Post-Pellerud - What Now?

[Soccerpro]

quote:Originally posted by soccertaxi

Be fair, she never said men are useless...

"The men's team is not at the Olympics," she said. "It's a shame to hear men's players saying that when they are no where."

She could have been more tactful and said when they are 79th...

Given the full context and timing of the comments I still think that she is being unfairly criticized for speaking her mind while DeVos is being heralded for speaking his.

Or she could say the Men are 79th, while us woman only have 12 oher countries in the world as competition and still can't get a sniff of any tournament final...

[fishman]

Sinclair speaking her mind?

Let's be serious here...DeVos was paid by the CBC to be a colour commentator. Just for poops and giggles, Wikipedia states that "the color commentator provides expert analysis and background information, such as statistics, strategy and injury reports, on the teams and athletes, and occasionally light humor."

DeVos provided just that...thus, he did his job. He didn't attack Sinclair, or the players. He provided opinions on the strategy and tactics employed by Pellerud. And he wasn't a CSA apologist.

In contrast, Sinclair made it personal. She wasn't fulfilling her job as captain. I concede she made her comments in the heat of her disappointment, but let's not say she is being unfairly criticized.

[Vic]

^ de Vos is a paid commentator expressing a technical opinion supported by virtually everyone in the game. Sinclair threw a divisive low class blow that the women's program will suffer from for a long time. You think the women had it bad before... wait and see now that they've insulted the men.

[terpfan68]

People are making a mountain out of a mole hill. It's almost like your hiping Wrestle Mania LX.

[The Ref]

I am glad to see that somebody like Jason De Vos has spoken the truth and called things for what they are. Pellerud owes his job to Sinclair.

[soccertaxi]

quote:Originally posted by Vic

^ You think the women had it bad before... wait and see now that they've insulted the men.

I see, I see...the wrath of the boys club has descended upon them. No forgiveness for comments made in the heat of the moment. Sinclair should be banished...like all of the male players who have made stupid comments in the past.

This is why there are few female posters on this site, and I suspect that you like it better that way.

[Quebituni]

Female poster here... Kudos to Jason DeVos for calling a spade a spade. He didn't say anything that we haven't all thought at one time or another during Pellerud's tenure. Heat of the moment notwithstanding, Sinclair's comments were bitchy to be sure. She should take her knocks for talking through her ass. Imagine the uproar if the situation were reversed and De Rosario made the same remarks about the WNT. Quelle horreur! The way I see it, this is the price we pay for playing with the big boys. No need to be pulling the double standard card.

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by terpfan68

People are making a mountain out of a mole hill. It's almost like your hiping Wrestle Mania LX.

Listen she acted out in detriment to the game she should be sanctioned, hopefully Mezarios will do his job and report to the CSA discipline ctte and lay a charge.

Heat of the moment or not .. its no defence Terpie .. surely you have been tossed or known people who have charged for much less ?

[Soju]

It's frustrating to see once again that there's this disdain the women have for the men when they're labouring under the same incompetence and for the same country (this has come up before regarding budgets). If Sinclair does something ANYTHING to prove to me she wants the Canadian game to improve and that she's not just another brainwashed member of the Cult of Pellerud, I'll happily forget any of this crap. She's still a legend and one of our most watchable players. IMO the only real issue here is that Sinclair in a moment of anger and insecurity threw Jason deVos in with "the men", when he's in fact a pundit and representing "the media". She should apologize for confusing the two and we can move on.

[The Ref]

Where is the outgoing coach on all of this? has he stepped up to defend her? The only thing I've read is that he too is bad mouthing Mr. De Vos, saying De Vos should look at his record! Give me a break, his record? that of 4th place, 9th place twice. What does his record got to do with his archaic style and failure to coach how to play soccer.

[loyola]

Sinclair should at least be proud enough to issue an apology for her divisive comment (that wasn't even accurate because De Vos isn't part of the U-23's and isn't a current MNT player). I hope the people who are protecting Sinclair can at least agree with that. Yes, she was caught in the heat of the moment but usually people caught in that situation present an apology after.

[Vic]

quote:

I see, I see...the wrath of the boys club has descended upon them. No forgiveness for comments made in the heat of the moment. Sinclair should be banished...like all of the male players who have made stupid comments in the past.

This is why there are few female posters on this site, and I suspect that you like it better that way.

The more intriguing question is why you reduce every single thing to being male and sexism?

[Vic]

quote:IMO the only real issue here is that Sinclair in a moment of anger and insecurity threw Jason deVos in with "the men", when he's in fact a pundit and representing "the media".

de Vos was our captain from 1999 until he retired in 2004. You would like to think our women's captain and a full-time Canadian soccer player would at least know that (the guy retired almost 5 years ago), but hey if they don't want to watch the men play or understand anything about them that's their deal.

And put me down for begs to differ - I don't believe it's at all acceptable as captain of the women's team to insult the men's program under any circumstances. And had our men's captain done that to our women's program it would be every ounce as unacceptable.

[CoachRich]

^How do you think the WP felt when the 2 D's said we feel we deserve your money?

[Vic]

If only life was about how we felt and not how we acted.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by CoachRich

^How do you think the WP felt when the 2 D's said we feel we deserve your money?

That was just an opinion from 2 players about funding issues. They were merely saying the MNT also needs support because they were feeling like the WNT was receiving more support in general.

Christine Sinclair were clearly dumb because she makes false associations between the U-23's MNT and Jason De Vos, MNT and Olympics and she's too ignorant to make the difference between the media (which Jason DeVos is a part of as a soccer analyst) and the MNT.

I'm sorry CoachRich and Terp, I've defended Pellerud decisions in the past and Sinclair performances, but I don't feel like I need to defend her here since her comments were inaccurate, divisive and ignorant. I can't understand why you can't admit that and need to allude to comments from a few months/years that have no relation to the present situation.

If the WNT was offended back then, they could've reply or asked questions at that time.

[soccertaxi]

quote:Originally posted by Vic

The more intriguing question is why you reduce every single thing to being male and sexism?

Interesting observation Vic, and in all fairness I can see why you would think that.

The truth is that I usually jump into this forum when I see things that bother me or when my point of view is not being represented, which happens to have been comments or topics that I consider sexist. I am a believer that if you don't agree with something then you need to speak up or else be quiet and accept the situation. I can't complain about something if I don't try to change it. I post regularly on GBR and with the exception of a discussion on Title IX, my posts have never been about sexism.

The Voyageur's board (correct me if I'm wrong) seems to be largely male dominated so I don't think it hurts to throw out the other side's perspective on events and comments once in a while. There are things that certain posters say here that they would never say on GBR because of the demographics on that site (more women and girls). I don't post very often, so obviously there are not that many posts that bother me. I guess I will have to start posting on other topics too.

You don't have to agree with me, discussion is what the forum is all about...I am always open to hearing the other side of the discussion, and if my comments are unfair to men, then let me know.

[Vic]

Glad to hear the story behind the picture and I appreciate your open and polite attitude and hope you stick around a while. The boards and the sport are pretty male dominated, and we're all working to try and change that. And in my case, I think that's why I was so disappointed by the comment in the first place. You work so hard to get respect and be taken seriously, and in one tragic sound bite you lose so much ground.

[CoachRich]

quote:Originally posted by Vic

Glad to hear the story behind the picture and I appreciate your open and polite attitude and hope you stick around a while. The boards and the sport are pretty male dominated, and we're all working to try and change that. And in my case, I think that's why I was so disappointed by the comment in the first place. You work so hard to get respect and be taken seriously, and in one tragic sound bite you lose so much ground.

Much like soccertaxi.

The object of bringing up WNT history of what has been said about their program is to give balance here.

I support both programs so I understand why the 2D's said what they said & cut them some slack. Same for Sinclair. I don't have to agree w/ what was said by either party but understanding why is important to give balance.

For me what's going on still comes back to the CSA not doing a good job at managing & getting $ for all programs to move ahead. The CSA never has enough $ to run all the programs, if they did things that have been said wouldn't happen. Right now as usual w/ the CSA, all the players are sensitive about keeping their programs going vs stop & starting all the time.

I hope everyone move on w/ this & remembers the men & the women wear the same colors :-)

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by CoachRich

Much like soccertaxi.

The object of bringing up WNT history of what has been said about their program is to give balance here.

I support both programs so I understand why the 2D's said what they said & cut them some slack. Same for Sinclair. I don't have to agree w/ what was said by either party but understanding why is important to give balance.

For me what's going on still comes back to the CSA not doing a good job at managing & getting $ for all programs to move ahead. The CSA never has enough $ to run all the programs, if they did things that have been said wouldn't happen. Right now as usual w/ the CSA, all the players are sensitive about keeping their programs going vs stop & starting all the time.

I hope everyone move on w/ this & remembers the men & the women wear the same colors :-)

You've always had difficulties with facts. Last year I showed you that our WNT was one of the top 5 teams in WWC in terms of preperation but you still found excuses for them (like not playing home friendly....which weren't making any sense because home friendly are technicaly easier than away friendly...).

Now, the facts are that Sinclair used the analysis of a media person (who happenned to be a former MNT captain) to take a shot at our current MNT and at the same time our U-23's (who were lacking funding compare to our WNT who had decent prep before their qualifications, 7 internationals games for the WNT vs. 0 for the men's). That low blow was taken in term of result, which is a lot different than what the 2 D's talked about with the medias. They were discussing funding of the program and didn't take a low blow at the WNT at the same time.

Please, admit that an apology is badly needed in this instance.

[piltdownman]

Not another penny should go into long ball.

[Oldnav]

My-oh-my, the audacity of a WOMAN to say something about the chauvinist attitude of the press and the soccer (football for purists) establishment in Canada.

Watch out guys, when the women make up their mind that are going to advance they will wipe the floor with you.

Just look at the female enrollment in universities (over 60%), the number of lawyers in training, etc.. Have any of you looked at the female scholarship awards at your local high school? 75% are female.Look at the females in the support organizations for amateur sport. The donkey work is done by women, the men get the glory, and the press. They are coming to get you, just ask your mother or your sister!!.

[Vic]

While we're on the male/female topic... I remember posting a while back about the number of women coaching or assistant coaching our national women's teams in other sports and the numbers were astoundlingly high. Right now the WNT is in a bit of a vacuum and there are a lot of loose ends with Pellerud gone after running the entire show for a decade. So here's the question - can a man be in touch enough with how women think/feel/see things to bring it all back together as well as a woman could? Or another way - do women see things like men or do they have a distinct viewpoint they bring to things regardless of the level of competition? And if they do, how important is that, and if you are Stephen Hart how do you weight that as a factor when comparing candidates? It sounds like a dumb question, it was just prompted by my being really impressed with how Sundhage has done it and wondering if the fact that she's a woman hasn't been more important than people realize.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by Oldnav

My-oh-my, the audacity of a WOMAN to say something about the chauvinist attitude of the press and the soccer (football for purists) establishment in Canada.

Watch out guys, when the women make up their mind that are going to advance they will wipe the floor with you.

Just look at the female enrollment in universities (over 60%), the number of lawyers in training, etc.. Have any of you looked at the female scholarship awards at your local high school? 75% are female.Look at the females in the support organizations for amateur sport. The donkey work is done by women, the men get the glory, and the press. They are coming to get you, just ask your mother or your sister!!.

It sounds that a woman really stick to you.

[Soju]

quote:Originally posted by Oldnav

My-oh-my, the audacity of a WOMAN to say something about the chauvinist attitude of the press and the soccer (football for purists) establishment in Canada.

Watch out guys, when the women make up their mind that are going to advance they will wipe the floor with you.

Just look at the female enrollment in universities (over 60%), the number of lawyers in training, etc.. Have any of you looked at the female scholarship awards at your local high school? 75% are female.Look at the females in the support organizations for amateur sport. The donkey work is done by women, the men get the glory, and the press. They are coming to get you, just ask your mother or your sister!!.

If you are so secure about being a woman, why are you desperately trying to qualify your gender to men here with this diatribe? You seem to be confused. Please stop. This is not the 1950's. We are in fact PRO women in sports or else we would not be posting our opinions in the Women's Soccer forum.