Canada's starting goalie.......

[Winnipeg Fury]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/blogs/2008/09/01/dobson_keeper_quandary/

[Winnipeg Fury]

From the CSA:

Tuesday 01 September 2008

Canada arrives in Montréal

Coach Dale Mitchell and his troops have arrived in Montréal in anticipation of this Saturday’s 6 September match against Honduras. The team had its first training session this morning with the first group of players that arrived over the weekend.

'We had nine players (this morning) and we will get a good portion of guys throughout the rest of the day,' said Mitchell after the team’s two-hour practice at the Complexe sportif Claude-Robillard. 'We should be very close to full strength tomorrow and should have everyone by Wednesday.'

Canada is playing six matches against three teams in Stage III of the 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa™ Qualifiers. Three of those matches are in Canada: 20 August against Jamaica in Toronto (a 1:1 draw), 6 September against Honduras in Montréal (admission.com or 514.790.1245) and 15 October against Mexico in Edmonton (Ticketmaster.ca / 780.451.8000).

'We will just work everyday and make sure that by the time Saturday comes around, everybody will focused on the match here in Montréal,' said Mitchell.

Unlike Canada’s last match on 20 August in Toronto, the team will have nearly a full week together in Montréal.

'I think the time for the guys to adjust from coming over from Europe is big,' said Mitchell. 'I think that a couple of guys suffered with that on the Wednesday night game (on 20 August), maybe they weren’t quite 100%. Everybody should be very close to 100% by the time we play on Saturday (6 September).'

[Robert]

Dale, it's still not too late to get Josh to Montreal in time for Saturday's game against Honduras. The mark of a great coach is to come up with the right solution when confronted with an unexpected and difficult situation. An World Cup match between Italy and Ireland comes to mind. After Ireland had gone a goal up, the Italian goalie handled the ball outside his crease. He was red-carded and sent off. In the blink of an eye, the Italian coach was forced to make a tough decision, he had take off one of his out-field players, in order to sub in a goalie. The man who got taken off, was non other than Roberto Baggio, who had been invisable up until that point. I remember Bob Lenarduzzi commenting at the time, that he didn't understand why the Italian coach was taking off Italy's best player. Well of course the rest was history, Roberto Baggio came back better than ever in the following match, and almost single-handedly led Italy to the World Cup final, which they lost on penalties. I guess that's why Lenarduzzi never got further than coaching the Whitecaps. No disrespect to Bob or the Whitecaps, millions would have agreed with Dapper Bob at the time. Dale, you can be great if you get Wagenaar in goal on Saturday, or you can screw up again, and become just another forgotten Canadian coach who could beat a beatable team in World Cup qualifying. Anything less than win against Honduras on Saturday and our World Cup qualifying campaign will be over.

[Lurker]

I think the keeper decision has already been made. It'll likely be Onstad with Lars backing up (Sutton is just there to practice before his child is born). I think Mitchell is hoping that Onstad will make up for his earlier blunder. I wouldn't waiver, if he's sticking with Onstad, instill confidence and be done with it. I'd be leaning towards Lars myself, not because I think he's the answer (he could be), but because the wounds Onstad has caused have scared and wont heal =(.

[Vancouver Fan]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

Dale, it's still not too late to get Josh to Montreal in time for Saturday's game against Honduras. The mark of a great coach is to come up with the right solution when confronted with an unexpected and difficult situation. An World Cup match between Italy and Ireland comes to mind. After Ireland had gone a goal up, the Italian goalie handled the ball outside his crease. He was red-carded and sent off. In the blink of an eye, the Italian coach was forced to make a tough decision, he had take off one of his out-field players, in order to sub in a goalie. The man who got taken off, was non other than Roberto Baggio, who had been invisable up until that point. I remember Bob Lenarduzzi commenting at the time, that he didn't understand why the Italian coach was taking off Italy's best player. Well of course the rest was history, Roberto Baggio came back better than ever in the following match, and almost single-handedly led Italy to the World Cup final, which they lost on penalties. I guess that's why Lenarduzzi never got further than coaching the Whitecaps. No disrespect to Bob or the Whitecaps, millions would have agreed with Dapper Bob at the time. Dale, you can be great if you get Wagenaar in goal on Saturday, or you can screw up again, and become just another forgotten Canadian coach who could beat a beatable team in World Cup qualifying. Anything less than win against Honduras on Saturday and our World Cup qualifying campaign will be over.

That game was against Norway but point taken.

[Winnipeg Fury]

Not popular, but I hope Mitchell sticks with Onstad, because I think he's the best of the three at this moment.

Lars can not be considered after not playing in months.

[michaeltfc91]

If we make the world cup will we be playing with a 42/43 year old keeper? kind of old... pick Lars or Sutton and stick with him the whole tourney

[VPjr]

If Lars practices well, its going to be Lars. that's what my gut tells me.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

Dale, it's still not too late to get Josh to Montreal in time for Saturday's game against Honduras.

BTW, Josh Wagenaar has no business on a senior MNT roster. He is simply not good enough at this point in his career. He needs to improve ALOT.

[Soju]

I don't know why Josh is being mentioned, is he your relative Robert? He's made his share of costly errors too. See the Olympic qualifying tourney and the WYC in Holland (his header) for details. So he's perhaps just as error prone as Onstad and Sutton but has far less experience. It makes absolutely no sense to call him.

[trueviking]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

Lars can not be considered after not playing in months.

i know its only a matter of opinion, but i dont count players out who are not playing first team football at the moment...its not like he is sitting on the couch every day...he is training at a high level to be ready to step in for his team at any time.

for me, especially when considering the lack of talent as an alternative, it should go to the best player, which i consider lars to be.

if lars was playing it wouldnt even be a question...it seems the odds that he wont be rusty are better than the odds that one of the others wont blow it.

[loyola]

It's a gamble for DM. I say start Lars but I would understand if Onstad does start. Sutton, I doubt we'll see him starts (specially witht he reports that he's awaiting his first child on Sept 5th).

[RJB]

quote:Originally posted by michaeltfc91

If we make the world cup will we be playing with a 42/43 year old keeper? kind of old...

The age of a keeper is really not important. Goalkeeping is one a position that someone can be at for many years. The names Peter Shilton and Dino Zoff come to mind. I have no problem with playing Pat as a 42 year old or 43 year old, as long as he is getting the job done. Conversely, even at 30, a coach will be(should be) thinking of replacing an outfield player.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I don't buy this bollocks about no startng Lars cause he isn't playing for his club. Lars is never playing for his club! Did that stop him from his Gold Cup heroics in 2002? I have nothing against Sutton or Onstad, but Lars is the only keeper other than Forrest in our (my) generation that has won Canada matches. Overall, I don't think the keeper is going to matter much on Saturday. If we don't completely overwhelm Honduras with all this prep, playing on the ground chosen by the players, we all really phucked anyway. However, this match could help get Hirsch ready for Mexico -where we defintely need our keeper to steal a point.

[loyola]

Well, I don't buy this "Lars is the only keeper other than Forrest in our (my) generation that has won Canada matches" bollock either. Here's a list of Lars wins (6) for Canada:

2007 W 3:0 Bermuda (friendly)

2004 W 1:0 Guatemala (meaningless WCQ)

2003 W 1:0 Costa Rica (2003 GC, he played really well)

2002 W 3:1 Swiss Confederation (friendly)

2002 W 2:1 Korea (GC third palce game)

2002 W 2:0 Haiti (GC group stage)

So if your saying Lars is the only one who wins for Canada because of that CR game in 2003, you have to take into the equation the fine performances of Onstad against CR and Haiti in 2007 as well.

Here's some stats for Lars and Pat:

Onstad record: 56 caps, 22 wins, 20 loses, 14 draw.

Lars: 22 caps, 6 wins, 10 loses, 3 draws. (he played in 2 wins that were credited to Onstad and Forrest and one defeat that was credited to Onstad).

I don't think those numbers means much but I just can't understand the perception that Lars is a "winner" when he plays for us (nice heroics saves against the USA in 2002 but that's about it in term of great performances).

[Robert]

I stand corrected. It was against Norway. Thanks for pointing it out the way you did! However, the coach in question, Sacchi, did make what turned out to be the brilliant substitution of Baggio.

And no Soju, I'm not related to Josh, although one might get that impression based on how highly I recommend playing him against Honduras. Yes, every goalie in the world lets in goals that should not have gone in. The main difference is WHEN these occur. With Pat Onstad they have happened in three similar situations. The third one sould have been prevented if his coach had paid attention to these sort of details. Now Dale's choice for the match against Honduras has become that much more difficult. Had he started Sutton against Jamaica, like I recommended, then even if Sutton had stunk the joint out, he could have come back with Pat against Honduras. Then Onstad would have been playing with an intensity of proving that Dale had made a mistake by not having picked him for the first game. Now if Dale starts Onstad against Honduras, Pat will have the f_ck up in the back of his mind for the entire match. I would rather have a Pat Onstad in goal with the first mentioned frame of mind. Wouldn't you?

quote:Originally posted by Vancouver Fan

That game was against Norway but point taken.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Hey Loyola,

Onstad loses big matches for us. Full stop. Sutton has never done anything spectacular. Lars was fantastic in the 2002 Gold Cup, when he didn't have a club. That was my main point. You're arguing with me over nothing. Since 2002, he hasn't had much of a chance because managers keep saying he can't play because his club form isn't good enough. That argument is rubbish , IMO. He's played great in the Champions League in very recent memory. He deserves a chance, and we have no other options anyway.

[loyola]

I agree that Onstad has cost us points in the past but it's false to pretend that Lars has won us games....that was my point.

It's nice for Lars to have had a couple of great games in the CL but what do we make of the fact that he played poorly in the Romanian League and couldn't even won his starting spot back during preseason?

Lars was inconsistent in 2002 GC BTW, playing great (USA) and poorly (Martinique). Clearly, he looked like a guy who needed a club, you could see his potential but could also see his weaknesses. If Martinique had better finishing on that day where Lars was flapping at crosses, we would've never heard of him again...

In the end, I'm kind of agreeing with you that we should start Lars but please don't make it sounds like it's a no-brainer, it isn't and Lars has done nothing in recent games for us to make us so confident with him.

[tmac55]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

Hey Loyola,

Onstad loses big matches for us. Full stop. Sutton has never done anything spectacular. Lars was fantastic in the 2002 Gold Cup, when he didn't have a club. That was my main point. You're arguing with me over nothing. Since 2002, he hasn't had much of a chance because managers keep saying he can't play because his club form isn't good enough. That argument is rubbish , IMO. He's played great in the Champions League in very recent memory. He deserves a chance, and we have no other options anyway.

Well said.... any goalie that can draw Chelsea 0-0 at Stamford Bridge in a champions league game, is good enough to start in my books for Canada.. Come on now.. I do not want to see Onstad at 42 playing for us in the world cup.. Eventually Dale has to turn this over to Lars or Greg, so give Lars the chance and he will do what he has always done.. That is nothing special but give us a consistent goalkeeper in net and give us a chance to win games. Who cares, if he isn't playing for his club... He knows how to play still.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

I just can't understand the perception that Lars is a "winner" when he plays for us

I think, as I have said numerous times in the past, that that perception stems only from the fact that he plays in Europe. And some dont bother to assess performance but rather fallback to the old " Europe Good...North American Bad" without understanding that when it comes to Europe there are endless standards and levels of play.

How did Lars end up in to Europe to begin with? Whose to say that the other incumbents for the starting GK job would not have had greater success if they had bothered to go to Europe? held a european passport? Or, sought the kind of representation to get them there? or had the right contacts? Maybe Sutton and Onstad believed that they were better off in terms standard of play to stay with their NA clubs instead of some of places that Lars went. In the time that Onstad has played for San Jose/Houston and Sutton with Montreal/TFC, How many clubs has Lars played for? For GK's ( unlike position players) stability and maintaining starting assignments is far more important than where you play.

That said, at this point I would be more comfortable with anyone other than Onstad.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by tmac55

Well then why didn't they retain him?

[Jason]

I think they should go with Lars, but I'm the first to admit I'm biased as he's been one of my favourites for a long time.

I can't justify going back to Onstad. There is a good chance Sutton won't be available, and that mistake at the end of the Chivas game didn't give me a warm feeling. Lars has played in big games for club (the Chelsea match) and country (Gold Cup). I think he's the best of the lot.

And there is no way we could justify putting in Wagenaar. That's way too much of a risk.

Jason

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

If you mean Rosenborg, there were a few million (Euro) reasons to let him go to Cluj. You couldn't get bus fare for Sutton or Onstad right now.

Sorry to break it to you, but the best North American players go to Europe. There are always good ones who stay behind and I was more than happy to Onstad get one more chance, but he blew it. I'm okay with Sutton. I did see some good stops against Chivas, but I still think Lars is the only keeper with the ability to steal a point against Mexico.

[loyola]

There's a reason why Onstad can't sign in Europe, it's call age.

Bring a tape of the Pachuca game or any other recent good performances with Houston and give that to some Euro scouts/coaches and tell them the guy they are seeing play is 28-30 yrs old. Don't you think he could get a job in Europe?

Historicaly, the best MLS keepers goes to Europe (Guzan, Hahnemann, Adin Brown, Perkins, etc) and Pat has been among the best MLS keepers for 5 years now. The only reason why he's not an attractive signing is his age, and that doesn't have anything to do with how good he is.

[Bxl Boy]

WHERE IS KENNY ???