to raise your ability of play but maybe that is more relevant in team sports with less ground to cover and less players to deal with (although I really hate bringing other sports into this) I have known, played and watched De Guzman play for many years and his attitude last night was one of somebody who passed his breaking point...everyone has one and I cant cast a stone after having to sit through watching a pathetic display of football from the likes of Dero, Hume, Stalteri like socmad said Hutch and Julez are the only ones who try to implament any sort of football presence and these guys are used to doing it week in and week out... De Guzman stuck to the pathetic plan and formation throughout the entire match which is a positive in itself as the mexican defensive strategy was simply to zone julian with 2 or 3 players everytime he had the ball and cover any channels created by Dero Friend or Issey (which they did not have to do at all based on the pathetic performances of all 3) Any 'decent' team in world football these days does not turtle shell itself and hope for a miracle, Canada needed to absorb the first 20 which they did and then move the ball around and keep possession to take the wings outta mexico..(poof ladies and gents after that we have a football match)but hey if you dont move off the ball it becomes impossible to keep possession and this is exactly what happened the team was reactive for 90 minutes instead of proactive and that fault lies squarely on the bench boss... they applied no pressure in mexicos half and essentially made mexico have an attacking training session... I have seen mexico play many many times and I can assure gets uncomfortable really quickly when pressured from their backline.... we walked into their stadium played like we just wanted mom to start the car and get us out of there and tactically right into their hands.....pathetic

[Grasshopper]

quote:Originally posted by knottyleft

grasshopper I hear your point about being able to raise your ability of play but maybe that is more relevant in team sports with less ground to cover and less players to deal with (although I really hate bringing other sports into this) I have known, played and watched De Guzman play for many years and his attitude last night was one of somebody who passed his breaking point...everyone has one and I cant cast a stone after having to sit through watching a pathetic display of football from the likes of Dero, Hume, Stalteri like socmad said Hutch and Julez are the only ones who try to implament any sort of football presence and these guys are used to doing it week in and week out... De Guzman stuck to the pathetic plan and formation throughout the entire match which is a positive in itself as the mexican defensive strategy was simply to zone julian with 2 or 3 players everytime he had the ball and cover any channels created by Dero Friend or Issey (which they did not have to do at all based on the pathetic performances of all 3) Any 'decent' team in world football these days does not turtle shell itself and hope for a miracle, Canada needed to absorb the first 20 which they did and then move the ball around and keep possession to take the wings outta mexico..(poof ladies and gents after that we have a football match)but hey if you dont move off the ball it becomes impossible to keep possession and this is exactly what happened the team was reactive for 90 minutes instead of proactive and that fault lies squarely on the bench boss... they applied no pressure in mexicos half and essentially made mexico have an attacking training session... I have seen mexico play many many times and I can assure gets uncomfortable really quickly when pressured from their backline.... we walked into their stadium played like we just wanted mom to start the car and get us out of there and tactically right into their hands.....pathetic

I still can't figure out whether or not it's our lousy players or our lousy coaches that are at fault.

The conventional wisdom is that we're being outcoached...i.e. a better coach with the same players would be getting results.

But you're suggesting that a number of our starters aren't any good. To me that suggests that even a better coach isn't going to be enough. Our starters are better than our subs, and our subs are better than our guys who didn't get called.

There's no doubt that Julian is the most skilled player that our country has. But let's not make that fact that some of our players are merely good, but not as good as Julian or Atiba some kind of crime. Everybody has a certain amount of ability that can be used for the benefit of the team.

My pass/fail test is whether or not a player gave his all, it's a relative scale, not an absolute one. When you see your best player throw his hands up, he's not giving 100%. Breaking point or not, that's not good enough.

[knottyleft]

every single player on Canada has shown what they can do at one point or another...yesterday nobody's ability was of benefit to the team not a single one I'd say except for Lars,

I agree with you that throwing your hands up in a match of this calibre is not good enough my friend, at least 8 of our players threw their hands up internally even before this match started.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by knottyleft

I agree with you that throwing your hands up in a match of this calibre is not good enough my friend, at least 8 of our players threw their hands up internally even before this match started.

This is true.....

I really feel for JDG...you could see that he stuck to a plan that he didn't believe in. Constantly passing laterally or backwards was a quiet way of showing the coach that the formation wasn't working. He's too respectful to show up the coach and say "to hell with you, this is how we'll do it" but I wish he would have.

I'm told Jules is even playing hurt. knottyleft, is that true?

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

This is true.....

I really feel for JDG...you could see that he stuck to a plan that he didn't believe in. Constantly passing laterally or backwards was a quiet way of showing the coach that the formation wasn't working. He's too respectful to show up the coach and say "to hell with you, this is how we'll do it" but I wish he would have.

I'm told Jules is even playing hurt. knottyleft, is that true?

I find it amazing that all the blame is being put on Mitchell (who certainly hasn't impressed anyone with his managerials skills) while the players are being excused for their lack of effort or bad showing.

And to add to that nonsense, I guess we were right to listen to Jule for playing all the games in MTL....

Julian is certianly the best player we have, it doesn't mean he knows more than the coach in term of tactic. If what you're suggesting is true (which I doubt) I would be terribly disapointed in the players.

No one was complaining about Mitchell when we played the Czech U-20's in 2003 with similar style waiting until the end to win 1-0 in a do or die game. So, I feel like yesterday defensive game plan was all right IMO and I hope the players followed it.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

I find it amazing that all the blame is being put on Mitchell (who certainly hasn't impressed anyone with his managerials skills) while the players are being excused for their lack of effort or bad showing.

And to add to that nonsense, I guess we were right to listen to Jule for playing all the games in MTL....

Julian is certianly the best player we have, it doesn't mean he knows more than the coach in term of tactic. If what you're suggesting is true (which I doubt) I would be terribly disapointed in the players.

No one was complaining about Mitchell when we played the Czech U-20's in 2003 with similar style waiting until the end to win 1-0 in a do or die game. So, I feel like yesterday defensive game plan was all right IMO and I hope the players followed it.

actually, the tactics employed last night can't really be argued with too much, if we had won on Saturday. Playing for a tie would have been fine if we went into the game with 4 points.

The problem is that we needed a win. A tie really wasn't good enough. it makes sense to sit back and absorb the pressure for 20-30 minutes but after that, we needed to be into the game more than we were. Playing Friend up top, by himself as a target man, with little or no support, meant we were never going to get any possession.

The players are not blameless. Many did not have a good game. Issey was pretty useless last night. Brennan did little or nothing. Diesel has been bad for 3 games in a row. Hastings was brave but he can't make a decent forward pass to save his life...he looks like he wants to get rid of the ball as fast as possible. DeRo was listless...etc...etc... etc...

However, too many people on the boards look at atheletes like superheroes. These guys are human and are affected directly by the the things that frustrate us from afar. A person can take only so much frustration before it effects them and their ability to perform. The reality is that the players looked frustrated all night. The body language was not good.