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Basketball Canada = CSA (more or less)


The Beaver

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Leo Rautins has to go.

The lack of a domestic league in Canada's case is a load of BS. Our players are developed in High School and college, the exact same as the US and our players have the exact same opportunities as American players. Personality conflicts between the coach and his players is something that can be addressed pretty easily.

Leo Rautins has never been a head coach or assistant at any level. He got the job simply because he has name recognition. Basketball Canada would've been better off hiring a Division II coach with a proven record than some talking head.

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quote:Originally posted by devioustrevor

Leo Rautins has to go.

The lack of a domestic league in Canada's case is a load of BS. Our players are developed in High School and college, the exact same as the US and our players have the exact same opportunities as American players. Personality conflicts between the coach and his players is something that can be addressed pretty easily.

Leo Rautins has never been a head coach or assistant at any level. He got the job simply because he has name recognition. Basketball Canada would've been better off hiring a Division II coach with a proven record than some talking head.

I agree. Canadians have opportunities that just about everyone else around the world would envy. So what if there isn't a national league. We are just hours away and in the same time zones as the NBA. Then there is NCAA and D-leagues which present no language or cultural barriers to Canadians unlike kids from every other country. What the hell difference would it do to have a national league when, judging from TV ratings for basketball, such a league would definitely not be financially sustainable. I dont know of any interest in seeing pro basketball in Canada's second largest city and I cannot imagine any interest from fans anywhere else outside of a place like Victoria perhaps.

They should never have fired Triano who was liked by Nash. And right now, that criteria (being liked by Nash) should just about be the only one you need right now to coach Canada. .

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Tell ya what though, an 8-10 team summer league with a small cap that caters to the recently graduated CDN Univ. and NCAA players would serve as a bridge to Europe or D-League. It would definitely help build depth in the program.

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There can be no National League. A few years ago there was an organized Canadian Basketball League that would've been based entirely out of Southern Ontario and would've been played out of College Gymnasiums from Windsor to Ottawa (with locations like Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Kingston, Barrie and Toronto's satellite communities).

They had a number of players committed but a few weeks before the league was to tip off it folded when the financial backers pulled out. It was to be run as a summer league much like jpg75's suggested league.

Needless to say any league would have to be run as a Southern Ontario bus league. Frankly, if Canada is to ever get a professional Soccer League I believe it will have to start the same way, as a bus league based in Southern Ontario until it can grow into something a little larger in scale.

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quote:Originally posted by devioustrevor

Leo Rautins has to go.

The lack of a domestic league in Canada's case is a load of BS. Our players are developed in High School and college, the exact same as the US and our players have the exact same opportunities as American players.

This is completely at odds with all of the evidence. The top US College players can not compete with their European and South American counterparts. Period. The D League is not anywhere near equivalent to the top Euro Leagues. There was a time when Canada could compete with any nation in the world other than The US, Russia and Yugoslavia. Now, Canada has been eclispsed permanently by several nations where basketball does not hold anything close to the same sporting stature as it does here. The difference: Pro Leagues with domestic content requirements. Which allow players to make a living in Basketball after the age of 22.

30 years ago the US college all star team was a "lock" to win Olympic Gold, now their absolute best NBA players are only the "favourites" and not a "lock".

That there is any question whatsoever, in basketball, in soccer, in any sport that can be professionalized, that the single best way to improve the quality of players is a domestic professional league with a restricted foreign presence absolutely boggles the mind. It has been demonstrated over and over again.

Is a League viable? Likely not. But the evidence that not having a league is detrimental is overwhelming.

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Is baseball the exeption that makes the rule as far as National Pro Leagues?

There's a strong presence of Canadians in Pro baseball. No National League. Every year 25-35 Canadians are drafted by MLB. Every big city, small town and village has a baseball team at some level, Pro, Semi-Pro, Senior, Intermediate, Junior, Midget.............

What gives?

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That's still ignoring the fact that if you play through high-school in Canada and standout, you can get into the NCAA. You play there and stand out again, you can play pro in the NBA. The path is pretty clear.

When it comes to Basketball NCAA is only amateur in name. All the top teams pay their players under the table. On top of that the schools pull all the strings necessary to make sure you have the easiest and work free classes, the vast majority of your time is still spent playing the sport. A friend of mine who works for a player agency these days and used to play D3 ball (he was even paid under the table, for playing D3 as a below average player on the team!) has told me it's no suprise to meet some of these NBA guys and find out they can't read or have minimal literacy skills, well below that of a College Student.

I agree a professional league would improve things vastly but that's not the only solution to improvig quality.

The problem, is that we have a poor development pyrmid for the sport in Canada and terrible minimal coaching standards. Their HS athletic system is over the top and very competitive, meanwhile ours is underfunded and lathargic. That funnels down all the way to the lower levels as well. If the association was organized and professional they would go a long way towards soliving their problems.

Honestly, this can't be the last sport in Canada with a similar problem to ours. What would be really nice is if somebody could mobilize a bunch of these groups and push for athletics in Canada to be reformed through a loby group.

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^ Exactly, it's not a Soccer or Basketball problem in Canada, it's a SPORT problem. We are probably spending the least amount of $$ per capita for sport among the G8 countries. If Sport Canada had their budget doubled we'd probably be laughing all the way to the podium in many different sports and disciplines.

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quote:Originally posted by Gordon

This is completely at odds with all of the evidence. The top US College players can not compete with their European and South American counterparts. Period. The D League is not anywhere near equivalent to the top Euro Leagues. There was a time when Canada could compete with any nation in the world other than The US, Russia and Yugoslavia. Now, Canada has been eclispsed permanently by several nations where basketball does not hold anything close to the same sporting stature as it does here. The difference: Pro Leagues with domestic content requirements. Which allow players to make a living in Basketball after the age of 22.

30 years ago the US college all star team was a "lock" to win Olympic Gold, now their absolute best NBA players are only the "favourites" and not a "lock".

That there is any question whatsoever, in basketball, in soccer, in any sport that can be professionalized, that the single best way to improve the quality of players is a domestic professional league with a restricted foreign presence absolutely boggles the mind. It has been demonstrated over and over again.

Is a League viable? Likely not. But the evidence that not having a league is detrimental is overwhelming.

But we do have a profession league. Its called the NBA. Is there anything that restricts canadians from accessing the NBA that is any different than any American kids? Nope. And americans are not affected by the fact that there is no quota. The only difference between Canada and the US; and canada and the rest of the world is the developmental structures. The USA has well supported and very strong High school/ college programs with good coaching whereas canada has weak coaching in high schools ( and colleges )and underfunded programs that often play in empty gyms. The rest of the world, I presume, has strong development programs that are funded and supported by the clubs ( ie.:private enterprise). That is something that would never happen here if you were to develop a pro league here unless there is a lot money behind it.

See, its not the pro leagues that produces talent, its the developmental structures. There is no sense in having such leagues if there is no talant to stock the clubs with. And furthermore what's the point if the talent can easily flow south of the border.

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Free Kick, thanks for pointing out the lack of coaching at the HS level. People keep mentioning High School as a way to 'develop', yet unless you play at a top school in Canada the coaching is not very good. Few coaches are truly qualified as per Basketball Canada/Ontario guidelines (for Senior Boys HS it is supposed to be full NCCP Level 2 for Basketball), yet in many schools it is the teacher who wants to run the program or is willing to run the program, not necessarily qualified to run the program. The support from the schools (not the 'league' or 'association for club teams) is minimal at best in most cases, and you have to be financially self-sufficient. How are you supposed to develop kids with no/minimal budget and no support from those who control so much (practice time, budget, regulations).

Massive, watching the game vs. the Croatians on Friday before work I couldn't help but wonder what the fast break would be like with Steve Nash, dumping it in to Magloire... the Canadian's were stifled by an intense defensive pressure and were outcoached by the Croats (as they were vs. South Korea, but pulled it out). Canada's ball pressure against the Croats was broken by a simple press break that my 7/8 girls team uses.

What I want to know is who is going to step up and get people on board with the program?

Why was the first Men's team game in how many years only recently played?

Why are they not looking to our best and brightest to lead the team (the US has Duke's coach, widely considered one of the greatest coaches of all time at any level... we have the backup shooting guard's dad). Look at the coach from Carleton and Ottawa U, two guys who are reinventing and reinvigorating basketball in Ottawa. Put a true "coach" in charge.

Dump the earing.

As you were,

PEACH

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if you think the coaching problem in canadian soccer is bad, the problems in Basketball are 10x worse.

Canada Basketball is actually in a worse position that Canadian Soccer. the CSA cries poor alot but Canada Basketball would love to have the CSA's financial resources (as would almost any National Sport Organization).

Canada Basketball has a long way to go. We've got talented players in this country, especially in the main hoops markets, but a lot has to change before you start to see Canada competing internationally.

I'd love to see a CSL equivalent summer league, with a couple of amateur teams for NCAA players to join without ruining their eligibility, but that's going to take money. MLSE should bankroll it but, of course, its MLSE so it won't happen.

and yes, as stated above, this team needs a real coach. When you only get your players for 6 weeks per year, you need someone who actually does this for a living. Leo has a role to play with Canada Basketball but its not head coach.

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VPjr is bang on with the funding comment. The CSA has it easy compared to Basketball Canada when you consider the disparity in registered players each organization has to draw funds from. Not to mention, there is nationwide resistance to paying registration fees and due to the fact many basketball players choose only to play school and/or AAU basketball where registration is not required. And if you think flying economy is a big deal for the national soccer team then try being a 6'11" basketball player.

.

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Guest Jeffery S.

I don't think the lack of a league has any real effect, since as has been mentioned, Canadians have other options. You can't play in Canada, you can play in lower tier US and in competitive leagues in 6-8 European countries, where the best teams are better than the worst in the NBA. What is the difference between a Canadian playing in Greece and most of the silver medal winners in the last World Championship playing in Greece? You can go to Spain, France, Italy, Greece, Serbia or Croatia, Turkey, Israel, Lithuania. Play pro, make money, and develop perfectly well. As many do.

Coaching has to be a factor, as is team cohesion and mentality. Since we got beat too easily and by too much, we were below standard.

Canada does not have a competitive sports mentality, we have a disgusting subservience in our press to American concerns, and we don't believe in technical excellence in coaching, or if we do we are not willing to pay for it. Sports Canada is predicting what, 12 medals for Beijing? It should be double that.

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quote:Originally posted by Keegan

The problem with Canada basketball is that....

Basketball is a **** sport we should concentrate our funds on Soccer haha.

But seriously... never met a fan of Canada basketball in my life or basketball for that matter lol

Yup a **** sport that just happens to be the 2nd biggest team sport in the world. Remember that next time a soccer hater tries to bash the world's game.

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A huge topic in Ontario at the grassroots level is the FIBA vs. US High School rules, which apparently the rest of the country can figure out. Basketball Canada wants all provinces to committ to FIBA rules, yet Ontario high school will not (OFSAA) and as a result the provincial organization in Ontario has to play a hybrid FIBA/NCAA rules, as most schools will not have the required trapezoid key, shot clocks installed, etc. While cost is an issue, the issue it can be done.

Basketball Canada is unable to even get the players in the country to play with the same RULES. When certain states in the US did not adopt some of the proposed changes to the HFHSA rules at the HS level, they LOST THEIR VOTE at the national level. Many states got in line. Unfortunately, the big elephant in the middle of the country has too much power in this regard, and, in a way, is holding back the development of Canada Basketball.

Opportunity has been missed.

Back to the topic, DUMP THE EARING. (Seriously, which national team coach has a big stud in his ear...)

PEACH

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quote:Originally posted by Keegan

The problem with Canada basketball is that....

Basketball is a **** sport we should concentrate our funds on Soccer haha.

But seriously... never met a fan of Canada basketball in my life or basketball for that matter lol

if you are the the Canada v Jamaica game, let me know where you are sitting so I can introduce myself. then you will have met a Canadian basketball fan. I even bought tickets to that series of exhibition matches earlier this month at Ricoh coliseum.

I love the sport. In fact, Soccer and Basketball are the only 2 team sports that truly love. Everything else is rubbish to me.

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I would guarantee that there are at least 2X more people who know more about Canada basketball compared to Canada soccer.

Also if you've never met a basketball fan in your life...does your town have like 3 people living in it?

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