Some questions about the CSA

[nimamalek]

Can anyone answer the following questions about the CSA for me? I’ve found some information here and there but I’m not sure how accurate it may be. Looking for someone with detailed knowledge about the CSA to answer the following:

1. Where does the CSA get their funding?

2. Who has leverage over the CSA?

3. What steps would be required to replace the CSA ?

4. What, if any steps have been taken in the past in order to replace the CSA?

5. How much influence do the players have over the CSA?

[Daniel]

1. Government, membership fees, sponsors, ticket/merchandise sale

2. FIFA, Canadian government

3. Outright corruption (see Australia)

4. No one really has any power to do so except the Government, who has been inactive. The CSF was a contestation movement in Fall 2007 to start a grassroots revolution.

5. No one knows for sure. Some, but not enough.

[Peter S]

1. CSA funding is largely from player registration fees from across the country. This is extremely rare for FAs around the world. So the money is not coming from the national teams.

2. The provincial associations. I don't see why the government would want to get involved, and any intereference on its part could bring FIFA sanctions.

3. I don't think it is replaceable, although talk of the CSF did raise some interest. The main question is how to reform the CSA from within so that it better handles the national team programmes, when that's not its exclusive or primary goal.

4. You can look at the CSF threads buried on this board from last year.

5. Good question. It's not usually good when players run the show, but I think they share the same frustrations and goals we do.

I don't think the CSA needs to disappear. Rather, they somehow need to get a few people running the MNT set-up to the absolute highest standards. Not an easy or obvious task. And then they need De Guzman's shot to dip below the bar, and Gerba's header to go in, and the ref in Chicago to award that goal ...

This cycle was (is?) probably our best chance to qualify, but in 4 years we might have a decent combination of older veterans (DdR, JdG, RF) mixed with some young players coming through the ranks of TFC, the Impact & the Whitecaps ... who might also have a year or two of Concacaf Champions' League experience. We'll see. Plus, we'll have the Gold Cup next summer, which we could treat as our World Cup, while other nations are pre-occupied with the Hex. But maybe we'll beat Mexico and that'll be moot.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

The only way to replace the CSA would be to convince the government that they have to go and be replaced by a real football association. Good luck selling Stephen Harper on that...

[nimamalek]

thanks for the info, but at this point i think everyone can agree that the CSA is unable to handle our men's national program.

[Mobiiiiiiiilio]

quote:Originally posted by nimamalek

thanks for the info, but at this point i think everyone can agree that the CSA is unable to handle our men's national program.

And that's news?

[Peter S]

quote:Originally posted by nimamalek

thanks for the info, but at this point i think everyone can agree that the CSA is unable to handle our men's national program.

Yes. I'm just not sure whether we should be hoping for a new body, or one figure (coach, technical director, president), or just better luck. So frustrating.

The case of Soccer Australia is intriguing, but they were always only 2-4 games away from qualification, thanks to their former membership in oceania. But the new governing body certainly gave impetus to the movement.

the Irish picked up in the late 80s with Bobby Charlton and several English league players with nominal Irish ties, but again, that team had been in the mix throughout the 80s.

Scotland revived in the Euro 2008 qualifiers with strong management under Walter Smith and Alex McLeish and two desperate wins over the French. Also, a new generation of young players came through their league, which had dropped many overseas players after its television deal went bust.

Côte d'Ivoire have come from nowehere, but they clearly have great players, and lots of success in Africa in the past.

The Japanese, Koreans & Americans started new leagues in the 90s.

Trinidad have Jack Warner.

The Russians used Abrahamovich's millions to hire Hiddink (actually, so did Korea, and Australia ... hmmm ...) and their league picked up as their economy did.

In any case, these are just very rough generalisations. Some combination of young players coming through domestically, a brilliant coach, a competent organization dedicated to the NT program would seem to be the recipe. But there'd still be Jack Warner to overcome.

[Richard]

FIFA will not tolerate any government intervention in the running of soccer in Canada unless there is outright criminal activity and for all their faults I don't think there is any of that at the CSA. There is plenty of precedent for FIFA suspension of a country due to government interference.

The CSA is an association of provincial associations so representation of ordinary members across the country is very indirect and goes through several layers before reaching board level at the CSA. This makes it extremely difficult to achieve change from the bottom up as the channels are tortuous and the inertia enormous. I know what I would like to see in terms of change at the CSA but have no clue how to make it happen.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

They get yearly funding from the government though, don't they? If the government withdrew funding, that would mark the end of the CSA. So essentially, it does start and end with the government.

The various parties involved in Canadian football form a new Canadian FA, minus the clueless leadership pyramid, and apply for a government subsidy and status as a non-profit organization... There you go. Don't think it can happen though, because the government don't care.

[Lord Bob]

And then when we do convince the government to gas the CSA, FIFA will ban us from international competition because the very idea that a democratically-elected government might interfere in sports at the behest of its citizens is utterly repugnant to the upright, honest, and not at all corrupt gang who run international soccer.

[SportingFC]

quote:Originally posted by I_AM_CANADIAN

They get yearly funding from the government though, don't they? If the government withdrew funding, that would mark the end of the CSA. So essentially, it does start and end with the government.

The various parties involved in Canadian football form a new Canadian FA, minus the clueless leadership pyramid, and apply for a government subsidy and status as a non-profit organization... There you go. Don't think it can happen though, because the government don't care.

Maybe they will care now!!

This maybe a dumb suggestion. But the federal election is Oct 14. What if we place our case to each party/local MP to see if they can do something if elected. Which ever one takes up an ear to it. We can offer votes.

Just a suggestion. I know health care, canadian pension, taxes, transportation, pollution is a bigger issue. And this soccer thing is small. But, why can't we give it a shot.. Now is probably the best time. Since the Partys are all fighting for your vote. The whole country is going to vote oct 14th.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by I_AM_CANADIAN

They get yearly funding from the government though, don't they? If the government withdrew funding, that would mark the end of the CSA. So essentially, it does start and end with the government.

The various parties involved in Canadian football form a new Canadian FA, minus the clueless leadership pyramid, and apply for a government subsidy and status as a non-profit organization... There you go. Don't think it can happen though, because the government don't care.

Withdrawal of Sport Canada money would not lead to the demise of the CSA. Programs may be cut back and levies on provincial associations increased but the CSA would continue to function. Any attempts to create an alternate national organisation will require the support of the provincial associations plus recognition by FIFA, both highly unlikely.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

quote:Originally posted by Lord Bob

And then when we do convince the government to gas the CSA, FIFA will ban us from international competition because the very idea that a democratically-elected government might interfere in sports at the behest of its citizens is utterly repugnant to the upright, honest, and not at all corrupt gang who run international soccer.

It's not interfering in sports, per se. Australia did exactly that, formed a new football association. What we're asking the government to do is to form an FA that serves the purpose it's supposed to: work for the betterment of the game of football in Canada. Something the Canadian Soccer Association does not do in any way, shape or form. It's just there, not contributing in any positive way.

And regarding the honest, upright bit... Ever heard of Jack Warner?

[ag futbol]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

FIFA will not tolerate any government intervention in the running of soccer in Canada unless there is outright criminal activity and for all their faults I don't think there is any of that at the CSA. There is plenty of precedent for FIFA suspension of a country due to government interference.

The CSA is an association of provincial associations so representation of ordinary members across the country is very indirect and goes through several layers before reaching board level at the CSA. This makes it extremely difficult to achieve change from the bottom up as the channels are tortuous and the inertia enormous. I know what I would like to see in terms of change at the CSA but have no clue how to make it happen.

FIFA will do what it always does, huff and puff until there's some bureaucratic manoeuvring by whoever wants to clear house then they go away. In an extreme situation they will suspend but I think that’s a threat we should be willing to tolerate.

It’s not like the CSA adds much value to anything, you keep holding the threat of suspension over everybody like it’s this great barrier to change. Oh no, we'll ruin all the great work they've been doing lately!

[Guest Ed]

Actually guys the CSF probably has more eloquent ways of putting this but, the major problem is not necessarily the CSA itself, but rather the power that the useless mini-CSA's (provincial org's) have over the whole show. And FIFA will not do a thing about our CSA. Are you kidding? They vote for or with Jack when asked.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by I_AM_CANADIAN

It's not interfering in sports, per se. Australia did exactly that, formed a new football association. What we're asking the government to do is to form an FA that serves the purpose it's supposed to: work for the betterment of the game of football in Canada. Something the Canadian Soccer Association does not do in any way, shape or form. It's just there, not contributing in any positive way.

And regarding the honest, upright bit... Ever heard of Jack Warner?

Firstly, the federal government can help with facilitating the formation of a new FA but they may not order it, the impetus for change must come from within the soccer community.

Secondly, I don't recall Jack Warner ever being a member of the CSA. How Jack Warner conducts his personal affairs has nothing whatsoever to do with the operation of the CSA.

Discussion of possible federal government intervention in any way whatsoever in the administration of the CSA is a complete waste of time and space. It simply will not happen.