Jamaica in Toronto - Official

[theaub]

As long as he sells them for face value, there's nothing wrong with that and its a damn good idea.

However, since I sat with 3 Canada fans and 250 Chile fans the last time I was at a MNT game, I'll have to decline your offer since I don't have the money to buy a lot of tickets and I'd like to sit with Canada fans this time

[Vancouver Fan]

quote:Originally posted by CanadianTraveller

While I love the spirit and the idea behind this, please recognize that you are suggesting a set of actions that place people in jeopardy of violating criminal and civil laws in Canada, and could harm the goodwill of the CSA towards the Voyageurs, were someone to proceed with this course of action.

1. The Ticket Speculation Act of Ontario regulates some of what you are proposing. I am not a lawyer and cannot provide legal advice. My personal reading of the act would prompt me to obtain legal advice regarding the maximum resale value of the ticket (e.g. can I recoup Ticketmaster fees?) and the need to be licensed to sell goods in the city of Toronto and/or the province of Ontario if handling a bulk purchase (i.e. a business license and/or PST number).

2. There is nothing suggesting that, as an example, I could sell tickets to "Canadian supporters" any more easily than Ticketmaster could. How would you handle successful disposition of the tickets? Perhaps if you were handling a group buy for a known group - says the Elks of Port Perry or the Methodist Church Ladies Auxiliary of Oakville? But you'd need the customer groups identified before you bought the tickets, I'd think.

3. Furthermore, there are specific laws on discrimination related to the sale of goods in various provinces and in Canada. While it may be difficult to prove that the actions mentioned above were discriminatory, there is certainly the potential for a reasonable person to conclude there was discrimination, which could lead to a complaint and charges.

4. The CSA, as host of the event, may not appreciate the resale of their tickets at any price. Most event promoters prefer that individuals have access to the tickets directly. I don't know what the CSA would think about this gesture, but if you're doing it as a Voyageur it could inadvertently harm the group's reputation and ability to obtain future tickets.

What you do with a couple of tickets (probably up to 8 tickets), without discussing it with others, is your business of course. Discussing it here, bringing other people into the mix, brings its own risks of prosecution and spreads that risk to others who might otherwise be uninvolved.

Just my opinion - I don't represent the CSA, Ontario, Toronto, Ticketmaster, or the Voyageurs. But I'd ask you to think about the potential consequences.

Well first off I don't think I'll be purchasing more than a couple of tickets and I am prepared to take the loss since I wasn't planning on actively selling the tickets. If the game was sold out and a Canada fan was looking to attend the game I would sell it to them at face value providing they didn't mind sitting in a Jamaican section. I wouldn't even ask for the ticketmaster fee either.

Anyway I'm just throwing it out there. The last thing I want to do is start something that would jeopardise our relationship with the CSA or harm the Voyageur name.

I think a couple of empty seats are better than 2 seats filled with someone dressed in green ,yellow, and black.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by jahman

Damien Francis, Kevin Lisbie, Bylfield, Hayles - no longer with the squad -just not good enough. Marlon King will start - the others, will be long shots to make the final 18. I except no more than 3 sons of Jamaica who were born elsewhere to make the squad. But I like the effort....AS for Andy - you guys got Lee Chin

According to Wiki you had 6 non-Jamaican born players called up against Bahamas including one born in Canada. YNWA, England in disguise sounds like the beginning of a nice chant for the Jamaica game!

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Vancouver Fan

Unfortunately I can't make the game but I was thinking of buying tickets in the Jamaican section to help reduce their numbers. Any other Canadian supporters that want to do the same? We could sell them back to Canadian supporters who are without tickets and want to attend the game.

Sounds like the Jamaicans will be in section 107/108.[8D]

I don't think this is a very good idea. I think we need to concentrate on what we are doing not what the Jamaicans are doing. My personal opinion is I have nothing against those Jamaicans who do not live in Canada attending the game as they have every right to be there if they can buy tickets. I also have nothing against those Jamaican-Canadians who are pro-Jamaica but also not against Canada. Yes there will be some Jamaican-Canadians some even born here who will be against Canada but this attitude is not something we will change during a soccer game and especially not if we have an aggressive attitude. If we eliminate Jamaica I wouldn't be surprised if at least a percentage of these people come to the Canada games in the Hex as long as they don't feel slighted from the game in Toronto.

I think it is important that the Jamaican fans buy tickets in their sections and we buy tickets in ours and that there is as little mix as possible as that will only create problems. If we are playing in our house it is not the responsibility of Jamaicans not to buy tickets but our responsibility to buy enough tickets that it is difficult for the away fans to get them. Thus if anyone wants to buy tickets even though they can not attend they should buy tickets in our sections or neutral sections and give them to pro-Canada friends in Toronto or if they don't know anyone, Voyageurs who can recruit people to the game. I wouldn't want any Voyageurs in the Jamaica section as that is provocative and could lead to trouble and putting milder fans in a rowdy section there would not be fair them.

At the Montreal friendly game the Jamaican fans were pretty cool though despite some crazy reports to the contrary (probably by people who weren't at the game) there were not very many of them. I don't know what it will be like with a larger percentage of Jamaicans in the Toronto crowd but until they do anything provocative I don't think we should be going out of our way to antagonize them either. Yes I know the guys on the Reggaeboyz forum were very ignorant and antagonizing but that doesn't mean they will be the ones attending the game (surprisingly I looked at the Honduran thread on BigSoccer and the fans there were far more knowledgeable than the Reggaeboyz about our team and were giving us a lot of respect. Didn't expect that from the Hondurans.) If we announce on our forum we are going to buy tickets in their section they will do the same to us (so if you are going to do this be secretive). This tactic will only work if the stadium is sold out well before the game as otherwise the Jamaicans will just buy tickets elsewhere and possibly move to their section afterwards. I think if you want to buy tickets buy them in our section and send them to a Voyageur and if we can't find a friend who will cheer loudly for us we will find someone in a bar to come and cheer loudly for Canada for a free ticket. It can't be that hard considering in Montreal Daniel managed to get a hard core drunken alcoholic separatist he met in a bar before the game to cheer for us against St. Vincent. Let's concentrate on what we are doing and not on what the Jamaicans are doing. If we do what we have to we will have a big pro-Canada crowd for this game.

[jahman]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

According to Wiki you had 6 non-Jamaican born players called up against Bahamas including one born in Canada. YNWA, England in disguise sounds like the beginning of a nice chant for the Jamaica game!

Ahhh, wiki, therfore must be correct [].... while you are at it please check wiki (your source) for the number of current Canadian players born elsewhere.

I think the bigger issue is why the best two footballers Canada ever produced does not want to play for Canada - I got to dig up that Hargreaves quote. How about these two chants...

I'll sit cause I'm a Brit

Thank you very much, but I am Dutch

The irony of this is your best former players were born elsewhere; granted, the pool of former players born elsewhere is massive, but interesting nonethless.

...now back to the regular schedule discussion

[Ivan]

Well, we may have had a few born elsewhere, but they were raised in Canada and learned their football here. Issey is the only one I can think of that didn't spend much time here.

On the other hand, how many Marlon Kings, etc, are there on the Jamaican team who have never stepped foot in Jamaica, other than to play a football game?

And yes, you are correct about our two "best footballers", embarrassing and disappointing. But we are going to naturalize Dever Orgill! : )

[jahman]

Oh yes, just like Freddy Adu learned his football in the US, sure Yallop, Hume, Nsaliwa, Carl Valentine, Iain Fraser and the other multitude of imported fringe players learned their football in Canada....ok...if it makes you feel better. Even Radz - just does not play like your typical Canadian born player. As for Dever Orgill - lets just say he will never play for Canada. Jamaican law - if you are born outside Jamaica to a Jamaican mother (not sure if both parents needs to be Jamaican) your are a Jamaican citizen.

gosh darn it, I am hijacking this thread.

[Keegan]

dem jah boyz on de reggae boyz forum iz stil tryna figer oot inglish. no wun tot dem boyz 2 spell gud.

Kind of funny that Jamaicans think they have a stronger squad. Oh well, what can you expect from a bunch who can't even type....

[jahman]

quote:Originally posted by Keegan

dem jah boyz on de reggae boyz forum iz stil tryna figer oot inglish. no wun tot dem boyz 2 spell gud.

You do understand that many are poting in patois, I mean,you do understand that, eh?. Your ignorance is whats funny. The spelling, when posting in English is on par with your fellow Canucks.

[kclee]

After watching you beat Bahamas (GOL TV), I can't figure out how you can possibly think you have enough quality to beat Canada. JDG will own the midfield and you have no answer for him. He plays in La Liga, you know. In Spain. The Euro champs. Get it. Do you see where I am going with this. This is not the Canadian teams you know and love from the past. You know, the teams you have a losing record against.

quote:Originally posted by jahman

Oh yes, just like Freddy Adu learned his football in the US, sure Yallop, Hume, Nsaliwa, Carl Valentine, Iain Fraser and the other multitude of imported fringe players learned their football in Canada....ok...if it makes you feel better. Even Radz - just does not play like your typical Canadian born player. As for Dever Orgill - lets just say he will never play for Canada. Jamaican law - if you are born outside Jamaica to a Jamaican mother (not sure if both parents needs to be Jamaican) your are a Jamaican citizen.

gosh darn it, I am hijacking this thread.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by jahman

Oh yes, just like Freddy Adu learned his football in the US, sure Yallop, Hume, Nsaliwa, Carl Valentine, Iain Fraser and the other multitude of imported fringe players learned their football in Canada....ok...if it makes you feel better.

Wow, way to stay current. I hope you inform Rene Simoes of the Canadian threats of Frank Yallop, Carl Valentine and Iain Fraser.

As for Hume and Nsaliwa, they did did learn their football here. Or did you think they didn't play from the ages of 2 until whenever they went over to Europe on a pro contract?

Since you love Wiki so much, I've pasted the most recent Canadian roster from that site below:

18 GK Pat Onstad January 13, 1968 (1968-01-13) (age 40) 55 0 Houston Dynamo

1 GK Greg Sutton April 19, 1977 (1977-04-19) (age 31) 11 0 Toronto FC

3 DF Michael Klukowski May 27, 1981 (1981-05-27) (age 27) 15 0 Club Brugge

4 DF André Hainault June 17, 1986 (1986-06-17) (age 22) 11 0 Sparta Praha

2 DF Jim Brennan May 8, 1977 (1977-05-08) (age 31) 47 6 Toronto FC

11 DF Richard Hastings May 18, 1977 (1977-05-18) (age 31) 48 1 Inverness CT

5 DF Adrian Serioux May 12, 1979 (1979-05-12) (age 29) 15 0 FC Dallas

7 DF Paul Stalteri October 18, 1977 (1977-10-18) (age 30) 67 7 Tottenham

17 DF Adrian Cann October 19, 1980 (1980-10-19) (age 27) 3 0 Esbjerg fB

6 MF Julian de Guzman March 25, 1981 (1981-03-25) (age 27) 32 3 Deportivo La Coruña

8 MF Marcel de Jong October 15, 1986 (1986-10-15) (age 21) 4 0 Roda Kerkrade

12 MF Issey Nakajima-Farran May 16, 1984 (1984-05-16) (age 24) 14 1 FC Nordsjælland

13 MF Atiba Hutchinson February 8, 1983 (1983-02-08) (age 25) 36 3 FC Copenhagen

14 MF Dwayne De Rosario May 15, 1978 (1978-05-15) (age 30) 49 15 Houston Dynamo

15 MF Patrice Bernier September 23, 1979 (1979-09-23) (age 28) 32 0 FC Nordsjælland

9 FW Tomasz Radzinski December 14, 1973 (1973-12-14) (age 34) 41 9 Skoda Xanthi

16 FW Rob Friend January 23, 1981 (1981-01-23) (age 27) 18 2 Borussia Mönchengladbach

10 FW Ali Gerba July 27, 1982 (1982-07-27) (age 25) 18 9 Unattached

Of that list, a grand total of three players were born outside of Canada, two of which (Ali Gerba and Mike Klukowski) immigrated to Canada as toddlers.

[jahman]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

Wow, way to stay current. I hope you inform Rene Simoes of the Canadian threats of Frank Yallop, Carl Valentine and Iain Fraser.

As for Hume and Nsaliwa, they did did learn their football here. Or did you think they didn't play from the ages of 2 until whenever they went over to Europe on a pro contract?

Since you love Wiki so much, I've pasted the most recent Canadian roster from that site below:

18 GK Pat Onstad January 13, 1968 (1968-01-13) (age 40) 55 0 Houston Dynamo

1 GK Greg Sutton April 19, 1977 (1977-04-19) (age 31) 11 0 Toronto FC

3 DF Michael Klukowski May 27, 1981 (1981-05-27) (age 27) 15 0 Club Brugge

4 DF André Hainault June 17, 1986 (1986-06-17) (age 22) 11 0 Sparta Praha

2 DF Jim Brennan May 8, 1977 (1977-05-08) (age 31) 47 6 Toronto FC

11 DF Richard Hastings May 18, 1977 (1977-05-18) (age 31) 48 1 Inverness CT

5 DF Adrian Serioux May 12, 1979 (1979-05-12) (age 29) 15 0 FC Dallas

7 DF Paul Stalteri October 18, 1977 (1977-10-18) (age 30) 67 7 Tottenham

17 DF Adrian Cann October 19, 1980 (1980-10-19) (age 27) 3 0 Esbjerg fB

6 MF Julian de Guzman March 25, 1981 (1981-03-25) (age 27) 32 3 Deportivo La Coruña

8 MF Marcel de Jong October 15, 1986 (1986-10-15) (age 21) 4 0 Roda Kerkrade

12 MF Issey Nakajima-Farran May 16, 1984 (1984-05-16) (age 24) 14 1 FC Nordsjælland

13 MF Atiba Hutchinson February 8, 1983 (1983-02-08) (age 25) 36 3 FC Copenhagen

14 MF Dwayne De Rosario May 15, 1978 (1978-05-15) (age 30) 49 15 Houston Dynamo

15 MF Patrice Bernier September 23, 1979 (1979-09-23) (age 28) 32 0 FC Nordsjælland

9 FW Tomasz Radzinski December 14, 1973 (1973-12-14) (age 34) 41 9 Skoda Xanthi

16 FW Rob Friend January 23, 1981 (1981-01-23) (age 27) 18 2 Borussia Mönchengladbach

10 FW Ali Gerba July 27, 1982 (1982-07-27) (age 25) 18 9 Unattached

Of that list, a grand total of three players were born outside of Canada, two of which (Ali Gerba and Mike Klukowski) immigrated to Canada as toddlers.

The point of bringing up players from the past is to highlight the fact that Canada has relied on and continues to rely on non Canadian born players. It was not a comment on your current team make up - which has as much non Canadian born players making a contribution as Jamiaca. Therefore, to criticize Jamaica is very hypocritical and somewhat comical. A Jamaican is a Jamaican regardless of where they are born.

[jahman]

Originally posted by kclee

After watching you beat Bahamas (GOL TV), I can't figure out how you can possibly think you have enough quality to beat Canada. JDG will own the midfield and you have no answer for him. He plays in La Liga, you know. In Spain. The Euro champs. Get it. Do you see where I am going with this.

This makes as much sense as saying since there were two English clubs in the Champions League final then England should have won the Euro. How does that fact that Spain winnng the tourney affects the Canadian team. Arent there a few Panamanians in La Liga - you see where I am going with this?

[piltdownman]

I personally think buying tickets in the Jamaican section and putting Canadians there is a very bad idea. Its the same as if they got tickets in our end. I think it undermines the direction, that I support 100%, that the CSA is taking in segregating opposition fans.

I think the most important thing is getting tickets in the 'neutral' sections. I think buying tickets there and trying to start a Pro-Canada Atmosphere is key. Anyone have a contact that could get us some really inexpensive Canada Flags? When I was in Germany for the world Cup you could buy flags retail for One Euro. Imagine if we were to place a few thousand flags on every second seat in the neutral seats opposite the cameras. Maybe make a whole package with a clean chant sheet, and a little blurb about the National team and the Voyageurs. Instant pro Canada atmosphere. I for one would be willing to put a few hundred into this venture. Get another dozen people willing to do the same and we could help create something great.

Another idea would be to find out where the youth teams will be and have some people help lead all the kiddies in pro Canada chants.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by jahman

The point of bringing up players from the past is to highlight the fact that Canada has relied on and continues to rely on non Canadian born players. It was not a comment on your current team make up - which has as much non Canadian born players making a contribution as Jamiaca. Therefore, to criticize Jamaica is very hypocritical and somewhat comical. A Jamaican is a Jamaican regardless of where they are born.

So you must think Julian de Guzman is Jamaican (even though he seems to be under the impression that he's Canadian of JA and Filipino descent).

That's rather hypocritical of you right there.

Add in the fact that six of your players from the Bahamas series were not Jamaican born, and you have even less of a leg to stand on.

What's that about living in glass houses and throwing stones? At least our so-called 'foreign' players have played football in Canada and lived here for a considerable amount of time before pulling on the shirt. That's more than I can say for a big chunk of the JA side, both historically and currently.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by piltdownman

Anyone have a contact that could get us some really inexpensive Canada Flags?

MP's offices give away 3x5 Canada flags for free with just a simple request.

[Ivan]

See Rudi's post Jahman, your argument really makes little sense, it is so far out of date. Actually, Radzinski arrived here at 14, played in the CSL at 17 and for a few years after, before moving to Belgium. Can you please post Jamaica's recent roster and give us a similar rundown?

I really was only kidding about Orgill. Besides, he is being outplayed by his young Canadian teammate Randy Edwini-Bonsu (Born in edmonton, I think)!

[Blue and White Army]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

MP's offices give away 3x5 Canada flags for free with just a simple request.

Are you talking feet, or inches?

[piltdownman]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

MP's offices give away 3x5 Canada flags for free with just a simple request.

I somehow don't think they are going to give me thousand of Canada Flags.

[Alex]

What else are they going to do with them, isn't the idea of having them so they can be given out for occasions like this one?

[jahman]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

So you must think Julian de Guzman is Jamaican (even though he seems to be under the impression that he's Canadian of JA and Filipino descent).

That's rather hypocritical of you right there.

Add in the fact that six of your players from the Bahamas series were not Jamaican born, and you have even less of a leg to stand on.

What's that about living in glass houses and throwing stones? At least our so-called 'foreign' players have played football in Canada and lived here for a considerable amount of time before pulling on the shirt. That's more than I can say for a big chunk of the JA side, both historically and currently.

Where did I even hint at JDG being Jamaican? I clearly was speaking of Canada from a historical stand point - no denying that. As for the glass house bit - the Canadians were the one to bring up the Jamaican foreing players - not I.

Ivan - Radz coming here at 14 again, football was engrained in him up to that point - again goes to my argument that the foreingers on Canadas team plays less robotic than Canadian born players.

My last post here as I really do not want to derail the real discussion. Will pick it up in a more appropriate thread.

[gardencity]

If it's my MP's office, it'll be centimeters.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Blue and White Army

Are you talking feet, or inches?

It's feet.

quote:Originally posted by jahman

Where did I even hint at JDG being Jamaican?

You said that they were all Jamaican, regardless of being born there or not.

Oh, and there was also this from earlier in the thread, in clear reference to JDG...

quote:Originally posted by jahman

The irony of your comment is that indeed the best player on the pitch will be a Jamaican.

[paul-toronto]

I just wonder how DM evaluates players when one group are in mid season form and another is about enter training camp. I sure hope he goes with as many MLS players in the early games. Even Harsme, Ante Jazic could be candidates for the earlier round games...along with Brennan, Serioux, Dero

Look at TFC the other night when they played Pachua; tfc put up a bunch of young players against some really good players. From what I have read, our guys help up pretty well. Accross the pond, just at what mid season Russians did at Euro2008.

I sure hope DM and company take this approach. We now have a chance to get a decent number MLS players for the early part of this round.

[kungfucultmaster]