July 1, 2008: TFC vs. Whitecaps, Match Thread (R)

[loyola]

DeRo wasn't even on the bench. Onstad was.

[red card]

quote:CBC does terrible camera and switching work?

I thought the camera work, production and directing were really poor yesterday - especially since we've been spoiled by the Euros.

They made the same mistakes as it seems all North American broadcasters do: take too long to show a replay which means they miss live action; stay too long on iso player shots which often leads to missing live action; poor camera angles to show offsides properly, mentioned national anthems would be up next; but didn't show it on Canada Day, showing crowd shots when they weren't doing anything, and Nigel messed up the names of players more than a few times (though at least he mentioned it wasn't because he was drunk).

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by TFC07

He is still with TFC, but he doesn't play much at all.

Just does stand-up bits from what I can tell. Kind of like a poor man's Cabbie.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by red card

mentioned national anthems would be up next; but didn't show it on Canada Day

This was a big piss-off for me, as I felt the anthem yesterday was the best one ever at BMO Field so far.

The entire south end was draped in Canada flags, including that massive one we brought to the St. V&G game in Montreal, and every person seemed to be belting the anthem out.

[nolando]

Was a fun game to watch.

Hilarious seeing the biggest tension on the field being between former/current Nats, Brennan vs Nash and Brennan vs Clarke. Man were those some heated moments. I thought Brennan might have gotten a straight red, if not a second yellow at a couple points there.

Also funny seeing a Canadian crowd react in FAVOUR of Guevara, and booing when he DIDNT get a foul given in his favour etc. Also, was I the only one watching him and dreading facing him in WCQ? You TFC fans that support the Nats must be in an odd position there, to say the least.

Thought the same as many did about Marshall - if he is one of jamaica's top defensive players, then that bodes well.

Felt the foul in the box was odd, to say the least - and cant remember ever seeing so many players from both teams filling the 18 yard box - must have seen that three or four times in Vancouver's end.

LOVE the passion that Carver exuded in the post-game press conference. This is undoubtedly good for the league and for the club. And despite the poor showing on the field, I think Huckerby and Dickov would have been hard-pressed not to have been impressed by the general atmosphere, particularly if they have seen other MLS games in other stadiums. A lot of premiership stadiums look and sound like they have half the life in them that we saw in Toronto yesterday.

Wasted chances and needless give aways (oh and Sutton and his post) stopped Whitecaps from looking even better than they could have. A lot of hoofed balls out of play and out to nowhere on the Caps part made me think that all but a few of their players looked a step behind in terms of comparing USL and MLS. I liked what JDV said about the differences being not necessarily overall team strength, but how the best players on an MLS side are often miles better than the best players on most of the USL sides - seemed a strong argument from my point of view.

So happy that next Wednesday's game is meaningful - I will be there in full voice.

[Guest Ed]

Well Carver's rant is not helping win me over. I would hand him the last 3 TFC losses, no questions asked. Might be a nice Geordie and all, but not the brightest bulb on the porch so to speak.

Congrats to Vancouver on a well-deserved win. I recall someone made a note to rehash my Cup winner prediction as the competition wound up. Best get ready as next week will decide it.

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

Hilarious seeing the biggest tension on the field being between former/current Nats, Brennan vs Nash and Brennan vs Clarke. Man were those some heated moments. I thought Brennan might have gotten a straight red, if not a second yellow at a couple points there.

And Devos commenting it all, knowing that he's played with all three.

[Tractor Boy]

On World Soccer Daily, Kenny mentioned the game and said it was fantastic.

[Tractor Boy]

whats the latest on Huckerby, as an ex- Norwich scummer, can't wait to see him play and jeer him

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by AvroArrow

If you do get a chance to watch the replays of the game, check out how far out of postion the linesman is on the offside call on Cunningham. He's about 5 or 6 feet behind where he should be.

I thought he was out of position as well, thanks for confirming that. If you as A.R. are not right on-line, your angle of vision plays you tricks for close calls. As an A.R. you cannot assume someone is offside, you must see the offside to call it. Basic referee guidelines.

Insofar as the alleged PK, which I still can't see, but going by what the commentator kept repeating that it was given because of an obstruction, I sympathize with coach Carver saying that the last time he saw such a call was in 1945 lol. The fact is that obstruction no longer exists in Fifa rules. The new fault is called impeding the progress of an opponent. The correct restart of such a call is an indirect free kick, even inside the area, not a PK. I thought the refereeing was inconsistent and that the referee lost control of the game very early in it. And what was this deal of 2 minutes added time that latter was changed to 4 minutes. Please...

[jonovision]

I think the problem some people are having in understanding the penalty decision is that it was NOT given for actions on the ball (Jarun and some TFC player competing for the header). It was on Brennan, who was together with Clarke at the far post, and who brought Clarke down with a two-armed bear hug. That is a penalty, and similar ones have been called more recently than 1945. The CBC did a very bad job of zeroing in on that in their replays, but I am certain that is why the decision was taken.

[Guest Ed]

Thanks Jono. I was about to post the question "Is pointy-ball tackling considered 'impeding the progress of an opponent'? Brennan was caught with his hand in the cookie jar and paid for it.

[Tintin]

10 points to jonovision. That's exactly it. I don't see why people think it isn't a penalty.

One thing I forgot to mention earlier is that I thought the crowd was incredible. The loudest I've heard any Canadian crowd...for the first half hour or so, maybe until about the 36th minute.

After the goal, the BMO "faithful" seemed to have lost their faith. They were much more like a regular MLS crowd after that, which is disappointing. If I weren't so gung ho for all Canadian teams to do well, I'd be doing a few "sing when you're winning...you only sing when you're winning...sing when you're wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinning..."

Come on TO, support the boys even when you're down a goal.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

Essentially my view as well. How the hell does the referee pick out that foul to brennan? we have just finished watching an entire Euro tournamnet and of the thousands or so games that I have ever seen live, on Television, or played in rec level, high school etc..., I have never seen a pk awarded on a play like that. I have one recollection from a couple years back of seeing indirect free kick awarded inside the box. But that was it. Never a foul on the defending team and PK

In todays game, a corner kick has become a free for all and I think that FIFA needs to re examine this part of the game. Because all that you see when a corner ensues is that everybody is holding and grabbing and mysteriously ( something like 5-6 times out of ten) the ref will pick out someone on the attacking team whistle down the play and award the ball to the defending team even though most of the fouls are being committed by the defending team. The other four to five times out of ten , he'll just arbitrarily ignore everything and let the play ensue. Essentially, I see todays referees managing rather than refereing this aspect of the game. Thats why awarding a PK on that play demonstates incompetance IMO. In essence this has to be why the CBC TV announcers reported that the unusual step was taken by FIFA officials at the match to call in the referee at half to discuss his performance.

I think Carver was well aware of this and thats why ( given that he is normally not shy to comment on officiating) he had chosen to stay mum on this n the press conference. I suspect that someone may have offered up an appology to the club.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

I don't know about any apology and it was very surprising to hear that a FIFA official would speak to a referee during a match but the frustrating thing, as you note Tony, is that for the past month at EURO we've seen this and much worse with no sanction.

In regards to the play, there is a brief moment at the start of the play when Brennan's arms do end up wrapped up around the Whitecap due mainly to the attacker running directly into Brennan's chest. Brennan backed off as the man continued to push against him and eventually threw himself to the ground IMO.

You are right about the bedlam around corners.

What does FIFA do? Perhaps restrict each team to four players in the box at the time of the kick? At least the fouls would be more easy to see and the congestion would be lessened. Obviously the other players would rush in at the moment of ball contact but it would at least spread things out a bit.

Alternatively, they call everything but if they do that, it sure isn't up to Steve DiPiero to start the new wave of calls. We need a FIFA directive.

As you say Tony, we are so used to referees calling the majority of corner fouls on the offence. Often I've no idea what he called but the whistle has gone and it's a free kick for the defence. Extremely rarely do we see anything called against the defence no matter what goes on.

I'm intrigued by this FIFA visit.

[The Ref]

If the referee was being assessed during this game, it is standard procedure for the assessor to have a brief chat with the referee and sometimes the ARs during halftime to go over actions that need immediate correction.

I agree with the comments about what goes on during corner kicks. I am not sure what can be done. There are so many players in the boxes that even the best referees end up with their vision obstructed by players. There is usually way more than just one infraction by either team, just take your pick and blow the whistle.

[Calgary Boomer]

Just because it isn't called at the Euros doesn't mean it's not a foul. It's a foul, plain and simple. And it's not "obstruction" as the announcers kept calling it. If it was obstruction, that would lead to an indirect, not penalty.

That was a tough game to referee, and I think Jim Brennan was lucky to be on the field after his exchange with Martin Nash...

[Winnipeg Fury]

The most blatant foul not called was when a TFC player (Cunningham?) clearly body checked Nolly off the ball in the box.

It mattered little, because TFC could not capitalize.

[AvroArrow]

quote:Originally posted by Calgary Boomer

Just because it isn't called at the Euros doesn't mean it's not a foul. It's a foul, plain and simple. And it's not "obstruction" as the announcers kept calling it. If it was obstruction, that would lead to an indirect, not penalty.

An indirect free kick in the penalty box? I thought the only time that occured was on back passes to the goalie.

[Alberto7]

When I saw Gbeke enter the game on Tuesday I was struck with the thought that he had already played for Montreal in this Championship and should not be available for Vancouver at all. Upon checking, I saw that he was on the bench in two of Montreal's three games but did not play and did not even dress for the third game(he was with Trois Rivières at the time).

I wonder if he would have been ineligible to play with Vancouver if he had played for Montreal. Anyone know?

[piltdownman]

If you actually watched the entire Euros you would that FIFA's and UEFA's new directive is to cut down on such contact in the box. It was mentioned about half a dozen time during the tournament. They want to end the wrestling matches that occur in the box during set pieces. You only have to look at Howard Webb's call against Poland to see that even during the Euros less crap was allowed in the box. Brennan committed a foul and it was punished, blame him not the ref.

[Trident]

quote:Originally posted by Alberto7

I wonder if he would have been ineligible to play with Vancouver if he had played for Montreal. Anyone know?

Common sense would say he could still play for van. But I'm sure there are rules to prevent that as a form of cheating.

[Sam]

This was the first Toronto FC game I've went to this year. It was a blast, but I was a little disappointed with some of the tactics employed by Carver, especially in the first half. He calls it a 4-4-2, but it didn't look like this it looked much more like a 4-2-1-3 for most of the match. The midfield had no width, because Ricketts and Robert were flat with Dichio, which didn't make any sense. Then Guevara the most effective offensive producer, was isolated behind them. The wide backs didn't come forward to give width either in the first half. With that being said Wynne was brilliant offensively and defensively in the second half and the MotM by far (Robinson played well, but not as well as Wynne). Carver did make some very good substitutions though to make for one helluva second half. I also think Edu and Robert have to be dropped from the Starting XI. Edu and Robinson are too similar and Robinson is the better player. Robert is also the laziest player I have ever seen. He gives up the second after he loses the ball and doesn't chase anything.

I think Toronto would be best with a line-up like the one below.

-------------Sutton------------

--James--Velez--Marshall--Wynne--

------------Robinson-----------

--Brennan---------------Ricketts-

-------------Guevara------------

-------Dichio--------Cunningham--

Love to hear what the TFC season ticket holders (or people who see most of the games) think of this.

[jpg75]

^ Jim Brennan is left-footed and therefore a left sided player. If you want an attacking formation at home i'd go with this:

-------------Sutton------------

Wynne----Velez--Marshall--Brennan

---------------Edu--------------

Ricketts-------------------Robert

-------------Guevara------------

-------Dichio------Cunningham---

Robert and Ricketts switch sides all the time, so the side i have them lined up on is interchangeable.

The more i see of Robinson, the more convinced i am that TFC could make better use of his 315K per year.

[Sam]

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

^ Jim Brennan is left-footed and therefore a left sided player. If you want an attacking formation at home i'd go with this:

-------------Sutton------------

Wynne----Velez--Marshall--Brennan

---------------Edu--------------

Ricketts-------------------Robert

-------------Guevara------------

-------Dichio------Cunningham---

Robert and Ricketts switch sides all the time, so the side i have them lined up on is interchangeable.

The more i see of Robinson, the more convinced i am that TFC could make better use of his 315K per year.

I seem to be directionally challenged today. I had Brennan on the left and Ricketts on the right. And it isn't really meant to be an attacking formation, just a 4-4-2 with a little more depth. And surely Robinson is better than Edu, at least based on form?