The Jamaican fans...

[CanadaLFC]

Hey, I don't post here much and I can't say that i have been following the CMNT for as long as some of you have. In fact, I am just get into it more and now since I am Canadian, I thought let support my own country. Anyhow, I will most likely be going to the Canada-Jamaica match at BMO, and just wanted to get a general idea of what it will be like. Are we going to have enough fans there ? Will the Jamaicans outnumber the Canadians ?

[BrennanFan]

not everyone has become aware that we are a much improved side in the region.

even LESS people know how wildly Jamaica has improved in the past year or so. Their FA has gotten behind them 1000% after their Caribbean Cup fiasco and they have really turned a corner. They have 3 EPL quality guys and the rest are able CCC guys including one of the leagues top scorers. Not to mention Rene Simoes has forgotten more about coaching than Dale Mitchell knows right now.

Its simple: our players need to step up and reach a new level. They have to play better than they've ever played. The same old Gold Cup/Costa Rica Friendly/Brazil friendly quality and effort just isnt going to cut it in August.

[Alex]

LOL Duane, your awesome. They say we have 3 good players and the rest average. You can say the same thing about Jamaica. Another guy said we lack ball control? Guys like Xausa, Bircham and Corazzin from 3-8 years ago are gone.

[Keegan]

quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan

Its simple: our players need to step up and reach a new level. They have to play better than they've ever played. The same old Gold Cup/Costa Rica Friendly/Brazil friendly quality and effort just isnt going to cut it in August.

If we play like we did in any of those games you mentioned we will beat them. An effort worthy of beating Brazil will handle Jamaica

[Keegan]

They keep talking trash haha

comparing their players level of play to ours. Jamaica is the weakest team in the group, they don't want to accept it lol.

Lets compare

Nsaliwa AEK Athens Greek League/Champions League

Stalteri Fulham EPL

Atiba Hutchinson FC Copenhagen/Champions League quality team

Klukowski Brugges/Champions League/UEFA yet again

Hirschfeld Cluj/Champions league YET AGAIN

McKenna Bundesliga

Edgar EPL

Friend Bundesliga

Imhof Bundesliga

De Guzman La Liga

.... and the list goes on

On their forum they are playing the paper game.

Our players are top flight European players. They have a couple EPL players but mostly CCC, LEAGUE ONE AND LEAGUE TWO players. Oh and a couple average MLS players in Richards and Marshall. Along with some Jamaican League players (what is that lower USL level?)

One poster called De Rosario an average MLS player. Oh, how could we forget their dominant MLS players in Dane Richards and Marshall. Both garbage.

A nice quote which shows the intelligence level on their board:

"As for DeRosario (or whatever his name is)... Very good player, but you see me now... Is all a man like Evan Taylor me a put pon him... Taylor young, fit, and energetic and him want to keep a spot on the team... So if Rene say to him, "Evan... I want you to stick to DeRossario like glue"... Trust me, DeRossario WILL BE MARKED OUT forever by Evan..."

So I know what we should do next time we face a big team like Brazil. We should have just told Serioux or Hastings "Adrian... I want you to stick to Robinho like glue" and trust me, Robinho will be done. lol these guys are M-O-R-O-N-S

[Soju]

LOL I love their optimism.

[VPjr]

Jamaica is the team that worries me most in some ways because they are totally unpredictable. Their raw athleticism makes them a difficult match for our team. Canada is by far the more technically adept side but sometimes athleticism and luck can cancel out the main Canadian strengths.

That first game will be telling. I think we can beat them at home but getting a result away will be critical.

[rick10]

who cares what they have to say about canada. Obviously they are going to believe their team is better than canada because they are jamaican supporters and it is not like canada has some crazy players to be proud of . Aside from De guzman all of our other players are pretty much unknown to the average soccer fan. Also , it is not like canada is known for making it to the world cup or even playing well as a team. You gotta keep in mind that the only two teams that are going to get some respect in the concacaf region are united states and mexico because they shown some dominance in the last 8 years.

I believe canada can make the world cup because we are starting to play like a team and we have decent players that can make it happen however to the average fan (outside canada) we are still a beatable team home or away.

Let's wait and see , if we start winning some games we are going to earn the respect we deserve , we can not ask for respect from other teams when we haven't earn it yet

[Gordon]

Its called the Group of Death for a reason...there are no weak teams. While the rankings might suggest that Jamaica is the weakest link, they have some decent players are are quite capable. I think that any combination can emerge from this group. Mexico, on paper, is the strongest, but I think beatable. We should stop ceeding one spot to them IMO. As for the Jamaican fans, I've seen nothing on that thread that isn't equivalent to what many of us are writing here.

[Keegan]

Their keepers are VERY weak. Donovan Ricketts plays in League TWO, that would be like our starting keeper being Simon Rayner.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

Its called the Group of Death for a reason...there are no weak teams. While the rankings might suggest that Jamaica is the weakest link, they have some decent players are are quite capable. I think that any combination can emerge from this group. Mexico, on paper, is the strongest, but I think beatable. We should stop ceeding one spot to them IMO. As for the Jamaican fans, I've seen nothing on that thread that isn't equivalent to what many of us are writing here.

I don't disagree. I've essentially been arguing with them to get them to acknowledge the mere possibility that they may lose to us. It isn't going well.

[Juby]

they just need a reality check, they seem to honestly think (like god knows how many people around the world) that the EPL is the greatest league in the history of man. They don't seem to realize that the best player on Depor probably wouldn't be caught dead on any EPL team but the big 4, whereas there are a few completely world class players on every la liga team (even going down to zaragoza now in segunda). Just picture in your mind a series between Man U, Zaragoza, Murcia and Levante, and then picture Real Madrid, derby, birmingham and reading, one is at the level of the UEFA cup, the other is alot more like a friendly tournament put on in the summer by a rich country without a decent local soccer league where the winning team gets like 15 million. It's doubtful whether more than 1 or 2 players getting relegated in England could compete at the highest level, there's at least 10 players getting relegated in spain that any EPL big 4 team would be lucky to have.

I think too many people have just accepted the EPL media onslaught as fact (ie popular = best) and think that having anybody in the EPL is just as good as having anybody in la liga or serie A, which I disagree with (unless of course they play with the big 4in england)

[Joe MacCarthy]

quote:Originally posted by GordonI've seen nothing on that thread that isn't equivalent to what many of us are writing here.

Then you must not be reading what I am. There aren't too many posts here totally dismissing their team. If there are they're from someone who hasn't been following Canadian soccer for over five minutes. Most everyone here is realistic enough and have seen all that can go wrong in the qualifiers.

I will say this, that this first game is vital. I would be putting all my eggs in one basket to win that game.

It's heartening to see the lack of knowledge at the Jamaica site. They say the only weakness they have is goaltending. Good gravy, if they think ours is good that doesn't say much for them. Historically our defenders and goaltending were our strengths, now they are our chief weakness.

[jahman]

Greetings all - longtime lurker with now finally a reason to actually post a comment.

I have read both boards (and Bigsoccer) and frankly you could slot in Jamaica for Canada and vice versa and you get the same fan noise, albeit us Jamaicans have been a bit more civil...some here I plan to just ignore - Keegan for example.

Posters here seem seem absolutely shocked that the Jamaican fans have not admitted that Canada is a "better team on paper"; and that the Jamaican fans are not respecting them - why should we may I ask? Some Canadian posters believe we are a dirty team...and thats based on? Frankly I love the fact that no one rates us, you wont hear me whine about it or even gloat if we get the result on August 20th. Its a long process that will be played out on the pitch.... no amount of bragging, analysis or begging for respect here will matter. Are we good enough to be one of the top 2 teams, of course we are - are the other 3 teams good enough to be one of the top 2, you bet. I think all would agree that the concacaf qualification process needs to be revamped...just look at the other groups.

Come August 20th, the preassure is squarely on Canada as they are the home team and on paper the favorite ....you know, win at home, draw on the road [:I]

As for the Jamaican fans coming in for the game, I would say most are coming in from Jamaica and the US - the real hard core fans that is.

As a true sportsman, I wish Canada all the best.

[Juby]

quote:Originally posted by jahman

Posters here seem seem absolutely shocked that the Jamaican fans have not admitted that Canada is a "better team on paper"; and that the Jamaican fans are not respecting them - why should we may I ask?

We have more players at higher levels of play.

[Guest Ed]

Jahman is spot on. We have earned nothing in the way of respect in this confederation. Our gold cup win in 2000 was a long time ago. Good results in friendlies means sweet nothing in the long run. It is all about WCQ in this region and we have pooped the bed when the pressure is on in the last 2-3-4 cycles. It's time to step up, beat some teams in the semi and EARN some respect. No amount of trash-talking from either side will do it.

[Juby]

quote:Originally posted by jahman

As a true sportsman, I wish Canada all the best.

that's a good attitude I gotta say, and whoever wins, I just sincerly hope they win it well.

[jahman]

quote:Originally posted by Juby

We have more players at higher levels of play.

and what does that accomplish if they can't gel together?

[Juby]

quote:Originally posted by jahman

and what does that accomplish if they can't gel together?

true, but that's whats meant by 'on paper'(for example, Ottawa Senators have probably been the best Canadian hockey team for over 10 years...on paper), and you'd be hard pressed to prove before they game that either team gels together better then the other.

Team Chemistry is more of a consistency factor anyways, a talented team that doesn't work well together will always show their full potential sometimes, and it'd be smarter to look at from a 'what they could do' perspective to a 'what they usually do' cause if you follow the second you could very well get caught with your pants down.

[Joe MacCarthy]

quote:Originally posted by jahman

I have read both boards (and Bigsoccer) and frankly you could slot in Jamaica for Canada and vice versa and you get the same fan noise, albeit us Jamaicans have been a bit more civil

As a true sportsman, I wish Canada all the best.

Come on dude, don't try and guise the bull at the Jamaica forum as some polite civil banter. Most of the posts there are saying Jamaica will have no trouble at all and waltz in Canada and steal three points. That could very well happen but the Jamaicans seem oblivious to any other result.

Look at the BigSoccer thread on that round, no one is seeing Jamaica as doing well. Doesn't that make you think just a little bit?

I hold the majority of the posts at the Gae Boyz forum in the same contempt I do as the newbs who come on here and post crap like Canada 8 the Boys of St Vincent 0. UNREALISTIC!

You guys seems to want to ignore the player comparison and say come game day you guys will be the greatest team in Concacaf.

No one who has been here longer than five minutes is dismissing or dissing the Jamaican team. To be honest, most know very little about it and what lineup you will have. It would be nice if the Jamaicans admitted the same, that they know nothing of the present Canadian setup.

Allow me to give you a REALISTIC primer on the Canadian team. Good strikers, (likely best midfield in Concacaf) and relatively weak defenders and goalkeeping. I say the last part (weak) as expecting for us to be let down but the defense has bent but hasn't broken yet.

I've only seen one post that any neutral observer would see as realistic, where one guy said the Jamaican goaltending was not your strong point. Well, we're in the same boat, dude.

[jahman]

and where on the Boyz site do you see the equivalent of this?

Joe MacCarthy "Yes, the Gae Boyz are one whacky gun totin', ganja smokin' group of cats."

Again I am here to discuss football and perhaps give you some insights on our team. Whereas others may think we have a weakness in the goal, I think Ricketts is a very capable keeper and his detractors on the Boyz site have their own agenda - namely there are a couple of young goalkeepers in JA they beleive are more deserving of a spot than Ricketts. I think our front line lead by King and Fuller will be a handful for any team in the region. Burton, even at 30 is still pretty solid and Shelton's speed and skill will be a handful. Midfield - where I think may have some problem is actually rounding into shape under Simoes. Gardner has earned his ticket, plus we have a few young a few young players that will more than hold their own in this region. Overall team speed and size will be a problem for all teams in the region. Say what you will about Marshall, but he has proven himself many times over in the region. While by no stretch of the imagination our best defender, is a solid player and have always done well wearing the Jamaica shirt. Claude Davis, Rudi Austin, Goodison and Stewart will form a solid backline.

[Joe MacCarthy]

quote:Originally posted by jahman

and where on the Boyz site do you see the equivalent of this?

Joe MacCarthy "Yes, the Gae Boyz are one whacky gun totin', ganja smokin' group of cats."

Again I am here to discuss football and perhaps give you some insights on our team. Whereas others may think we have a weakness in the goal, I think Ricketts is a very capable keeper and his detractors on the Boyz site have their own agenda - namely there are a couple of young goalkeepers in JA they beleive are more deserving of a spot than Ricketts. I think our front line lead by King and Fuller will be a handful for any team in the region. Burton, even at 30 is still pretty solid and Shelton's speed and skill will be a handful. Midfield - where I think may have some problem is actually rounding into shape under Simoes. Gardner has earned his ticket, plus we have a few young a few young players that will more than hold their own in this region. Overall team speed and size will be a problem for all teams in the region. Say what you will about Marshall, but he has proven himself many times over in the region. While by no stretch of the imagination our best defender, is a solid player and have always done well wearing the Jamaica shirt. Claude Davis, Rudi Austin, Goodison and Stewart will form a solid backline.

I have absolutely no problem with what you just posted, realistic.

As for the first line, why should Jamaicans trash Canada. Half of them live in Toronto on welfare, commit most of the crime, (as a former police commissioner was admonished for quoting those statistics...darn political correctness) Hey, what's not to like

[jahman]

Since I dont live in TO...thats not really my problem, is it? Now if you really wanna discuss football we can continue that. As for social commentaries a face to face discussion is more appropriate.

[Joe MacCarthy]

quote:Originally posted by jahman

Since I dont live in TO...thats not really my problem, is it?

No, but seeing as you had brought it up, now you see where my quote came from. Now you know.

Love to carry on discussing your good Jamaica breakdown but I have to go to work. Until tomorrow.

Back to our regularly scheduled soccer discussion thread.

[Joe MacCarthy]

A couple posts from the Gae Boyz forum before I head off to the plant.

Guys we are not playing in the Azteca in Mexico. And they are not taking us to some sparsely populated place in Vancouver or Montreal we will be playing in Toronto.

Is Canada mad or what? They can´t seriously do that to themselves!!! Toronto is the #1 Jamaican population outside Jamaica. They say there are many white Canadians from Toronto that speak patois because it´s the English they know. So what kind of crowd do they expect to get there? Pro Canadian? Not! I have to see this to believe it, they can´t be that dumb!

Can't say I disagree with much there. However, Montreal, Vancouver sparcely populated? Refresh my memory, how big is Kingston?

I'm getting confused, this has yet to be confirmed right?. They are now looking at changing to Saputo for this game.