July 1, 2008: TFC vs. Whitecaps, Match Thread (R)

[kyam]

quote:Originally posted by Vancouversoccerman

Yeah, the PK was unusual for sure, but the Caps could say the same for the ridiculously lopsided officiating in the 2nd half.

The officials was trying to make-up for the horrible penalty because no official in the world wants to be the one who decided an important game.

Unfortunately for TFC, they could not capitalize, mind you, Nully was pumpted and the Whitecaps needed it more than Toronto.

We`ll come up on top in the end. Just TFC's big ex-Premiership signings need to get with the program. Civic pride is on the line, Robert\Ricketts (New Castle\Arsenal both represented in these two) both played like the Canada Cup is nothing more than a "Friendly"

Well, its not... I hope they realize that now.

[kyam]

quote:Originally posted by Alberto7

When I saw Gbeke enter the game on Tuesday I was struck with the thought that he had already played for Montreal in this Championship and should not be available for Vancouver at all. Upon checking, I saw that he was on the bench in two of Montreal's three games but did not play and did not even dress for the third game(he was with Trois Rivi#232;res at the time).

I wonder if he would have been ineligible to play with Vancouver if he had played for Montreal. Anyone know?

I think he'd be able to play. Why was he with Trois Rivieres? I forgot if ex-Premiership defender, Oliver Tebily was fielded for Toronto FC... but woulda been interesting to see two former Ivory Coast Internationals face-off against each other

Was Gbeke part of the Ivory Coast national team?

Anyhow... it wouldn't matter, all our ex-premiership stars failed... Ricketts looked confused, Dichio was ineffective, Robert was lazy as usual, though he has an amazing kick and maybe keeping him on in the 2nd half woulda paid off if he took all the freekicks.

These Euro guys need to realize that this isn't a "friendly" tournament, its the real deal and TFC Fans expect them to win...

[kyam]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

Curse the CBC for showing us rubes in Saskatchewan a completely different game than the one apparently played.

The Whitecaps could easily have had 5 goals yesterday. They showed every bit as much attacking initiative as Toronto, moreso in fact, and only in the last 25 minutes or did they drop into a more defensive posture. Its called winning on the road and TFC might learn a thing or two from the performance the 'caps put in against them.

The Whitecaps should have put in 5...in "the fortress"...and the score flattered TFC.

If you look at TFC's record in MLS, and the fact that the whole season has been sold out, you`ll see why its called the Fortress.

But the biggest problem for TFC was not the officiating or where the game was played. The biggest problem was that our best players, all our ex-premiership signings, Robert (New Castle), Ricketts (Arsenal\Reading), Tebily (Birmingham, though I don't think he played), were not only complacent, they didn't care.

I honestly think, the fact that they are NOT Canadian, they don't understand how much this means for Canadian soccer. They saw it as friendlies. Of course, Carver pulled them all, hoping to send a message.

I am absolutely sure Toronto will win the next 2 games. As a defensive team, I think they`ll score 1, and hold on to the 1 goal, so I expect 1-0 wins in both contests for TFC. Nully won't pull the same performance twice, and TFC's big stars have already learned hte hard way that ITS NOT A FRIENDLY!

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by kyam

The biggest problem was that our best players, all our ex-premiership signings, Robert (New Castle), Ricketts (Arsenal\Reading), Tebily (Birmingham, though I don't think he played), were not only complacent, they didn't care.

!

I thought that Tebili played for Celtic. Good point about the subs though. I also noted that of the three players taken off, two were British and one was a Frenchman. There was only one ( Carl Robinson ) non concacaf player left. Though smith who came on is a Kiwi.

Some in this thread were surprised by the effort from AG. well perhaps for Central americans, Jamaicans, Trinis, and Americans the Conacaf Champions leagues resonates more with them tha with Europeans. Essentially, TFC's seconda half squad was Concacaf players.

[Blue and White Army]

quote:Originally posted by Most Scottish Man in Cdn.

I think they're getting better (I only watched it online as it wasn't on TV in Nova Scotia) but does anyone else notice CBC does terrible camera and switching work?

I've actually enjoyed the CBC's production of most of the TFC matches so far this year. They do a great job of scattering microphones across the stadium and catching all of the songs being sung, unlike Rogers Sportsnet. Watching a TFC match on Sportsnet is almost as dull as watching a Jays game.

[Tintin]

About Gbeke being eligible, it's called being cup-tied in most countries. You can be transferred and play league games for another club, but, for example, if you played for Man Ure in the FA cup, and were transferred to a less pukey team, you can't play for for the new team in the cup.

Blue and White Army: I see you've moved. How are the sweet loaves there? How do you get to Lower Middle Street from Upper Thingamajig Street? I'm hungry.

[Free kick]

I'd be interested to know if such a document ( competition rules) was ever devised for this competition. It has to exist, yet I have never seen it. you would think it would made public and found on something like the CSA website.

eg.:

1) what are all the tie breakers

2) what is the rule for number of cautions ( accumulation of yellow cards) and resulting suspensions for matches in this competition

3) what are the player eligibilities rules. Can you be cup ties in the case of Gbeke and not be allowed to play if you get traded?

[Alberto7]

quote:Originally posted by kyam

I think he'd be able to play. Why was he with Trois Rivieres? I forgot if ex-Premiership defender, Oliver Tebily was fielded for Toronto FC... but woulda been interesting to see two former Ivory Coast Internationals face-off against each other

Was Gbeke part of the Ivory Coast national team?

Anyhow... it wouldn't matter, all our ex-premiership stars failed... Ricketts looked confused, Dichio was ineffective, Robert was lazy as usual, though he has an amazing kick and maybe keeping him on in the 2nd half woulda paid off if he took all the freekicks.

These Euro guys need to realize that this isn't a "friendly" tournament, its the real deal and TFC Fans expect them to win...

To answer your two questions:

He was with Trois Rivières because he had basically lost his place on the Impact so they sent him there to get some playing time. He played in two games last weekend against TFC academy and scored a couple of goals (I believe) and also collided with the TFC academy keeper, injuring him in the process.

Gbeke has not played for the Ivory Coast national team. He has one senior cap with Canada(the 1-0 win over Martinique in January )

[Daniel]

Gbeke didn't play for Montreal in the cup, so he's not cup-tied either way.

What's truly ridiculous is that this competition doesn't have an official website. It gets one incomplete (no stats, no goal differential, etc.) page buried on the CSA website (http://www.canadasoccer.com/tourney/FIFA_Clubs/national.asp) and nothing by Nutrilite.

The Wikipedia page is awesome, though.

[Mpenza]

I don't see why Gbeke should be cup-tied when this tounament is NOT played in the cup format.

It's a championship, very much like any other championship there is out there, except that there are only 3 teams. Gbeke can play for Vancouver in the USL and so he should be able to play in the Canadian Championship as well.

[nolando]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

I don't see why Gbeke should be cup-tied when this tounament is NOT played in the cup format.

It's a championship, very much like any other championship there is out there, except that there are only 3 teams. Gbeke can play for Vancouver in the USL and so he should be able to play in the Canadian Championship as well.

ok, but try to imagine if Gbeke had scored an added time own goal with Montreal, and then scored a match winning goal with Vancouver over Montreal in the following week. I think there is a great potential for controversy if the players arent cup-tied. If you look at the wider scope of the tournament, especially where the winner goes after Nicaragua, then this is the Champion's League of our zone, and should be governed by similar rules like cup-tying players. Don't they have that in Europe?

[Free kick]

Another peculiarity to consider, Laurent Robert received a red card in the MLS game prior to the first V-cup match. As such he was forced to miss the next MLS game but not the first V-cup match whereby he played and even setup the only goal in the game. If the same was to occur to a Whitecap or Impact player, that player would not be allowed to play in the next game if it was a Van-Mon matchup because it counts as a USL game. As such TFC players have clean sheet as far as decipline going into the competition that the USL teams do not have.

[Mpenza]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

If the same was to occur to a Whitecap or Impact player, that player would not be allowed to play in the next game if it was a Van-Mon matchup because it counts as a USL game.

I don't know where you read/heard that, but it is wrong.

The games do NOT count as USL games.

[Mpenza]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

ok, but try to imagine if Gbeke had scored an added time own goal with Montreal, and then scored a match winning goal with Vancouver over Montreal in the following week.

I'm not sure I get it... You mean he would've cheated IN FAVOR of Vancouver when he had no clue he would be playing with them the following week?

Or maybe you meant it the other way around... Gbeke being traded to Vancouver and scoring an own goal against Montreal... Yes, I suppose it could happen. But that goes for anyone in any league, really... Say if Tim Howard was to go from Everton to Liverpool during the winter mercato and was to play against Everton the following week (or worse, a crucial game during the last month) and let an easy shot go through his legs, you'd probably mention there's a possibility he did it on purpose.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

I don't know where you read/heard that, but it is wrong.

The games do NOT count as USL games.

Your right. I just checked the USL scheds and the recent Van-Mon games are not on there.

[Daniel]

All V-Cup games are separate from league play.

[kyam]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

I thought that Tebili played for Celtic. Good point about the subs though. I also noted that of the three players taken off, two were British and one was a Frenchman. There was only one ( Carl Robinson ) non concacaf player left. Though smith who came on is a Kiwi.

Some in this thread were surprised by the effort from AG. well perhaps for Central americans, Jamaicans, Trinis, and Americans the Conacaf Champions leagues resonates more with them tha with Europeans. Essentially, TFC's seconda half squad was Concacaf players.

He made have been with the SPL at one point, but we signed him from Birmingham City, he played for them before they were relegated.

I meant fresh off the boat signings from Europe mainly, rather than all non-Canadians. Isn't Robinson always a Euro MLS player? (or am I mistaking Robinson for O'Brien?)... But I think AG's experience in MLS makes this his league, so he took it seriously.

Julias James and Marshall played Youth in the NCAA, so that might explain their level of play (and James wants a starting position)... Smith is from New Zealand, but he played Youth in the NCAA.

[kyam]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

Gbeke didn't play for Montreal in the cup, so he's not cup-tied either way.

What's truly ridiculous is that this competition doesn't have an official website. It gets one incomplete (no stats, no goal differential, etc.) page buried on the CSA website (http://www.canadasoccer.com/tourney/FIFA_Clubs/national.asp) and nothing by Nutrilite.

The Wikipedia page is awesome, though.

Yeah, I thought they could have done a better job marketing this as a whole. I mean, MLSE owns TFC, you'd think they'd have the marketing money to sell this.

Saputo is very influential in Quebecois circles as well. Rather than selling to a buncha little leaguers in Montreal, they could have sold this to the Euro-centric futebol supporters across Montreal.

Most European Soccer fans I know, are also hardcore hockey fans. They just don't give a rats ass about Canadian soccer, but I think an all Canadian Torny, with all the hockey civic rivalries brought into soccer, can win some new fans over. If only they sold it properly.

I thought BMO or Nutrilit could have turned their amazing TFC ads into a Canada Cup add, it sells the team, it sells tickets, and ramps up the ratings, which only gives their own products more visibility.

As successful as TFC, the Impact and the Whitecaps has been, its still no where near mainstream in the suburbs, or in Ontario's case, the Urbanized region of South Western Ontario (London, Windsor, Kitchener, Guelph...)...

How much support does the Whitecaps have for the BC Interior? Really?

[jonovision]

Perhaps this would be more appropriate in a different thread, but I'll ask here anyway:

Is there any chance that Brennan's suspension for Wednesday's match clears the way for another Canadian in the starting lineup? Is there a chance that TFC will start the match with only 1 Canadian on the field (Sutton)?

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by jonovision

Perhaps this would be more appropriate in a different thread, but I'll ask here anyway:

Is there any chance that Brennan's suspension for Wednesday's match clears the way for another Canadian in the starting lineup? Is there a chance that TFC will start the match with only 1 Canadian on the field (Sutton)?

Brennan's direct replacement at LB is Todd Dunivant, who is currently out with a fractured ankle.

No idea what Carver has in mind for the team on Wednesday, as he played regular starters Laurent Robert and Rohan Ricketts for 90 minutes against Pachuca yesterday (along with Brennan and Sutton), yet he rested almost everyone else.

The lesser-used Canadians that played yesterday didn't show too much outside of Kevin Harmse, who had his best game in a TFC IMO. Nana Attakora-Gyan played decently but his lack of experience really showed (against superb opposition such as Marioni, it must be noted). The Tylers (Rosenlund and Hemming) both played below their own standards, most notably Rosenlund who looked lost in his attacking midfield role alongside Harmse.

It wouldn't shock me to see Sutton as the only Canadian starter on Wednesday, although Harmse has earned himself some first-team action.

[Gian-Luca]

I expect he'll play Julius James at left back instead of Brennan. It would be nice if he gave Gabe Gala a shot there instead but I don't expect him to.