CSA love-in

[Saviola7]

It was almost one year ago that we were ready to draw and quarter the CSA, but now all this talk has just reduced back to murmurs. So what happenend? Did the CSA actually get their act together? Or did we simply decide to focus our efforts elsewhere?

I think there is still much room for improvement, but I think we should give them credit where it's due. On the other hand, some newer Vs might not know where this animosity is coming from.

So, say in the past two years, what have they done right and wrong?

Right:

-Help bring MLS to TO (and possibly a number of other Canadian cities)

-Scheduled a decent amount of friendlies in 2007/08

-Reserved organised supporters sections for CMNT home matches in 2007/08

-Allowed the V's cup to be the trophy of the Canadian Championship

-Set up the Canadian Championship and pushed for a birth into the CCL

-Got CBC to show all matches (at least online)

Wrong:

-Didn't schedule enough friendlies in 2006 (could have got invovled in a number of team's WC prep)

-Didn't schedule enough home friendlies in 2006/07

-Waited 8 months to hire a coach, overuled a hiring of the selection comittee's choice

-Hired a CEO, then dismissed them immediately

-Failed to cooperate with (thus resulting in the resignation of) the former President and CEO

-Failed to turn a profit while still selling out the U20 WC

-Failed to market Costa Rica friendly properly

-Failed to inject fresh blood, fell back on 'old boys club' hiring

My memory is pretty poor, so feel free to correct me, but I think it's good to have a report card, especially since we were so livid last year, and seemed to have cooled down.

I was going to include something about Evan Pellerud, but that seems a little to touchy ...

[youllneverwalkalone]

Good post, and good to note some success. I don't think anyone is ready to say they support the Association yet, but if you're going to criticise, it's good to give them their due from time to time. Helps lend to one's credibility.

The one thing I would point out is that the CSA is a not-for-profit organization and I've never once seen any indication that the U20 was intended to earn a profit for its membership. My belief is that the tourney should be judged a financial success as there was no budget shortfall. Being on budget is the goal of such an event, as far as I know.

Having said this, I can't accept the claim that home friendlies inherently lose money. To me, this is an extremely tired and unprofessional attitude. Just because this is an NPO, doesn't mean it can be run without professionalism.

Just my 2 cents, on the up and downs of recent times.

[redhat]

I have a more distinct feeling that the CSA is trying, at the very least, to accommodate

its important fans and that means the Voyageurs. I feel good about the efforts of Peter

Montopoli about the Voyageurs Cup and the Voyageurs sections. This we can build on.

It's a win-win if the MNT gets strong support and we get to the World Cup.

[Grizzly]

Having heard some less than inspiring interviews with Dominic Maestracci and Victor Montagliani at the beginning of their tenure and having liked Linford and what he was trying to do for the national team, I was pretty negative about the direction the CSA was headed. So far I have been pleasantly surprised with the CSA this year. Whether this is because of Montopoli or the two directors or both I am not sure. The big test will be whether this improved management style continues throughout WCQ. Mitchell's performance as coach will go a long way into determining how we judge the Maestracci and Montagliani administration especially since he will be competing directly against the guy those two wouldn't hire. There is still a lot of work to be done in improving the CSA and I still think there needs to be fundamental structural change but at least things seem to be on the right track for once.

[Cheeta]

Pretty much what Griz wrote. I think a lot of people around here are taking a wait-and-see approach. See if a positive evolution is really under.

But I think the lack of hatchets for the CSA around here these days has less to do with a reassessment by the Vs of their feelings for the federation and more to do with the simple fact WCQ is upon us and the collective eye of the Voyageurs are focused towards the upcoming home matches. Nothing wrong with a fan based organization not being able to concentrate on more than the One Big Thing at a time. It's the nature of such things.

But fundamentally the CSA needs to be melted down and re-minted and I fully expect that in the breather between this Group stage and The Hex CSA governance reform could creep up into the fore front again.

[Guest Ed]

I think they have earned a lot of good will with the Voyageurs Cup bit (over and above the Cup competition itself) and the cooperation over filling our stadiums with CDN fans.

But more than that, I think Cdn soccer is gaining and gaining DESPITE the CSA. Three healthy (and two of those quite ambitious) pro franchises, more and more success stories from our Canucks abroad, Julian's tremendous emergence as a star, TFC's almost 'perfect storm' of fan support, corporate support and big bucks professional ownership.

[The Ref]

Whatever happened with the so called C.S.F.? They were all gang ho for a while and got many of us all round up. But since their initial thrust, they seemed to have fallen asleep or did they get bought out by the CSA?

[CanadianTraveller]

I couldn't say what happened to the CSF, but any good protest organization in the world of amateur sport is only as good as the competition(s) it was able to draw, and therefore the athlete support it would obtain. Since the CSF was never going to be FIFA-sanctioned within a single quadrennial (which is about the attention span of 95% of the people interested), its lifespan was practically guaranteed. Not the first protest organization by a long shot, won't be the last. Didn't stand a chance...other than overthrowing the directorate of the CSA.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

Whatever happened with the so called C.S.F.? They were all gang ho for a while and got many of us all round up. But since their initial thrust, they seemed to have fallen asleep or did they get bought out by the CSA?

LOL....yeah, they bought us a coffee and we threw in the towel..

Right now, we are focused on issues that have a strong liklihood of coming to fruition and which we hope will bring about tangible benefit to Canadian soccer in the medium to long term.

As for the CSA, there are still fundamental issues with the organization that are major stumbling blocks and which I don't foresee improving anytime soon (i.e. the fact that the provincial associations continue to dominate the CSA agenda, essentially handcuffing the ability of the national body to focus on important national issues, is still a BIG problem in my books) but, for now, its probably better to engage the new people at the CSA and try to get them involved in the push to improve the soccer landscape rather than cast them off. Right now, the focus is on a) improving elite player development opportunities across Canada and qualifying for the WC2010.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

its probably better to engage the new people at the CSA and try to get them involved in the push to improve the soccer landscape rather than cast them off. Right now, the focus is on a) improving elite player development opportunities across Canada and qualifying for the WC2010.

Good for you guys. The holistic approach is far better and credible.

However, I would put ( ahead of (a). Let's qualify ffs!

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

LOL....yeah, they bought us a coffee and we threw in the towel..

Right now, we are focused on issues that have a strong liklihood of coming to fruition and which we hope will bring about tangible benefit to Canadian soccer in the medium to long term.

As for the CSA, there are still fundamental issues with the organization that are major stumbling blocks and which I don't foresee improving anytime soon (i.e. the fact that the provincial associations continue to dominate the CSA agenda, essentially handcuffing the ability of the national body to focus on important national issues, is still a BIG problem in my books) but, for now, its probably better to engage the new people at the CSA and try to get them involved in the push to improve the soccer landscape rather than cast them off. Right now, the focus is on a) improving elite player development opportunities across Canada and qualifying for the WC2010.

This seems to be a departure from the initial aim to replace the CSA with the CSF, something that I supported. Your present water-down objectives sound very commendable but it really will not change anything within the CSA. The CSF has become nothing more than another blind supporter of the CSA. If you are really intent on change, then get your top Executive, travel to Zurich, meet with Blatter and get a road map as to how you can go about change within FIFA bounderies.

You may be interested in reading this:

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080729.wsptethi29/GSStory/GlobeSportsSoccer/home

[TFC07]

Thank you CSA for not jacking up the prices for Jamaica game.

[DontPanic]

GOOD-Put tickets on sale more than 2 weeks before the game AND at a reasonable price.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

If you are really intent on change, then get your top Executive, travel to Zurich, meet with Blatter and get a road map as to how you can go about change within FIFA bounderies.

If you believe that would work you are really daft. The fundamental problem for anyone trying to reform their national federation including governmental organizations is that any radical overhaul has to be approved by what are essentially criminal organizations, FIFA and CONCACAF. It is like going to Hell's Angels headquarters and telling them you don't think your local chapter is being run properly. BTW. I doubt said top executive would even get an audience with Warner let alone Blatter and if they did it would merely be a photo-op to make it appear that they are interested in the issue.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Saviola7

It was almost one year ago that we were ready to draw and quarter the CSA, but now all this talk has just reduced back to murmurs. So what happenend? Did the CSA actually get their act together? Or did we simply decide to focus our efforts elsewhere?

I think there is still much room for improvement, but I think we should give them credit where it's due. On the other hand, some newer Vs might not know where this animosity is coming from.

So, say in the past two years, what have they done right and wrong?

Right:

-Help bring MLS to TO (and possibly a number of other Canadian cities)

-Scheduled a decent amount of friendlies in 2007/08

-Reserved organised supporters sections for CMNT home matches in 2007/08

-Allowed the V's cup to be the trophy of the Canadian Championship

-Set up the Canadian Championship and pushed for a birth into the CCL

-Got CBC to show all matches (at least online)

Wrong:

-Didn't schedule enough friendlies in 2006 (could have got invovled in a number of team's WC prep)

-Didn't schedule enough home friendlies in 2006/07

-Waited 8 months to hire a coach, overuled a hiring of the selection comittee's choice

-Hired a CEO, then dismissed them immediately

-Failed to cooperate with (thus resulting in the resignation of) the former President and CEO

-Failed to turn a profit while still selling out the U20 WC

-Failed to market Costa Rica friendly properly

-Failed to inject fresh blood, fell back on 'old boys club' hiring

On the "RIGHT" ledger, I dont think that they can be credited for Getting CBC to show all matches (at least online). I believe that the deal for MNT matches is still with sportsnet. CBC's interest appears to be with TFC.

--------

On the "Wrong" ledger, I definitely cant say that they "Failed to market Costa Rica friendly properly". I heard so many radio ads in the weeks leading up to the event, that I got sick of them. Sometimes we just have to face the facts, people might not be all that interested in friendlies and/or our MNT ( in the eyes of many )still has something to prove to convince that it has arrived. Even if people knew about it, they may have chosen not to go for a host of other reasons. Then again, maybe 9K fans is good all things considered. How many fans do they draw in Europe for similar games? Finally, the announced attendance at that game was on par or better than what we got in the last round of WCQ.

This is a long standing belief here, when turn out at MNT games is not what we may have wished. People blame lack of promotion. Admittedly, I have bought into this on in the past, but there is now sufficient evidence that it was just an excuse. I can cite several more examples from the past 5 years.

There are 18K tickets reportedly already sold for aug 20, 2008. want to know how much promotion I have seen or hear for that game? " Zippo" Zilch, nada, bubkus.

[Free kick]

I find that on a host of factors, too often, I feel that the CSA are slammed for things that are mostly out of their control and/or have nothing to do with them.

But along the same line, I dont feel that they should be given the credit for some of the things that are mentioned here.

1) How much did they have to do with MLS comming here? Without MLSEL's interest, there is no MLS.

2) Did we ever ask in the past for "Reserved organised supporters sections for CMNT home matches in 2007/08"?. We did and we always got it.

3)" Set up the Canadian Championship and pushed for a birth into the CCL". Was it the CSA or was it the renewed interest on the part of the clubs thats spurred this initiative? We have heard stories here that similar attempted to get the clubs into CCL were made in teh past, but the USl clubs were not interested. Maybe they weren't . and maybe they couldn't find a sponsor for the national championship? maybe you couldn't find a sponsor because you didn't have TFC around showing that you can sell out a stadium of 20K for soccer in canada.

As many of us have repeating ad nauseum, the success of teh agme in this country rests with the clubs ( ie.: private money investing player devlopment)

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

If you believe that would work you are really daft. The fundamental problem for anyone trying to reform their national federation including governmental organizations is that any radical overhaul has to be approved by what are essentially criminal organizations, FIFA and CONCACAF. It is like going to Hell's Angels headquarters and telling them you don't think your local chapter is being run properly. BTW. I doubt said top executive would even get an audience with Warner let alone Blatter and if they did it would merely be a photo-op to make it appear that they are interested in the issue.

So well said!.. It never ceases to amaze me some of the things that I have read on this topic of the CSA in this forum. Such as, Appeally to a higher such as FIFA, MP's, PM the Pope etc...

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

This seems to be a departure from the initial aim to replace the CSA with the CSF, something that I supported. Your present water-down objectives sound very commendable but it really will not change anything within the CSA. The CSF has become nothing more than another blind supporter of the CSA. If you are really intent on change, then get your top Executive, travel to Zurich, meet with Blatter and get a road map as to how you can go about change within FIFA bounderies.

You may be interested in reading this:

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080729.wsptethi29/GSStory/GlobeSportsSoccer/home

I never saw the CSF as an alternative to the CSA and I am not sure they did either, it is a lobby group. And I agree with VPjnr that most of the core issues that got us riled up about the CSA have not changed or gone away, despite some superficial efforts on the part of the organisation to paper over the gaping cracks. Fundamental change is still badly needed and the CSF so far is the only organised group lobbying for change in a constructive manner. I would prefer however that they not maintain quite as low a profile as they have been doing for the past months.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

1) How much did they have to do with MLS comming here? Without MLSEL's interest, there is no MLS.

I think they can be credited as being instrumental in getting the ball rolling to begin with though. MLSE didn't get interested until the CSA contacted them via a third party. Plus while it seems obvious now to get into MLS a lot of people were against the CSA's plan when it first got announced. That's not to say that MLSE don't deserve credit or that the CSA had any influence in convincing them to be interested, but I don't think we can dismiss there role here either.

[Winnipeg Fury]

I honestly wouldn't know if there has been a fundamental change in the CSA infrastructure, but I can say under Peter Montopoli there has been a complete change in attitude within the CSA. Peter made a commitment to me that the CSA would work with the Voyageurs, and it has come a long way via the Voyageurs Cup and the fact that we now have our own sections of the stadium. These are two major items, but there have been other examples in the past few months.

Peter and others within the CSA have told me that the CSA realizes it has screwed up in the past, and that they should have been working with us years ago. Peter had hoped that by using the Voyageurs Cup, it would be seen as something of an olive branch from the CSA to the supporters.

They (John Billingsley, Tanya Colburne, Morgan Quarry, etc....) have busted their asses to work with us, and it has been much more than lip-service.

Lets hope things continue on their present course.

[CanadianTraveller]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

Right now, we are focused on issues that have a strong liklihood of coming to fruition and which we hope will bring about tangible benefit to Canadian soccer in the medium to long term.

Congratulations on your focus and your continued passion, and on your practicality. It's takes great and committed people to make great change.

But the CSA will continue to be the convening body for FIFA-sanctioned events in Canada, and the CSA will continue to be organized around its provincial associations until and unless national-focused programs become more significant than the provincial-focused programs. Which should be in about 75 years, if ever.... Yes, that organization poses significant challenges in placing appropriate focus on national-focused activities, but the only way I see changing that situation in my lifetime is to grow the national programs based upon revenue. That's how it happened at Hockey Canada, and it's how it happens at most multi-discipline foundations. Since I can't do that by asking/begging the CSA to spend more time on national events, I have to do it by convincing about 150,000 people that they want to spend $50 and more to watch a single 90 minute match in 2009 in person, and about 1.5 million people to watch three or more of ten matches in 2009. Combine that with the small-but-committed base of fans (growing quickly in Toronto) and maybe some luck (or even skill and hard work?) in drawing Tier I and Tier II sponsors who need a sports outlet after losing Olympic spots and want in on the ground floor; and you've given those ten xSA directors a reason - a requirement - to spend more focus on national activities.

You have put deeds to words with the purchase of...hundreds? thousands??? of tickets in Toronto and the re-sale of those tickets to marginally-interested people who could become great fans. If that's what the CSF is doing these days, then hats off to the organization. If the CSF still wants to drive major change at the CSA (or supplant the CSA on the national front) then...well, best of luck I guess, but is there more harm than good?

[Keegan]

Maybe one day we can buy out full stadiums right when tickets even go on sale. Put all the money from scarves into that and then sell the tickets to who we want. niiiceeee

[CanadianTraveller]

Don't have to buy the whole stadium, and don't want to lock out every casual fan.

But Sam's Army (which IMHO can teach this group some valuable lessons - pro and con - around a supporters group living in the heart of rec soccer country) does get a section (or 3 or 4 as I understand it) and does sell tickets directly based upon a common understanding of why you want to be in that section, working with the USSF and whatever ticket reseller(s) to make it happen.

At current levels of V's interest (around 500, plus or minus 500, excluding existing club supporter groups) and current ticket prices (a ridiculously low price), you'd only need $10,000. Given the incredible speed of sale for Toronto, and even the rapid adoption for Montreal, you don't even need the V's to have any funds. A credit card with a 25-day due date from statement (AMEX is good for that) is all it takes. I think I've got three cards w/ a $10,000 LOC; I know I have one at $25K. And I know I'm not alone there.

That level of interest is new for 2010 compared to 2006. Lesson learned. The only question is who wants to front the deal, who wants to run the web site and e-mail and handle various payment methods and distribution. Given the great efforts for the scarves, and now for the T-shirts, it appears that there's no shortage of people willing to go the extra mile. Then you can ask Winnipeg Fury and others if it makes sense to pre-purchase and resell them, or if the TM pre-sale approach makes more sense for this group. Pick the best approach, and run with it. Repeat question for club supporters (RPB et. al) and local soccer clubs and groups, who don't necessarily want to sit with the V's.

I'd suggest a V's pre-purchase and re-sale for Edmonton this year as a little pilot project, but the current system through TM combined with the ability to block out up to 2500 seats for the V's with zero harm in the sale of tickets to the public, means that there's really no need. Also difficult to gauge V's interest for Edmonton right now - it won't be 500. Another first-day code (one perhaps a little less public than the Admission approach - Edmonton is a TM venue) should suffice...this year.

[Robert]

Why does the CSA sell the broastcast rights for Canada's World Cup qualifying matches to a network that obviously does not rank soccer as a major attraction for their viewers. Sportsnet is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to sporting networks. 100 Blue Jays games represents the best they have to offer, unless your stoked about watching events like the World Yo-Yo contest. That might satisfy baseball fans in Toronto and YoYo afficionatoes in Vancouver, but what about the rest of Canada's sports-loving viewers? Did Sportsnet give the CSA a few lousy dollars more than other networks offered? The amount of money received for selling these rights should not be the only factor considered when determining which network gets them. The CSA should insist that their showcase product gets broadcast live from coast to coast with whomever the deal is made. How many new fans is soccer going to attract if the results of the 2 to 20 possible World Cup qualifying matches that Canada plays every four years are available on the internet before the match is televised? Only in a CSA run Canada do soccer supporters having to endure this kind of _____!!!

[Richard]

^ Probably because imposing such conditions would result in mainstream broadcasters walking away and us being left with no TV coverage at all other than the niche market specialty channels. Also, broadcasters sign contracts with MLB et al long in advance which commits them to coverage. Soccer games, no matter how important, are typically scheduled at shorter notice. If there is a clash the legally binding contracts take precedence. Until soccer can compete on a level playing field in the Canadian marketplace with these major American sports it will always take second place.