Canada-Honduras postgame

[nolando]

What can you say, really? This is the most depressing thing I have felt in a long time, maybe a new low during my 10 plus years cheering for canada.

A recap:

- we have undoubtedly the best team we have ever had. period

- we drew a tough group but, as many said, we would have to get past the likes of honduras and jamaica to make south africa anyways

-although we didnt have a gem of a coach we had a coach that didnt interfere and who had no major conflicts with any of the starting members, a situatiuon that is unlikely to ever be repeated

-we have a situation where if we produce any better players than we have currently in our starting eleven, they are very likely to play for another country if they have even the slightest chance - therefore we may be seeing the best team that we WILL EVER see for canada in our lifetime

-we continue to take careless yellows time and time again and act surprised that concacaf refereeing isnt up to snuff with the usual european fare that most of our best players are used to

-many of our concacaf opponents seem to be getting better with each cycle while (on paper in hard results), we look to be creeping closer to a team that might be at risk of not even making the first group stage come next qualifying

-we finally get one city behind our boys, but rush off to another where once again the support for the opposition appears to be at least 50% for the opposition

- not only are we not going to the next world cup, we arent even going to the final hex

- face it, we just aint that bloody good and this is probably the last time we will ever see the majority of our better players play in wcq

-its hard not say that its basically all downhill from here, boys

damn..i may yet cry myself to sleep tonight - this is perhaps the toughest loss i have felt since '97.

[Natesta]

The biggest problem with our coaching is that Mitchel doesn't seem to know how to adapt to situations, how we start with a 4-5-1 is beyond me... then how we proceed to play the same system after Radz goes off is just plain silly.

Hume does not bring the same skills as Radz to the table, he's a completely different player and the formation should have been shifted accordingly.

[Kevin McMillan]

To this game, I say nothing, because there are no words that can accurately communicate the simple gesture of rolling my eyes as far back into their sockets as they can go.

[youllneverwalkalone]

My 2 cents:

-Mitchell should resign after this Wednesday's match, unless he can get 3 points

-I fully blame the players: they pooped the bed in spite of playing in their favourite stadium where, unlike the miraculous turnout in TO, tonight's match looked exactly like Swangard in '04 except with a shabbier pitch (no disrespect intended to the Vs and Us who attended.)

-Anyone not around in 2014 needs to quietly step away: Thank you Radzinski, Stalteri, Hastings, Serioux, Bernier, and McKenna, but we need to see Edgar, Hainault, Jankovic, De Jong, Ledgerwood, Simpson, Hoilett, etc from here on out.

-No matter how lame they are, we need to take FIFA rankings seriously to get back to the Hex. If we have to schedule every friendly between here and 2014 with Suriname to get our ranking up, so be it.

[Whither Canada]

1. I've never understood why people have no time for Radzinski but think the sun shines out of Hume's a$$. I'll still take Radz at age 34 over Hume any day. Radz can't give you 90 minutes, but neither can Hume, and Radz provides a lot more creativity.

2. Mitchell was a weak choice from Day 1. If Canada had qualified (I'll use the past tense after watching this game - there's not much reason for optimism) it would have been in spite of Mitchell, not because of him. He needs to go, but let him play out this round. Start the search after the Edmonton game. Alternatively, he resigns now and maybe Stephen Hart can step in to finish the round.

[nolando]

Canada in tough after loss to Honduras

Randy Phillips, Canwest News Service

A valiant effort wasn't enough.

Canada's senior men's team fell 2-1 last night to Honduras in a critical game in CONCACAF Group 2 qualifying for the 2010 FIFA World Cup in front of a boisterous near-capacity crowd of 12,338 at Saputo Stadium.

Canada took a 1-0 lead early in the game on a goal by defender Adrian Serioux, but midfielder Ramon Nunez fuelled Honduras' rally with two goals in the first 11 minutes of the second half, leaving Canada on the bad end of a 2-1 result and in a hole as far as qualifying for the World Cup for the first time since 1986.

It was a game of two halves," said Canadian captain Paul Stalteri. "We came out in the first and controlled the game, had the better part of the chances, and probably could have had a second goal, even maybe with a bit of luck a third one, who knows?

"Obviously it was really disappointing the way we came out in the second half. Really flat," he added. "Whenever you're up in a game you don't ever want to concede in the second half in the first five or 10 minutes and that's exactly what we did. Not only give up the first goal right away, but a second one shortly after."

Nunez tied the score in the 47th minute after taking a pass from midfielder Wilson Palacios and beating goalkeeper Lars Hirschfeld, who made his first start in Group 2 play, replacing Pat Onstad, who allowed a bad goal in a 1-1 draw with Jamaica in Canada's first test on Aug. 20 at BMO Field in Toronto.

Nunez took advantage of a defensive lapse to strike again in the 56th, taking another pass from Palacios before driving a shot past Hirschfeld and leaving Canada in disarray.

"It was a great start," Canadian coach Dale Mitchell said. "(But) after the goal I felt like we sat back too much. We should have definitely given them a bit more pressure because even in the first half it looked like (their) goal was coming before halftime.

"The two goals, unfortunately, came when we're in possession," he said. "We had the ball, gave it away and they break quickly which is a big part of the game at this level."

Canada regained its composure and came back with several quality opportunities late in the game, but it wasn't enough and making the matters worse was the sending-off of midfielder Patrice Bernier in the 74th after disputing a foul called on him by referee Walter Quesada, who headed up an all-Costa Rican officiating crew.

Canada, 0-1-1 in the group, now must face the lion that is favourite Mexico and do it on the road Wednesday.

The presence of a large contingent of Honduras supporters left Canada with a sense that the game saw nothing close to a home-field advantage.

"I don't think it was an away game for them," Stalteri said. "But obviously that's no excuse. It was lost in the second half. We just came out flat, that's the bottom line.

"In Honduras, we have a chance," he said. "There's still four games to play. With three away from home it does make it all that much more difficult for us, but it's not over yet."

Canada grabbed a 1-0 lead early in the game when Serioux headed a perfectly executed corner kick to the near side of the penalty box from Bernier past 'keeper Noel Valladares.

Canada was forced to play a man short for seven minutes from the 15th minute after forward Tomasz Radzinski suffered a serious cut to his right hand after catching it on the metal fence behind a banner at the left of the Honduras goal. Mitchell eventually brought on Iain Hume once it became clear Radzinski, who needed stitches, would not return.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/sports/story.html?id=88864ba3-6a1c-4b9b-a4bc-d316855dfe58

valiant effort my ass - geez, you could read those quotes from mitchell and guess that he wasnt even coaching in this game - i mean, at least take some flippin responsibility

"We should have definitely given them a bit more pressure"..well, geez, dale..i dunno, couldnt you have CREATED some bloody pressure by alternating the formation, swapping striker for midfielder (instead of striker for striker), or taking up any of the common suggestions that even the most uncreative armchair observer could have made....was subbing in jim brennan for hume the secret tactic you have been working on for months?

[Rivaldo]

I thought it was a well-played, close game. Canada had the better of the first half. In the second, Canada made two bad defensive mistakes and Honduras made them pay.

Stalteri was at fault for both goals. He left his man to "help" on Serioux's each time. He left Suazo wide open on the first. The second was not clear cut, but someone had to go to Nunez.

Serioux was giving them a lot of room and maybe they would have explited it, but Stalteri had to trust Serioux to do his job.

[kungfucultmaster]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

My 2 cents:

-No matter how lame they are, we need to take FIFA rankings seriously to get back to the Hex. If we have to schedule every friendly between here and 2014 with Suriname to get our ranking up, so be it.

Agreed 100%!!!!

The FIFA rankings are based on a points system. Points are earned by playing matches. If we can get our ranking up (by any means necessary) we won't be put in such difficult qualifying groups.

[paul-toronto]

Someone had mentioned that Dero does not play on Wednesday? Did he get a yellow card last night?

I sure hope not.

We need Radz and Dero in Mexico for any chance....and yes we need Friend starting, one of most productive players in B1 already this year. I saw his games...was excellent.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

My 2 cents:

-Mitchell should resign after this Wednesday's match, unless he can get 3 points

-Anyone not around in 2014 needs to quietly step away: Thank you Radzinski, Stalteri, Hastings, Serioux, Bernier, and McKenna, but we need to see Edgar, Hainault, Jankovic, De Jong, Ledgerwood, Simpson, Hoilett, etc from here on out.

-No matter how lame they are, we need to take FIFA rankings seriously to get back to the Hex. If we have to schedule every friendly between here and 2014 with Suriname to get our ranking up, so be it.

I agree on all the above points. If we can't take points in Mexico, Mitchell should resign straight away. There is no way he can stay on now. The U-20's were a disaster, now this.

No sense going through the motions, because half these players are now gone and we will never see them again in four years time. Start preparing them now for the Gold Cup. It will be interesting to see how many officially retire in the coming weeks/months.

I also agree completely regarding the FIFA rankings. We need more matches and it doesn't need to be against heavy weights like Brazil. We need to start playing more matches against CONCACAF opposition to crank up the FIFA rankings.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by paul-toronto

Someone had mentioned that Dero does not play on Wednesday? Did he get a yellow card last night?

I sure hope not.

We need Radz and Dero in Mexico for any chance....and yes we need Friend starting, one of most productive players in B1 already this year. I saw his games...was excellent.

The problem is not Friend, it's how we play with Friend. He get's no service and is always the lone target man with 3-4 defenders on top of him.

[Vic]

"was subbing in jim brennan for hume the secret tactic you have been working on for months?"

And if it was, should you have waited until the 85th minute with Hume struggling most of the game? I've seen Hume play both good and bad games. Last night he was struggling. Someone above quoted Mitchell saying we had possession and gave it away quickly while moving players up and they countered twice quickly. Hume's turnover rate was very high, including at least one that eventually led to one of those goals. I'm not inventing either one of those statements, and I really wonder why if he was going to go to Brennan Mitchell waited until the 85 minute.

The simple truth is we weren't sharp, and IMHO that is a VERY VERY large part attributable to the large Honduran cheering section. That has to just rip the heart out of players.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

You might as well let Mitchell finish his cycle, these four more games. If we don't the clans led by Lenarduzzi and company in BC will get all upset and start boycotting any changes at the CSA all over again. So you have to let him go easily and softly and start over again for the next Gold Cup. Let's win the Gold Cup and go to the Confed Cup and at least have some pleasure in the next few years.

The real way to act is at a local level, starting with our own provincial associations, pressuring for a different kind of provincial president and board committed to the national teams, men and women. Because these guys will end up controlling everything at the CSA and they might as well be minimally competent. It is the long hard way, but probably the only realistic way to bring about change in the CSA.

And change at the CSA would mean altering their professional structure and then looking for a truly quality coaching structure for both men and women, senior and younger.

[ray]

The turning point was the loss of Radzinski. Until then we were winning balls, creating chances, keeping possession. When we went down a man because of Radz's indury, Honduras began to take over in ball control. Even after we went back to 11 men, Canada were always chasing the ball.

I'm sorry to say that none of our guys really stepped forward to take control of the game. DeGuz, DeRo, Hume, Hutchinson - the guys we needed to have strong games didn't make a big impact. I would blame the coach for not re-organizing the team at half-time to pressure and win the ball like we did early in the 1st half. But other than that a lot of the blame has to go to the players themselves. Its one out of six points at home. If we can't beat a team like Honduras at home (with all due respect) we are not going to qualify for anything.

[JoeSoccerFan]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

The problem is not Friend, it's how we play with Friend. He get's no service and is always the lone target man with 3-4 defenders on top of him.

To be fair, I don't think there was too much problem in that department last night...Friend looked dangerous and got some decent service as we started to apply pressure in the final minutes. The problem was that he should have been on to start.

[Alberto7]

quote:Originally posted by JoeSoccerFan

To be fair, I don't think there was too much problem in that department last night...Friend looked dangerous and got some decent service as we started to apply pressure in the final minutes. The problem was that he should have been on to start.

Agreed. Friend was very dangerous but he should have come on a lot earlier. Gerba was asleep out there!

I see that no one has mentioned Hirschfeld so far. I was sitting at the other end of the stadium when he was scored on both times but it was clear to me that lack of playing time has hurt his game a lot. Now, who goes in on Wednesday? My choice is Onstad simply because he is playing regularly and will be sharper than Hirschfeld.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

My 2 cents:

-Mitchell should resign after this Wednesday's match, unless he can get 3 points

-I fully blame the players: they pooped the bed in spite of playing in their favourite stadium where, unlike the miraculous turnout in TO, tonight's match looked exactly like Swangard in '04 except with a shabbier pitch (no disrespect intended to the Vs and Us who attended.)

-Anyone not around in 2014 needs to quietly step away: Thank you Radzinski, Stalteri, Hastings, Serioux, Bernier, and McKenna, but we need to see Edgar, Hainault, Jankovic, De Jong, Ledgerwood, Simpson, Hoilett, etc from here on out.

-No matter how lame they are, we need to take FIFA rankings seriously to get back to the Hex. If we have to schedule every friendly between here and 2014 with Suriname to get our ranking up, so be it.

I agree with everything that you said. But the part that I highlighted concerns me. I haven't seen anything from the last two U20 teams to suggest any reason for great optimism in so far as future talent. In regards to the players highlighted, quite honnestly, I dont see where the great optimism for 2014 comes from in regards to that list. Granted I haven't seen Hoilett play so I will reserve judgement and I have barely seem Jakovic. But there is a huge difference between being U23 and playing somewhere versus actually being a prospect that you can project as a future talent.

But ask yourself this in regards to: Edgar, Hainault, De Jong, Ledgerwood, Simpson, If you were not Canadian and just a well informed soccer fan anywhere else in world, would you even know of those guys? and more importantly, would there be any reason to know more. There are some on that list, that I dont think are very good players.

[denis]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

I agree with everything that you said. But the part that I highlighted concerns me. I haven't seen anything from the last two U20 teams to suggest any reason for great optimism in so far as future talent. In regards to the players highlighted, quite honnestly, I dont see where the great optimism for 2014 comes from in regards to that list. Granted I haven't seen Hoilett play so I will reserve judgement and I have barely seem Jakovic. But there is a huge difference between being U23 and playing somewhere versus actually being a prospect that you can project as a future talent.

But ask yourself this in regards to: Edgar, Hainault, De Jong, Ledgerwood, Simpson, If you were not Canadian and just a well informed soccer fan anywhere else in world, would you even know of those guys? and more importantly, would there be any reason to know more. There are some on that list, that I dont think are very good players.

Depressing but true, this may be the best team we will see in a very long time. What a wasted opportunity.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

- we have undoubtedly the best team we have ever had. period

to be at least 50% for the opposition

Furthermore, it unlikely that we will see a player of Ju Deguzman's quality suit for Canada in the near future.

I would say 50% is incorrect. It was more like 80-90% for the opposition.

[MuirtonPark]

Almost everything above makes sense. Another point to be considered is that (except for De Guzman) most of the team plays in Northern Europe/Scandinavia, and this is their current style of play, which unfortunately does not work against Central American teams. Until we can play competitively in skill and tactics, we will keep losing. Perhaps the time has come to change style, and find Canadians who can adapt to the required tactics and win. And appoint a coach who does not plug along with 4-5-1 when the team is losing an important match.

I also agree with the comments on Hume, who was completely ineffective last night.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

Fresh off a 9 hour sleepless bus ride. Still can't believe what happened. When the header came off Gerba headed for goal I immediately thought we had the game won. But nothing was more annoying than the obnoxious post game celebrations. Congrats on the win but I don't need you screaming ON-DOO-RASS in my ear while I'm taking a post game piss.

[Lord Bob]

My walk back to the hotel took about an hour and twenty minutes down Rue Sherbrooke, and for the entire distance I was being passed by cars honking their horns and dangling Honduran flags.

I don't care for Montreal so much anymore. Funny, that.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Vic

And if it was, should you have waited until the 85th minute with Hume struggling most of the game? I've seen Hume play both good and bad games. Last night he was struggling. Someone above quoted Mitchell saying we had possession and gave it away quickly while moving players up and they countered twice quickly. Hume's turnover rate was very high, including at least one that eventually led to one of those goals. I'm not inventing either one of those statements, and I really wonder why if he was going to go to Brennan Mitchell waited until the 85 minute.

Hume had a poor match, which tainted his sub's contribution in the previous game. His biggest problem is from a tactical sense: when and where to pass, when to hold the ball and to let the play develop (i.e. using Klukowski to best effect), decision making stuff like that. Part of that may have to do with the league he has developed and played in during his entire career, part may have to do with that he doesn't play that position on a regular basis at club level, who knows. With Radzinski's loss and Issey unavailable we lost too much in terms of tactical buildup and possession play, and Bernier wasn't going to provide any attacking nous down the right side. Suddenly our team started looking like the guy who brought a knife to a gunfight.

[Cheeta]

I thought Hume was hobbled. Looked that way to me after a few tough knocks early after sub'ing in but maybe not. Didn't look like he had his usual legs last night.

Stadium looked awful except for 114. That's harsh for the casual Canadian fans (or less "hard core" non-V crowd). A lot of them don't know what to make of so many away supporters, energetic away supporters, all around them. Can intimidate them into silence as it were and mores the shame put them off attending future events.

Admission really made a mess of things from Day 1 and the CSA has a perfect excuse for never, ever, returning to Montreal until that organization gets it's **** sorted out. Of course with the number of votes Quebec has on the CSA BoD not likely that there'll be an embargo of Saputo any time soon. Hope the CSA made good money last night. Doubt its even close to the tens of millions in appearance money FIFA will be giving the World Cup finalists never mind the sponsorship money that would be garnered from a trip to SA but whatever.

Serioux! Text book goal from the corner. Think they've done that one once or twice on the training grounds this week. Well done.

Bernier? Man...

Our back line looked a shambles, an absolute shambles at times. Some of that just because they were put into a bad way by what happened further up field (unexpectedly) and some of it was their own fault. Very discouraging.

Enough for now. Going to give the match a watch right away and maybe change my opinion on some things but one thing that isn't going to change is the fact we're in a deep, deep, hole now and barring a miracle are going to need help from other teams to win away that 2nd spot in the group from Honduras.

That being said we always play better as these tourneys go on, and especially when the lads have their feet put to the fire. This side can get road points yet. Hope they'll be enough.

[Ivan]

Our best players were not our best players. Tough to win when that happens.