AvroArrow Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Everynow and then I'll read a post (either here, RedPatchBoys.....) about how TFC is stockpiling draft picks in trades and how this is a great thing. However, here are all the players that TFC has drafted over the last two years: 2007 Maurice Edu (sold to Rangers) Andrew Boyens (released) Rich Asante (released) Jeff Gonsalves (last I heard, in USL) 2008 Julius James (still with team) Pat Phelan (traded to NE) Brian Edwards (still with team, back up keeper) Mike Zaher (rights traded to DC) Joseph Lapira (in Norway) So of the 9 players drafted over the past two years, only two remain with the team, leading me to wonder if its even possible to build a team through the draft like you can in other professional sports. If you draft a great player who isn't good enough to play in Europe right away, he'll more then likely be sold to a European club if he starts playing well. If you draft crap, he'll be released before even seeing the field once. To a certain extent, the draft picks only seem to be useful to trade between teams when one team is looking to just get rid of a player (eg. Ruiz, Cunningham) So what's the solution? Only draft players who are decent, but have no shot at Europe? Or has TFC been taking notes from the Leafs and is just one lousy organization when it comes to scouting/drafting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Well, that's 22 % still with the team and 55 % still in the league. Doesn't seem that useless to me using your logic. There is also as many as 4 teams coming into the league in the next 4 years meaning these picks may be all the more important, at least until the academies start bearing fruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstackho Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 I'm not saying that the draft is a good system, but it's pretty easy to calculate the value of the Edu draft pick. Two-thirds of $5 million. Compare that to the franchise fee of $10 million and it starts to look like a nifty business to be in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Your missing the two supplemental draft picks from 2007 that are still with the team (Jarrod Smith & Tyler Hemming). Despite this yield (greater percentage-wise than the Superdraft at this point in time) Mo barely used any in 2008 (just one) and now has traded away the first two picks in the 2009 supp draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanKeay Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 This thread is a joke, how can you say that the mls draft is useless... Look at the players who have entred the league thru the draft in the past 5 years. Adu, Dempsey, Guzan, Parkhurst, Wynne, Klesjten, Edu.... These guys were all 1st rounders and came thru the american college system, there are a great deal of servicable players in the draft. The problem with TFC is the fact that they cant afford to work with projects because the players are mostly american. On the other hand, i have no idea what Mo is planning to do with 3 1st round picks. He must be working on a blockbuster deal to bring a player in because we will no have room to pick up 3 1st round players unless there generation adidas. Maybe its a touchy subject for me since i follow the draft as job, but there is no way you can say that it is useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 I think the thread starter maybe meant it from a more TFC-centric viewpoint? For TFC it is less relevant than for other teams, and should be more about quality of draftees than quantity. If i were Mo, i would be trying to routinely package multiple picks to move up the draft ladder or acquire players, allocation $$ etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Isn't this years draft supposed to be the deepest for Canadian talent in recent memory. I think that it would be a good idea to have a lot of options. Perhaps Andrew W can chime in. But i recall a post from him a while of all the Canadians in NCAA whereby most of the quality talent was slated to graduate this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 One of those slated to graduate was Dejan Jakovic, but he signed with Red Star Belgrade rather than stick around for the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca One of those slated to graduate was Dejan Jakovic, but he signed with Red Star Belgrade rather than stick around for the draft. If I am not mistaken or outdated, here are some of the names that come to mind: Obrien White Kerr Mcleod Domenic Oppong Gaby Seguin Gauthier Alex Elliot Carlo Schivone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 What about Kyle Hall of Syracuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 O'Brien White is really Jamaican though might count as a domestic for TFC. I think Alex Elliott is playing in Germany. I forgot all about Carlo Schiavone - good player for us back in 2005. I just hope we draft some of the other guys & give them a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca O'Brien White is really Jamaican though might count as a domestic for TFC. I think Alex Elliott is playing in Germany. I forgot all about Carlo Schiavone - good player for us back in 2005. I just hope we draft some of the other guys & give them a chance. Others that come to mind from past U20 or U17 squads: Toussaint Ricketts Massumi Turnbull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 To Ricketts tried out in Sweden, but wasn't signed. Not sure if he went back to school or is trying other options. I thought Schiavone went back to the Italian lower leagues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by SeanKeay This thread is a joke, how can you say that the mls draft is useless... Look at the players who have entred the league thru the draft in the past 5 years. Adu, Dempsey, Guzan, Parkhurst, Wynne, Klesjten, Edu.... These guys were all 1st rounders and came thru the american college system, there are a great deal of servicable players in the draft. The problem with TFC is the fact that they cant afford to work with projects because the players are mostly american. On the other hand, i have no idea what Mo is planning to do with 3 1st round picks. He must be working on a blockbuster deal to bring a player in because we will no have room to pick up 3 1st round players unless there generation adidas. Maybe its a touchy subject for me since i follow the draft as job, but there is no way you can say that it is useless. Sean, relax. You have some very good points, enough to win the argument, so there is no need to get flippant and call the thread a joke. Sometimes you take things personally, and you shouldn't. His was a valid question, which was easily rebuked, but your reactionary/emotional response is far, far too defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Ivan I thought Schiavone went back to the Italian lower leagues? Its the exact opposite with Schiavone. He was in Italy (I believe with the Salernitana youth set up) and came back to North America to go to school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket Robin Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 2007 Maurice Edu (sold to Rangers) Andrew Boyens (released) Rich Asante (released) Jeff Gonsalves (last I heard, in USL) Interesting that I saw Richard Assante play for the CSL Italia Shooters vs Toronto Croatia on Friday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvroArrow Posted August 26, 2008 Author Share Posted August 26, 2008 quote:Originally posted by SeanKeay This thread is a joke, how can you say that the mls draft is useless... Look at the players who have entred the league thru the draft in the past 5 years. Adu, Dempsey, Guzan, Parkhurst, Wynne, Klesjten, Edu.... These guys were all 1st rounders and came thru the american college system, there are a great deal of servicable players in the draft. You seem to miss my point. A quick look at the players you listed: Adu - gone Dempsey - gone Guzan - gone Parkhurst - NE Wynne - TFC Edu - gone How are these players currently benefitting the team that drafted them? Sure, they provided some cash when they were sold, but I'd rather have an excellent player in his prime over cash any day. So in the end, if you draft well, all your left with is a sack of cash. And in a salary cap system, having lots of cash doesn't necessarily mean a better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 The NCAA draft is critical to MLS's economic model because it provides a large number of players every year who are ready to play pro or very close to it, who will accept low wages relative to what is available in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobiiiiiiiilio Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 quote:Originally posted by AvroArrow Everynow and then I'll read a post (either here, RedPatchBoys.....) about how TFC is stockpiling draft picks in trades and how this is a great thing. However, here are all the players that TFC has drafted over the last two years: 2007 Maurice Edu (sold to Rangers) Andrew Boyens (released) Rich Asante (released) Jeff Gonsalves (last I heard, in USL) 2008 Julius James (still with team) Pat Phelan (traded to NE) Brian Edwards (still with team, back up keeper) Mike Zaher (rights traded to DC) Joseph Lapira (in Norway) So of the 9 players drafted over the past two years, only two remain with the team, leading me to wonder if its even possible to build a team through the draft like you can in other professional sports. If you draft a great player who isn't good enough to play in Europe right away, he'll more then likely be sold to a European club if he starts playing well. If you draft crap, he'll be released before even seeing the field once. To a certain extent, the draft picks only seem to be useful to trade between teams when one team is looking to just get rid of a player (eg. Ruiz, Cunningham) So what's the solution? Only draft players who are decent, but have no shot at Europe? Or has TFC been taking notes from the Leafs and is just one lousy organization when it comes to scouting/drafting? I think you have to look at the entire league and how the draft has panned out for other teams as well.....if you get one Maurice Edu it's totally worth it....have a look at New England's draft history and how they have completely built a team around the draft...certainly they have not won the final, but they have been top of the table for years and to the final for 3 years straight and 4 of the last 6 years overall. 2002 Taylor Twellman 1st Round 2nd overall 2002 Shalrie Joseph 2nd Round 14th overall 2003 Pat Noonan 1st Round 9th overall 2004 Clint Dempsey 1st Round 8th overall 2005 Michael Parkhurst 1st Round 9th overall Not Bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 quote:Originally posted by SeanKeay Maybe its a touchy subject for me since i follow the draft as job, but there is no way you can say that it is useless. Question: How would the league change if the draft were eliminated? If Edu had been ready for Rangers two years ago, it seems to me he would have signed with them then. With the cap, if another club other than TFC wanted to sign Edu, they would have to release a pretty good player. So it seems to me Toronto would have had more or less an equal chance to sign him without a draft. I don't think any of the guys mentioned in this thread played in MLS simply because they were drafted. In these cases they play/played because they need the experience. Maybe a few of them would have gone to a different club within the league, but the cap is a great equaliser. Sure, it's great to have $3.3m, but TFC might have been able to sign someone who would be help the club win today if they had been beaten to Edu's signature. So naming names of players who have been drafted doesn't really convince me that the draft is inherently a good idea. The only plus I can really see is that it might be a drag on salaries. But being that I'm not an MLS owner, this doesn't really excite me much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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