Reggae Boyz hit new low

[kevlar]

quote:Originally posted by VoxPopuliCosmicum

I accept your apology.[:X]

Anyone else?

Me fail English? Thats unpossible.

[devioustrevor]

quote:Originally posted by kevlar

Me fail English? Thats unpossible.

I broke my wookie

[Soju]

Hello patois speakers. I understand what you're getting at. I'm all for revising the written English language to bring it closer to the evolution of spoken English. Why not? Korea did it successfully by replacing its written language system so there is precedent. Webster's dictionary was slowly making changes in that direction but were stopped by fundamentalists (hence changes to words like color). If you guys are writing how you speak and patois speakers can understand the written form that's good. Seems very practical. Trouble is Jamaicans on this board using it are just being silly. We don't speak like you, so if your written language follows your spoken language, we can't read what you're writing. This leads to frustration which leads to some posters insulting the language itself. The result would be the same if Jamaica had an upcoming game with Burma and I went on the Reggae Boyz board typing Burmese with *just* enough patois in it to frustrate the hell out of people. If our common language is English lets use that together to avoid more misunderstandings. Fair enough?

[Joe MacCarthy]

Ok, here's my language pet peeve. Why can't 99.5 percent of people on the Internet spell the word lose. ie Jamaica will lose the game not Jamaica will loose the game.

My favourite malapropism (I've seen this twice here at Vs)

pre madonna (intending to mean prima donna)

I suppose it could be used in this context.

A-Rod had a wife before his present girlfiend. She was a pre madonna. []

[Whither Canada]

Now that the threadjack is complete, here's one of my newest pet peeves.

I keep hearing of upcoming games being described as one team "verse" another, e.g. "Canada verse Jamaica".

It's not "verse", it's "versus". Canada versus Jamaica.

And as that's a latin word, it's been that way since Roman times.

You're welcome.

[RS]

"I could care less."

Oh really? So you are saying that it's possible for you to care less? If so, what's the ******* point of bringing it up?

(I also hate the childish auto censor on this board. Are we soccer supporters, or kindergarten students?)

[Keegan]

It's my opinion that speaking like this:

yuu kno dat wii iz gun beet dem jah boyz on da 20... NUH BUS SHOTZ

is basically showing that you are retarded and if you can't see the difference between typing like that and typing like most users do on this board (with minor grammar mistakes as others have brought up) then you are also retarded.

I HIGHLY DOUBT that Jamaican teachers are teaching kids in school to write like that, so why type like that? Actually I KNOW THAT because I have Jamaican friends who don't write in that excuse for slang language Patois BUT do speak like that because it is in their accent!

[gardencity]

after much analysis with my people we have come to an agreement that cindy lauper was pre madonna.

[gardencity]

and in terms of verse versus versus, throw in an iambic pentameter and a snappy chorus and we might be on to (not onto) a new chant or hit single.

[Juby]

quote:Originally posted by Keegan

It's my opinion that speaking like this:

yuu kno dat wii iz gun beet dem jah boyz on da 20... NUH BUS SHOTZ

is basically showing that you are retarded and if you can't see the difference between typing like that and typing like most users do on this board (with minor grammar mistakes as others have brought up) then you are also retarded.

I HIGHLY DOUBT that Jamaican teachers are teaching kids in school to write like that, so why type like that? Actually I KNOW THAT because I have Jamaican friends who don't write in that excuse for slang language Patois BUT do speak like that because it is in their accent!

actually, in the last ten years, Patois has begun to be taught at some schools in Jamaica because some of the poorer kids would just drop out because going to school was literally like learning a new a language. Of course many jamaicans have learned and adapted to our english but a great deal have been left behind for pretty much no other reason then the way they speak. The elite in jamaica used to look down on patois and just lately it's been getting legitimacy from public sector.

Honestly though, English people don't even speak the same english they did 150 years ago. Canadian english is different itself. SO who the great are you guys to go around the world telling people how to talk? Like how would you feel if a british person came and started scoffing at how bastardized by america your english is because you say lieutenant like it's 'leautenant' and not the correct 'leftenant' which is how the british say it. You'd probably think, why's this guy care, or who gives a ****, or I'll say it however the great i want. Not 'gee wilikers, I should change the way I speak to streamline, who cares about local linguistic culture'

[Keegan]

Juby you don't get the point!

I understand how they speak, I respect it. But just don't type like that because no one can understand wtf you are typing. Don't type to give the image of an accent because it is ignorant and I don't know what they are trying to prove.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Joe MacCarthy

Ok, here's my language pet peeve. Why can't 99.5 percent of people on the Internet spell the word lose. ie Jamaica will lose the game not Jamaica will loose the game.

My favourite malapropism (I've seen this twice here at Vs)

pre madonna (intending to mean prima donna)

I suppose it could be used in this context.

A-Rod had a wife before his present girlfiend. She was a pre madonna. []

As long as we are taking about proper usage..

No one. IT'S TWO WORDS.

Your = possession; You're = You are.

Ok, I'm done...Carry on...

[strobe_z]

noone knows how to spell "no one"... I HATE that one.

And, while we're at it... I'm afraid of nuclear weapons, but nuculer weapons give me no pause...

[Kibby]

quote:Originally posted by Juby

Honestly though, English people don't even speak the same english they did 150 years ago. Canadian english is different itself. SO who the great are you guys to go around the world telling people how to talk? Like how would you feel if a british person came and started scoffing at how bastardized by america your english is because you say lieutenant like it's 'leautenant' and not the correct 'leftenant' which is how the british say it. You'd probably think, why's this guy care, or who gives a ****, or I'll say it however the great i want. Not 'gee wilikers, I should change the way I speak to streamline, who cares about local linguistic culture'

Actually I do say 'leftenant' instead of 'lootenant', but you're right most say loo.

[Whither Canada]

quote:Originally posted by Juby

actually, in the last ten years, Patois has begun to be taught at some schools in Jamaica because some of the poorer kids would just drop out because going to school was literally like learning a new a language. Of course many jamaicans have learned and adapted to our english but a great deal have been left behind for pretty much no other reason then the way they speak. The elite in jamaica used to look down on patois and just lately it's been getting legitimacy from public sector.

So tell me what's going to happen to those same kids when the time comes for them to contact someone outside of Jamaica or the Jamaican expat community? What language will they be communicating in?

How are they any better off learning in Patois?

[Juby]

quote:Originally posted by Keegan

Juby you don't get the point!

I understand how they speak, I respect it. But just don't type like that because no one can understand wtf you are typing. Don't type to give the image of an accent because it is ignorant and I don't know what they are trying to prove.

I don't think you get my point that when they learn to write english the same as we do, they are literally learning a different language (well dialect) when they learn to write like us, The patois way is just those who were left to there own devices who will obviously type as they speak. I type like I speak, just maybe a little more thought out cuase of the nature of writting. Now if were talking a technical document (edit: meant to be used outside of Jamaica too) for how to say: Fix a refridgerator, maybe some streamlined english is necessary, but if your on a forum, talking about your team, are you going to type like a robot? No, your gonna talk the way that makes the most sense to you. I couldn't imagine thinking 'Wa Gwan' but then typing 'whats going on' like it's completely natural.

[Soju]

quote:Originally posted by Keegan

Juby you don't get the point!

I understand how they speak, I respect it. But just don't type like that because no one can understand wtf you are typing. Don't type to give the image of an accent because it is ignorant and I don't know what they are trying to prove.

For the love of god they're typing another language</u>. Written language has to mirror spoken language or it's useless. Of course you can't understand wtf they are typing you are not Jamaican and do not speak or read Patois. The issue is that they are using a foreign language on an English board, not that they can't spell English properly or are trying to prove things. This doesn't make sense yet? Are posters high when they come here? Am I really explaining this again? Christ I must be bored out of my god damn mind.

DRINK DEEP, OR TASTE NOT, THE PLASMA SPRING

you're/your there/their

[Juby]

quote:Originally posted by Whither Canada

So tell me what's going to happen to those same kids when the time comes for them to contact someone outside of Jamaica or the Jamaican expat community? What language will they be communicating in?

How are they any better off learning in Patois?

ahahahaha, you sound like an old fashioned imperialist, like you know whats best for them. They have the right to develope the english language in their country as they see fit, they don't have to streamline, especially in internal matters, in fact it's affront to their culture to deem there english as unacceptable.

As for say 2nd generation Jamaican Canadian kids, like most kids of immigrants they will probably speak both, to us a slightly flavoured normal canadian english, to jamaicans a slightly canadianized version of patois.

As for people in Jamaica, Patois is large numbers natural language, the benefit of learning in Patois is the same teaching canadian english kids in canadian english here, they are more likely to succede if you teach them in their own language. Just try and put yourself in there shoes, Imagine if you spoke the way you do now but you went to school where they only taught in Patois. For most people that would probably be to much to handle and you would inevitably fall behind. The idea that people should not be taught in the language of their community honestly seems silly to me.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Can the code be changed?

scruffz

What's up guys,

Just letting you know for the record I am a Canadian supporter (Background is Trini though), but i've been looking through message boards and I find it kind of ridiculous that Canadian fans are trying to hard to shut out Jamaican supporters from seeing their team. So I figured i'd be a nice guy and give you all the presale codes for the game:

OSA Presale: XXX

TFS Presale: XXX

When you go to the ticket page you can actually select what section you want to sit in (Canada supporters or Jamaica suporters), so hopefully you wont have to be worried about being stuck with a bunch of Canadian fans. Hopes this helps you all out.

And i'll be in section 107 with my Canadian gear on. Hope to meet some of you during the game.

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by Whither Canada

So tell me what's going to happen to those same kids when the time comes for them to contact someone outside of Jamaica or the Jamaican expat community? What language will they be communicating in?

How are they any better off learning in Patois?

Good point. Talk about letting these kids down by placing lowered expectations on them.

[Whither Canada]

quote:Originally posted by Juby

ahahahaha, you sound like an old fashioned imperialist, like you know whats best for them. They have the right to develope the english language in their country as they see fit, they don't have to streamline, especially in internal matters, in fact it's affront to their culture to deem there english as unacceptable.

As for say 2nd generation Jamaican Canadian kids, like most kids of immigrants they will probably speak both, to us a slightly flavoured normal canadian english, to jamaicans a slightly canadianized version of patois.

As for people in Jamaica, Patois is large numbers natural language, the benefit of learning in Patois is the same teaching canadian english kids in canadian english here, they are more likely to succede if you teach them in their own language. Just try and put yourself in there shoes, Imagine if you spoke the way you do now but you went to school where they only taught in Patois. For most people that would probably be to much to handle and you would inevitably fall behind. The idea that people should not be taught in the language of their community honestly seems silly to me.

Look, they can do whatever the hell they want with their education system. But their kids are being done a disservice.

I'm not an old-fashioned imperialist but a new-world realist - quick, what's the universal language of the planet (and especially the business world)? English, no? In the globalized world, if you can't communicate in English, I'm afraid you'll be left behind.

And at the risk of being called the dreaded "I"-word again, like it or not, Jamaica has an English language heritage. If you're already an English-language nation, why are you risking your future in trying to change that?

[Juby]

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

Good point. Talk about letting these kids down by placing lowered expectations on them.

this statement completely exemplifies the wrong attitude. Your saying definitively that patois is a lower form of communication (which it's not), We go to school and hear the same english as we do in our community, they have to learn two different englishs, one at home thats natural to them, and then one at school, it seems to me that learning standerdized english is raising the bar to far for almost everybody.

how is learning the exact same things in Patois lowering expectations? That's like saying someone who has the same job but speaks and writes patois is not equal to his canadian english counterpart. People should be judged on how they act and what they say, not how they say it, or any other criteria.

[Juby]

quote:Originally posted by Whither Canada

Look, they can do whatever the hell they want with their education system. But their kids are being done a disservice.

I'm not an old-fashioned imperialist but a new-world realist - quick, what's the universal language of the planet (and especially the business world)? English, no? In the globalized world, if you can't communicate in English, I'm afraid you'll be left behind.

And at the risk of being called the dreaded "I"-word again, like it or not, Jamaica has an English language heritage. If you're already an English-language nation, why are you risking your future in trying to change that?

english is a language of change, everywhere you go you find new varients, English itself has a tonne of east Indian, French (especially in Canada) and even old native carib words. It's a constant in language that dialects will develope (why don't you go australia and tell them not to say certian words while your at it). Language change is natural (If you go back to england like 400, 500 years a go you would be almost incomprehensible, the same will probably be true 400 years from now) and language is undeniably tied into culture, so it's just not an issue you can go around saying right and wrong about.

And really, look at how the world is developing, in 50 years the chinese will try (unsuccessfully) to make mandarin the language of international business, India will probably try and put it's stamp down too, and at the end of it, everyone will just agree to be different. I guareentee you English will not become the new latin cause most of the world will laugh in your face if you tried to force it down there throats. English has an international advantage right now in business because everyone wants to work with us but that will change as power shifts and if we sit around expecting the world to work in english for us, we will fall behind.

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by Juby

this statement completely exemplifies the wrong attitude. Your saying definitively that patois is a lower form of communication (which it's not),

Don't put words in my mouth. After reading what i said i don't know where you extrapolated that statement. Jamaica is an english speaking country, teaching patois instead of english is putting these children at a disadvantage because they will not be able to write in english and will be shut out of jobs. This is a divisive policy that will keep the poor in the cycle of poverty.

quote:Originally posted by Juby

We go to school and hear the same english as we do in our community, they have to learn two different englishs, one at home thats natural to them, and then one at school, it seems to me that learning standerdized english is raising the bar to far for almost everybody.

Wow, talk about subtle prejudice. And why is it too hard for these children to learn 2 languages? Are they not as intelligent as Canadian children who learn 2 languages? Or Swiss children who have to learn 4 languages?

quote:Originally posted by Juby

how is learning the exact same things in Patois lowering expectations? That's like saying someone who has the same job but speaks and writes patois is not equal to his canadian english counterpart. People should be judged on how they act and what they say, not how they say it, or any other criteria.

The english-speaking business world (as all languages do) has certain standards. Knowing how to spell correctly is one of those. If these poor children want to go to an english speaking university they won't get in. If they want to get a job where they need english, nada either. You trap these kids in a cycle of poverty from the lowered expectations - that they're not capable of learning english, which is false.

[Juby]

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

Don't put words in my mouth. After reading what i said i don't know where you extrapolated that statement. Jamaica is an english speaking country, teaching patois instead of english is putting these children at a disadvantage because they will not be able to write in english and will be shut out of jobs. This is a divisive policy that will keep the poor in the cycle of poverty.

Wow, talk about subtle prejudice. And why is it too hard for these children to learn 2 languages? Are they not as intelligent as Canadian children who learn 2 languages? Or Swiss children who have to learn 4 languages?

The english-speaking business world (as all languages do) has certain standards. Knowing how to spell correctly is one of those. If these poor children want to go to an english speaking university they won't get in. If they want to get a job where they need english, nada either. You trap these kids in a cycle of poverty from the lowered expectations - that they're not capable of learning english, which is false.

1) I didn't put words in your mouth, you said using patois in school was lowering the bar, is using canadian english in our schools lowering the bar? no, so if one is true and the other is not, what you were saying is obvious.

2)yes we learn french in school but our school isn't taught in French (unless of course your in quebec or french immersion), you learn everything in your language except when your learning another language. I got no problem with learning extra languages but what your describing is alot more like old native policy then current Canadian schools.

3) like I said, try putting yourself in the shoes of a 4 year old who speaks canadian english and then you go to a patois school where they teach every subject except say french in Patois, yer screwed. You are raising the bar because you have to have a natural ability to learn languages to succede in that system or else you wash out.

Like honestly, your response was completely off the mark. Your comparing Canada, where kids learn in their natural language except for 40 minutes to an hour of french to a system where kids have to work in English over Patois for everything. If Jamaicans want to come to Canada or elsewhere and do international business, they will learn standerdized english, just like you would learn german if you were moving to germany but your saying that every Jamaican needs to know our english even though most are going to continue to live and work in Jamaica. Jamaicans would be better off if everyone had a decent education regardless of what language they spoke, rather then an education system geared externally instead of internally. You really think that If a Jamaican learns in a patois school that he is doomed to failure? maybe outside of Jamaica but thats your standards.

The exact same thing happened with our natives but more brutally, they were told they couldn't speak in their natural language (which is far more brutal) and had to learn english, they were told their native languages were inferior and useless, and now *surprise surprise* they have a culture gap and low self esteem is rampant.

I'm not saying Jamaican shouldn't learn our english ever, but every Jamaican should be able to get his high school degree in his native language.