New security causing problems at Swangard

[Blue and White Army]

Well, we might as well be back on vacation in Montreal, because we got the same over-zealous treatment from security here at Swangard tonight.

Limited Edition Security are new at Swangard, starting this season (2008). And one particular Dudley Do-Right felt obliged to "straighten out" the Southside for the last five minutes (plus stoppage) of the Vancouver-Carolina match.

This is simple. The club set up an adult section, known as the Southside. The club pays the security to keep the status quo. But one particular individual decided to take it upon himself to stamp out what little atmosphere we are able to create at the mom-n-pop venue that is Swangard.

If the club decided to end the Southsiders experience... well, we didn't get the memo. Or, if it's same-as-usual, then was why this one security person so adamant in his moral fight against the Southsiders experience? And if it's the latter, and we have a new security company this year, why wasn't the security company clearly told about what the Southside is all about?

We went through several years of growing gains with Genesis Security... but once their employees understood what the Southside was all about, it was fine.

Now, Limited Edition Security gallops onto the scene, and wants to save the day.

The Southside isn't a library, and the Southside isn't a funeral. It was set up to create ATMOSPHERE. If soccer moms don't like it, then they can kindly sit in their proper, designated seat as per their match ticket. The only people who hold tickets for the Southside are Southsiders with season tickets. But does the security care?

This noobie's argument was that Swangard is a public park. Errrr, no, it's a municipally-owned stadium, rented out to a private company for a private (and ticketed) event.

Bah, I've had enough for one night.

[piltdownman]

Hey B&W, since I missed the match due to work, what happened?

[Mpenza]

Imagine.... FIFTH game of the season, we were fighting with security telling them the lower part of 114 is a standing section.

Some gal from the Impact who was passing by at half time had to straighten things out, cause they wouldn't believe us and didn't want to make the call to check if we were right...

[Footy]

Really enough is enough this the second or third time this season someone from that rent a ego security group has asked us to "watch our language" seriously do the folks that run the club/security really wants to become another part of the bleachers and just clap when we are prompted and sing when Loonie bird holds up his signs... BS ... If the next rent a cop asks the SS to watch our language I'm going to lose it .... if there are parents with their kids in a area that they did not buy tickets for not liking what they here then "sit in your assigned seat". I hate to admit but we had a better atmosphere when it was a beer garden and controlled access none of this BS happend then and the crowds were all ADULTS.

If the security would actualy do the job and look at who and what is being tossed on the pitch then they would see its usually the kids that are throwing stuff towards the net ... I have seen it time and time again.

I think the Caps need to rethink their stategy here ... I can live with the beer cup toss but to ask us now to clean up are chants .... seriously tell the rent a cops to inform soccer mom that she is in a mainly adult area and she should sit in her assigned seat chances are the tickets they got are free thats why they are at the game. Marketing gurus at the Caps office I have season tickets as do many of the southsiders I buy merchandise I wear my kit to every match and support your sponsors dont screw me over respect the fact if you want atmosphere down the road you need people like the southsiders to lead and grow.

[Daniel]

How about not responding to "Please tone down the language"?

In my experience, they're not going to lay a hand on you if you're ignoring them (don't even look at them).

[Richard]

As an ex-military man myself there is little I haven't heard or even used myselfon occasion when it comes to 'colourful' language but why deliberately set out to cause a ruckus and upset people. Why is crude language so essential to expressing yourself, why can you apparently not enjoy yourself without it? Can of worms I know but I would genuinely like to try and understand the mindest.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

As an ex-military man myself there is little I haven't heard or even used myselfon occasion when it comes to 'colourful' language but why deliberately set out to cause a ruckus and upset people. Why is crude language so essential to expressing yourself, why can you apparently not enjoy yourself without it? Can of worms I know but I would genuinely like to try and understand the mindest.

If you have to ask, then you really don't get it.

No one is deliberately causing a ruckus to upset people, in the Southside or in any supporters section. I'm not even sure where you come up with these ideas.

[Footy]

Richard I think if you heard the chants we are looking at maybe 2 or 3 chants that might have a word that someone might find issue with but then again someone might not like the goal kick chant of you fat bastard .... I mean this is silly for how many years we have been chanting and trying to throw off the other team we now get these idiots trying to control what we say !!

[Richard]

I have heard the chants and frankly the language does not bother me personally, I take it from whence it comes. But why do you persist with behaviours that you know really bother people, that's just being obnoxious and anti-social and reinforces the stereotype of the soccer yob? Is that really what you want? It also does not win you friends or influence people the way you might wish, quite the contrary.

I might add that the hardcore Southsiders seemed low on numbers and somewhat more subdued on Sunday night relative to what I have come to expect. Surely they are not as fickle as the mom and pop supporters they so revile.

[Johnnie Monster]

The point that has not been raised here is that the club sent two of their officials (I believe it was Rick Ramsbottom and Rachel Lewis?) to meet with the Southsiders about four years back to discuss issues relating to game day atmosphere, and the occasional complaints arising re: foul language.

At that time the club agreed that the Southside would no longer be officially categorized as a general admission seating area. Instead, the club would categorize it as a BEER GARDEN with special ticketing status for the Southsiders only</u>.

Southsiders with season tickets are the only fans whose tickets actually say "Southside" on them as their seat number. All other guests have an assigned seat number for the western grandstand or eastern bleachers. This was done SPECIFICALLY to ensure that our rights to carry on as we do would trump those of any guest in the beer garden with complaints about the language.

In essence, if certain guests found the Southsiders offensive, they could be shown what a Southside ticket looks like in comparison to their own, and they would be encouraged to return to the assigned seat number that they actually paid for.

[Johnnie Monster]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

But why do you persist with behaviours that you know really bother people, that's just being obnoxious and anti-social and reinforces the stereotype of the soccer yob?

I would ask this same question of the security guard who persisted in engaging several Southsiders about their language after each of them made it abundantly clear time and time again that they would not be censoring themselves at his say so.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mickey mouse training some of these guys receive, and the most basic concept they should be learning is that they are there to monitor and assist public safety, not to needlessly perpetuate confrontations about moral behavior.

No doubt the same guy will be watching me like a hawk at the next game for having given him holy hell for his nonsense.

This whole business reminds me of the crap my friend went through a few years back at a Caps game (back then it was Genesis Security).

At the time, quite a few fans were wearing blue / white bandannas on their heads. There were no less than 15 of them in the Southside that day, but they singled my buddy out and told him to leave after accusing him of being a "gang member." He was not drunk, not swearing, and not bothering anyone. Best I can figure, they singled him out merely for being 6'4.

The priceless part about all of this was that the security guard who was accusing him of being a gang member was actually wearing one of those dark collar-length gangsta-rags that wrap around your head and hang down the back of your neck like a foreign legion hat.

Anyway, needless to say, security at the Swan has been a JOKE. I could type ridiculous true stories on this subject for hours.

[Richard]

The rent-a-cops don't make up their own rules as they go along, they are briefed about requirements by the club through their supervisors. Doesn't mean there are not some security company employees who are not very good at conveying or enforcing said rules but they don't make it all up as they go along. I would not be at all surprised if the briefing from the club included an instruction to curb foul language from the southsiders. It is also pretty standard for police, military and other security folk when dealing with an 'unruly' crowd to pick on one person, preferably an apparent leader or instigator and deal with him/her as an example to the rest. In some parts of the world they'd just shoot you.

"...the security guard who persisted in engaging several Southsiders about their language after each of them made it abundantly clear time and time again that they would not be censoring themselves at his say so." Bucking the authority of the security person who is acting on behalf of the Whitecaps over the use of foul and abusive language is not a very mature attitude frankly. I assume you and your fellow southsiders are not overgrown rebellious adolescents, or are you? Time to behave like a responsible grownups.

Let me again ask the question I asked earlier in this thread, why is it so important for you to use this language in public when it clearly offends people and is obviously against the express wishes of the Whitecaps who are your hosts when you attend games? It is one thing to curse and mutter to yourself under your breath, quite another to yell it out in public.

[Daniel]

Richard, you suck. Ad hominem.

[CoachRich]

Just because you pay to watch a match doesn't mean you can do what you want as you are part of the game. Just as a fan along the sidelines at a rec match who doesn't apply Fair Play & etc you can be asked to leave.

[CanadasBest]

Really in the end it has to come down to balance and common sense. Set up a kid friendly section somewhere in the stadium where you place the hard-ass morally righteous security to crack down on anyone that says poo. Stick all the easily offended folks there.

Fill the southside and the majority of the sections with loud, cheering, abnoxious, drunk, young people safely having a good time and let them go at it.

I'm not talking about anarchy and letting the supporters groups run rampant. Let them do their own thing. Let them police themselves, but above all let them have a good time. All successful sports franchises follow that philosophy.

[Johnnie Monster]

Richard and CoachRich:

Read this and kindly bugger off:

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/

You're also both missing the point. The Southside section was re-categorized by the club for the specific purpose of allowing us to be annoying and obnoxious. For the past four years the Caps have done more than tolerate the Southside atmosphere, they have endorsed</u> it, accommodated</u> it and even promoted</u> it in marketing.

In the past four years, there has been nary a scuffle, no obscene flags or signs, and no pitch invasions. If there has been a change in heart at the front office and the verbal antics are no longer tolerable, they should have the balls to tell us in advance BEFORE we buy season tickets in the section that they themselves have told us it would present no problem.

The Southside is a BEER GARDEN. Parents can surely find a better place for their kids to sit and protect their delicate ears.

[Richard]

The charter gives rights, it does not grant license to behave anywhere anyhow you please with impugnity. It also gives CoachRich and me and others exactly the same rights behind which you are hiding so how about you bugger off instead.

I am not arguing the merits of the actions of the security guards or the standards set by the Whitecaps. For those who have missed it completely, my argument deals with respecting the wishes of your hosts, respect for authority (which the club exercises through its security contractor) and courtesy and consideration towards those around you.

If you are unhappy with the way you are being treated at games don't just yell obscenities and mouth off here, call a meeting of likeminded people, elect representatives and request a meeting with the Whitecaps front office to discuss your concerns and grievances then be courteous during the meeting. That's the civilised, mature and responsible way to deal with the situation but I understand it may be asking way too much of some people here based on their posts.

[Blue and White Army]

Well said, J-Mo. I get the impression that Richard doesn't appreciate the full extent and history of the Southside.

Richard, as to your question, the majority of our chants do not contain swearing. A very small number of them do.

Many people across the world use football as a way to unwind from the drudgery of nine-to-five life, and that includes having a few beers and letting loose. Why should the Whitecaps be any different? And given that the Whitecaps have set up the Southside to be an adult-only section for fostering European- or South American-style support (thus the Whitecaps differentiating themselves from the bland game-day experience of the Canucks and BC Lions), why would you or anyone else in another section at Swangard care what we get up to? Shouldn't you all be watching the match? Or are our antics so enthralling that you would rather watch us than the game?

As for people supposedly complaining and being offended by our behaviour, the security person under discussion here made no mention of any complaints being made against us. In fact, since he came over on his moral crusade in the 85th minute, any offended parties would have moved away long before then. It is my assumption that this bored fellow was taking it upon himself to have a go at us. I guess his job is rather dull, so I suppose I can't blame him in his attempts to relieve his sheer and utter boredom.

I find LoonieBird offensive. I find all the crap they give out at the gates (and the fact that 95% of it all ends up in a garbage bin within 90 minutes) offensive. I find the bouncey castle within the grounds to be offensive. I find the mascot-led attempts to get the SUV crowd in the grandstand to actually sing rather offensive. I find the fact that the matchday director finds the need to constantly distract the fans (especially children) from the actual match at hand to be offensive. I find a great deal of what goes on at Swangard to be offensive. But, ultimately, I suck it up and get on with my life.

I suggest the prawn sandwich brigade do the same.

[ag futbol]

quote:Originally posted by CoachRich

Just because you pay to watch a match doesn't mean you can do what you want as you are part of the game. Just as a fan along the sidelines at a rec match who doesn't apply Fair Play & etc you can be asked to leave.

Ya that's been a great forumla for drawning in the fans to the pro game.

Go ask the family marketing crowd in soccer how their cash flow is feeling lately. Short of having spice boy show up to the park every week it doesn't pay the bills.

[Johnnie Monster]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

The charter gives rights, it does not grant license to behave anywhere anyhow you please with impugnity.

It most certainly does, given that I am not breaking any laws or endangering the public. Sad that you don't appreciate the freedoms available to you.

Whether you approve or disapprove of my conduct or my support for my club is of no bloody interest or consequence to me. I'm quite confident I'm having much more fun alongside plenty of longtime pals, game in and game out, than you ever will.

Worth noting I've yet to encounter a single person on here who's even met you. In lieu of any real evidence that you actually DO attend some of these matches, I'm forced to imagine you lurking about the upper corners of the grandstand wearing a Phantom of the Opera mask and a Tiffany Milbrett jersey on.

Or maybe...

[Richard]

^ If you're not breaking the law or endangering other people then why do you need to quote your charter rights which definitely does NOT grant licence to behave as you please, indeed it protects me from having to tolerate people like you behaving like that?

I have no problem with using football to unwind from the daily grind, it is a game played for entertainment after all, but does that automatically mean yelling foul and abusive language at all and sundry, behaving like a drunken yob and spurning authority? I think not. But as has been pointed out, for the most part very few people including me have a problem with the Southsiders who without doubt add colour and atmosphere to the game. My argument here is with those who yell gratuitous profanity and refuse to acknowledge authority, indeed boast publicly about same.

As for Blue and White Army who apparently finds almost everything to do with game day offensive, you must have a really unpleasant two hours at Swangard on match nights. Why not stay home and watch TV instead, save the price of admission and all the aggro?

And if you haven't yet figured out who I am or recognised me at Whitecaps games where I am very much in evidence - I hardly hide my identity here - then you must be living in a cave.

[Blue and White Army]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

I have no problem with using football to unwind from the daily grind, it is a game played for entertainment after all, but does that automatically mean yelling foul and abusive language at all and sundry, behaving like a drunken yob and spurning authority?

Who is "yelling foul and abusive language at all and sundry</u>"? Exaggeration and hyperbole aren't helping your argument, Richard. We wind up the goalkeepers, and the occasional outfield player. It's not as if we're running through the grandstand aisles yelling out expletives at the prawn sandwich brigade.

quote:Originally posted by Richard

My argument here is with those who yell gratuitous profanity...

Another ridiculous exaggeration? Just who is yelling out "gratuitous profanity"?

quote:Originally posted by Richard

...and refuse to acknowledge authority, indeed boast publicly about same.

This is our point, Richard. The "authority" here is the Whitecaps organization, who have intentionally set up the Southside to be a bona fide adult section, with drinking, cursing, etc. The security should be an extention of that authority, but clearly they do not understand what they are expected to enforce. The security are contradicting the ultimate authority here - the club. THAT is our primary beef.

quote:Originally posted by Richard

As for Blue and White Army who apparently finds almost everything to do with game day offensive, you must have a really unpleasant two hours at Swangard on match nights. Why not stay home and watch TV instead, save the price of admission and all the aggro?

I will admit, a lot of it does get on my tits. 99% of soccer fans here in Vancouver (and in Montreal, and formerly in Toronto) do exactly as you say - stay home and avoid the aggro. They would rather spend their hard-earned money on Setanta, GolTV, etc, than pay to attend the babysitting service that we experience at USL matches.

I, however, would rather be a part of the solution than part of the problem. And thus, I will attend matches at my local club, and I will voice my opinion as to how things should be run - even if I am in the minority. Soccer snobs will scoff at me for attending USL - I do not care. Security and soccer moms will harass me for trying to create an atmosphere - I do not care.

When the soccer moms fly out to support the Whitecaps in Montreal, Toronto, and other CONCACAF countries, then I will care what they have to say.

I'll say this - the security are just trying to do their job, but clearly they're ignorant about the Southside and the overall "culture" at Swangard. Perhaps that is more the fault of the club for not briefing them.

It is also the fault of the club for not fencing off the Southside to the underaged and the easily offended. There should be signs clearly marking the Southside as an adult-only section. This would save both the Southsiders and the easily offended a great deal of grief.

[youllneverwalkalone]

This thread hijack is hilarious. The funniest part is Rich having a go at literally the nicest Voyageurs. Devon (BWA), Nazz (VF) and Brett have literally never so much as passively insulted anyone on this board. I think Rich was even complimented for his photos or web site or something.

I'm not so charitable, old pal. Because unlike these guys, you are nothing but a c-unt to some of the nicest people I know. So before your favourite photo comes out and you go crying to mods, let's put our cards on the table:

Let's talk about being gracious and respectful to your hosts you dumb-ass c-unt of a troll. Where are you? The Voyageurs: Canada Soccer Supporters. Read the f-ucking web site title you ignorant twat. This is our place. The guys who go to the matches, and wear the scarves and sing the songs. It is completely analogous to your argument about respecting the wishes of the Whitecaps. No-one who calls themselves a Voyageur give a f-uck about the foul language at a football match. Who are you to come to our board and tell us how to behave, you dumb f-cuk wit? If you want people to agree with you and your values, do not join a group that completely disagrees with all of your stances on all sense and sensibilities! How goddamn f-cuking obvious is that!!!

You're nothing but a troll, and I don't give a f-cuk how many photos you take or web sites you make. This is the wrong place for you and you're not welcome here. You're not a Voyageur, you've never stood with us at one match, sang one song, cheered one goal, posted sweet f-cuking anything about a player, a formation, a coach or a call.

You contribute nothing to this board, and seek nothing but to affirm your own world view by winding up us yobs. And if you think I won't pipe up and call you a dumb c-unt everytime you post from now to eternity (which ain't long for you, sorry old bastard) think again. It's on. Follow your own advice and f-uck off and die already.

YNWA

[Mpenza]

This argument comes back every 3 days : read the title, look at the logo, blaaablablaaaah.

I read the title, I look at the logo and what I see is Canadian Soccer Supporters. Not Canada's National Team supporters. Canadian Soccer Supporters.

Whitecaps are a big part of Canadian Soccer. Richard may suck, and I may disagree with just about everything he said in this thread, but the fact remains that, by taking pictures at Whitecaps games, he supports Canadian Soccer... which makes him a Canadian Soccer Supporter.

So before you come crying about people not respecting the values of the V's, not standing and singing for Canada, I suggest you send a message to the people who started this website and ask them to change the logo to better reflect your own view of this forum. Maybe they'll tell you to f+ck off, you never know.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

This argument comes back every 3 days : read the title, look at the logo, blaaablablaaaah.

Maybe the same words, but very different argument. You might not be Canadian soccer supporter, but I don't think you're a troll. I don't believe you look down on the behavior of the vast majority of people who post on this board -or at least you don't say so at every opportunity. I believe you understand that people want to go to a football match and enjoy the atmosphere, not clapping ducks.

And I will start a "Ban Richard" thread. It's already in the works. He's a troll, no different than Soccerbeast, Wildguy, etc, etc. He posts for the sole purpose of winding people up. And taking photos does not make you a supporter. It makes you a wanker with a camera. That's it.

Anyway, don't the Ultras have a board where you can chat about the Kompany you'd prefer to keep.